NRM rebranding - Railway Museum

[Peter Kazmierczak]

We could rebrand RMweb as the NRMweb, if the NRM doesn't want the "National" bit..........  

[dibber25]

Hang on...I thought we'd established that it is still the NRM, but in the interests of reducing confusion*, the logo will refer to it as just the "Railway Museum"

 

* Maybe that wasn't the reason.

 

So I'm now even more confused. Should I call it RM or NRM or RM,Y, when I next write about it? (CJL)

[Oldddudders]

We could rebrand RMweb as the NRMweb, if the NRM doesn't want the "National" bit..........

 

Yeah, but wot about us foreigners?

[GeoffAlan]

Call me a suspicious old beggar, if you must, but IMHO the re-brand looks like the start of a privatisation. I know Locomotion has had issues resulting in some disruption to the cafe and organisation in general, and suspect that that too is part of the preparation process. 

[caradoc]

We could rebrand RMweb as the NRMweb, if the NRM doesn't want the "National" bit..........

 

Along with a new corporate font for NRMWeb using 'vibrant colour gradients within the graphic language....to suggest change and progress'. Got to move with the times.

[kopite]

Just back in the USA after a quick trip to the UK to watch the Champions League semi-final and happened to see this thread. I was at the museum in York last Sunday, my first ever visit. The leaflet with the map of the museum that they hand out at the entrance was branded Railway Museum on the cover, but inside it still referred to it as the National Railway Museum. Having not been there before, I cannot compare it to what it was like previously. I enjoyed the visit but was a bit surprised that there weren’t more classic steam locomotives on display.

 

Here’s a few photos from my visit.

 

Edited May 3, 2018 by kopite

[wombatofludham]

Regarding the NRM, it would be good to see one or two examples of EE export designs in there, say a Portuguese 1400 at least?

Good idea as a lot of the younger generation have no idea we used to export railway kit. I'd nominate one of the 350hp diesel shunters which went to the Netherlands, Italy and other places. That would make for an interesting occasional side by side comparison. Something from Australia would be nice although I suspect all the UK built kit is now out of service and what survives is already in preservation, although the XPT is coming out of service soon, perhaps one of the power cars might be worth getting.

 

Does anyone know if any of the Taiwan Mk2 based BREL electric units still survive? One of those might be worth getting.

[Zomboid]

XPT power cars were built in Australia by ABB and Comeng, IIRC.

[E3109]

Good idea as a lot of the younger generation have no idea we used to export railway kit. I'd nominate one of the 350hp diesel shunters which went to the Netherlands, Italy and other places. That would make for an interesting occasional side by side comparison. Something from Australia would be nice although I suspect all the UK built kit is now out of service and what survives is already in preservation, although the XPT is coming out of service soon, perhaps one of the power cars might be worth getting.Does anyone know if any of the Taiwan Mk2 based BREL electric units still survive? One of those might be worth getting.

The BREL Sets were/are referred to as 'EMU100' and at least one has been retained for occasional specials. I think there may be more than one in existence though, these were iconic sets in their time and are still referred to as 'English Grandmothers'.

Presumably because they were the first EMUs there.

 

Use the EMU100 name as a search term, and plenty info comes up although naturally, much of it is in Chinese.

Some have definitely been scrapped (gory YouTube footage available!) and there is also an N 1:160 model available.

[E3109]

Forgot to mention too, the Taiwan EMU100s were built at York Works. 

[brack]

You forget the EMU preservation problem - they take up loads of space and the majority would rather see 5 or 6 locos than the same number of very similar carriages with a little cab on one end. I'm not arguing that multiple units shouldn't be preserved, but I can see which is the more sensible use of limited space.

The NRM have a difficulty in that either they need to expand continuously or stop adding to the national collection. I mean no disrespect to your personal preferences or suggestions but from a practical point of view I'm sure nobody is keen to add a 5 car DMU from the other side of the world when we haven't got a production HST set (or representative part of one) and they're giving away 100 year old steam locos.

[jjb1970]

At some point the heritage sector is going to be forced to face head on the reality that something being old and looks isn't the same as it being historically significant. If places like the NRM are about entertainment and offering a good day out then it makes perfect sense to preserve and display the stuff with star quality regardless of whether enthusiasts, historians and engineers consider them to be important. If it's about serious learning and ensuring items of historic significance are preserved then the stuff preserved may not be what we might like to see preserved.

