Class 66 in OO Gauge - New Announcement

[NewSiding]

31 minutes ago, truffy said:

Somewhere in this thread, I believe @newbryford said he was using a variant of UHU, and others have suggested PVA glue. Search this thread for 'glue', that might help.

 

many thanks truffy.

I've found suggestions for UHU, Evostick, PVA.

Have others had any success glueing axle boxes on with these?

 

[atom3624]

I used Araldite 2-pack.

 

The main problem is ensuring the alignment is absolutely as straight as possible - and better to slightly enlarge the hole to limit the possibilities of it happening again.

 

There is little 'purchase' on the axle stub, so ensure the axle is perfectly clean, and the inside of the AB cleaned of residue, whilst not enlarging - could end up offset.

 

Al.

Edited June 18, 2020 by atom3624

[atom3624]

@Dicky L what lets the video down is there's no exhaust fumes, nor permanent way personnel ...

 

Basically looks / sounds so good, you're looking for more details again!!

 

Excellent job, and still a fantastic locomotive by Hattons, warts and all.

 

Al.

[adb968008]

Maybe there’s an oppourtunity for Markits to step in here ?

a replacement axle, with screw thread and screw on covers ?

[Roy Langridge]

11 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Maybe there’s an oppourtunity for Markits to step in here ?

a replacement axle, with screw thread and screw on covers ?

Wouldn’t the covers then just unscrew as the loco ran? Ok, you could use some threadlock, but as they don’t have any slots or flats, getting it all apart for servicing could be an absolute PITA. 