[wombatofludham]

You forget the EMU preservation problem - they take up loads of space and the majority would rather see 5 or 6 locos than the same number of very similar carriages with a little cab on one end. I'm not arguing that multiple units shouldn't be preserved, but I can see which is the more sensible use of limited space.

The NRM have a difficulty in that either they need to expand continuously or stop adding to the national collection. I mean no disrespect to your personal preferences or suggestions but from a practical point of view I'm sure nobody is keen to add a 5 car DMU from the other side of the world when we haven't got a production HST set (or representative part of one) and they're giving away 100 year old steam locos.

Nobody is suggesting a complete set, just one dis-similar carriage with a cab would be enough to tell the story of our once large export industry. As for deciding what the heritage sector is about, that's fine for the private heritage sector but the NRM is an educational charity mainly funded by the State, therefore it should prioritise education over entertainment. Telling this and future generations that we exported railway kit is part of that, and telling them we continued to export stuff that didn't boil water right up until fairly recently should be part of that. The NRM could always dial back on some of the less important exhibits, loaning them out to other organisations or museums. Or alternatively, it could decide to become a State funded railway theme attraction but give up the lucrative tax breaks it gets from being a charity.

 

It really is that black and white. I'm involved with several local charities and the hoops you have to go through are quite onerous for volunteer led organisations so when I see the NRM straying into pure entertainment, such as with Flying Jockstrap, I do feel that they are sailing close to the wind in terms of their charitable status.

[phil-b259]

It really is that black and white. I'm involved with several local charities and the hoops you have to go through are quite onerous for volunteer led organisations so when I see the NRM straying into pure entertainment, such as with Flying Jockstrap, I do feel that they are sailing close to the wind in terms of their charitable status.

 

However please remember that the Science Museum Group still receive a largish grant from the Department of Media Culture & Sport - many Charities don't. Thus unlike those Charities you are involved with, there is considerable behind the scenes influence from Whitehall as to the overall direction the SMG is expected to take.

 

Its HMG that measure 'success' by the number of people through the doors and the amount of money raised by catering / retail opportunities.

 

Thus the NRM doesn't have much choice over whether it wants to be a 'pure' railway museum or not. A Theme park style experience to suit folk who are hooked on instant gratification is what Whitehall demands these days from Museums they fund - and the NRM is not immune.

[durham light infantry]

However please remember that the Science Museum Group still receive a largish grant from the Department of Media Culture & Sport - many Charities don't. Thus unlike those Charities you are involved with, there is considerable behind the scenes influence from Whitehall as to the overall direction the SMG is expected to take.

 

Its HMG that measure 'success' by the number of people through the doors and the amount of money raised by catering / retail opportunities.

 

Thus the NRM doesn't have much choice over whether it wants to be a 'pure' railway museum or not. A Theme park style experience to suit folk who are hooked on instant gratification is what Whitehall demands these days from Museums they fund - and the NRM is not immune.

Finally someone who understands. This is just scratching the surface of the truth, those practices which many on here villify and blame the NRM/SMG for are just them trying to meet those obligations and expectations.

Those working for the NRM/SMG have absolutely no say in the decision making process, and to see them being castigated and villified is just adding insult to injury.

 

I am now off to the Locomotion steam gala, to show some support.

 

Mike

[E3109]

At some point the heritage sector is going to be forced to face head on the reality that something being old and looks isn't the same as it being historically significant. If places like the NRM are about entertainment and offering a good day out then it makes perfect sense to preserve and display the stuff with star quality regardless of whether enthusiasts, historians and engineers consider them to be important. If it's about serious learning and ensuring items of historic significance are preserved then the stuff preserved may not be what we might like to see preserved.

 

Been googling stuff about the EMU100 sets in Taiwan again, the country is now setting up its own 'NRM' with, it seems, British (and German) assistance and know-how.

It's feasible they might get offered a driving car, unlikely and no suggestion of it, but certainly feasible.

If that ever happened it would look ace next to the Shinkansen...

[phil-b259]

Finally someone who understands. This is just scratching the surface of the truth, those practices which many on here villify and blame the NRM/SMG for are just them trying to meet those obligations and expectations.

Those working for the NRM/SMG have absolutely no say in the decision making process, and to see them being castigated and villified is just adding insult to injury.

 

I am now off to the Locomotion steam gala, to show some support.

 

Mike

 

Indeed

 

People should remember the dead hand of Whitehall still exists - all that the various privatisations and devolutions have done is provide an ideal smokescreen to deceive the general public / taxpayer as to who is really in charge.

 

The fact that most folk are too stupid to see through it is both depressing and worrying.

Edited May 5, 2018 by phil-b259

[brack]

Been googling stuff about the EMU100 sets in Taiwan again, the country is now setting up its own 'NRM' with, it seems, British (and German) assistance and know-how.

It's feasible they might get offered a driving car, unlikely and no suggestion of it, but certainly feasible.

If that ever happened it would look ace next to the Shinkansen...

Would they like a pacer (or 5) to display in their museum? Has anyone asked them yet?

[Steamport Southport]

I believe a Pacer is already on ze list.

 

 

 

 

 

​​Jason

[AMJ]

Swindon changed it's brand name some time ago to Steam, I can't see a rebranding making a difference other than putting money into marketing manager pockets.

 

They do seem to miss a lot of key areas in railway history

Industrial railways

Narrow gauge

Private locomotive builders

 

Just down the road in Leeds at the Middleton Railway we put some emphasis upon Leeds building more engines than any other place in England. Can't say the UK as various builder's in Glasgow made a greater number.

 

Coming soon will be the works list from the Sun Foundry, a builder bypassed by everyone else.

[Sir Hadyn]

Andrew, some of those subjects are actually covered already, and others will be in enhanced displays at York and Shildon too in the future.

 

Yes, the Senior Curator is an Industrial Railway Society member and author of a new book on narrow gauge locos...

Edited May 5, 2018 by Sir Hadyn

[rodent279]

Well, it's next to the train station.

Ahhh that is something that annoys and intrigues me. When did railway stations become train stations?

And while we're on the subject, when did trains start arriving into stations, and not at them?

When did stations become calling points?

And how is it possible for a train to do anything other than "arrive" at it's destination?

[Andy Y]

Don't start that old chestnut off again (oops, it was me ).

[G-BOAF]

Just found out about this rebranding. Seems stupid to drop the 'National' part in the logo. And on Facebook they have the audacity to claim that this means 'Railway' has 17% more of the title!!! What sort of idiots are these branding people thinking is their audience??? Previous NRM logos had class, like the nrm 'viaduct' logo (very 1980s/90s but inspired). Ok if you have to bring the logo into line with the 'family' brand, but don't drop the National!

 

I too am worried about privatisation, or at least the hiving off of the museum into a charitable trust independent of the state, at least in the first instance (with the smokescreen of 'a charity isn't really privatisation', freedome from the state to manage collection properly etc etc). This would remove state protection for the items, as well as meaning that the collection is no longer 'ours'. Even with the best of intentions, a private collection does not have the same protection that a state owned entity does – just look at what nearly happened to the Wedgewood collection a few years back. This is a National Collection of historic items which are representative of a technology that built the country and indeed the world. It is our DUTY as civilised society to ensure that history is preserved, by the nation (i.e. all of us!).

 

Still I guess some enthusiasts will be happy - a private entity may be amenable to someone dangling £££ to restore Lode Star (and paint it BR Black while they're at it), or the Q1 to be sold to Railway XYZ (after all, it’s just another Bulleid and the collection already has 1.5)... I'll be out protesting if that happens. And TBH I think more of a noise needs to be made about this logo/website change and the 'denationalisation' of the brand...

 

Maybe a strong statement/promise is needed from museum management/SMG/ministers that there is NO intention to change the national state-owned status of this museum..... Especially against the background of recent disposals (T3, 28xx) this is very worrying.

Edited May 6, 2018 by G-BOAF

[Dava]

Is there any evidence anywhere that any part of the Science Museum Group is being considered for "privatisation, or ...the hiving off of the museum into a charitable trust"?

 

If so where is it? The Science Museum has well established governance structures and their proceedings are public, so any such proposals would come into public view and concerns would presumably be raised.

 

The concern I have is that some of the plans and aspirations, such as York Central and a plan to build an exhibition hall at Wroughton, which I've mentioned earlier as having no public access to th reserve collections, are very costly and will require additional capital funding. If HM Treasury does not see these projects as essential, when for example it is having to gold-plate UK border and customs arrangements for Brexit, then they either won't happen or alternative investment sources, such as private sector partnerships, might be considered. But that is speculation on my part.

Edited May 6, 2018 by Dava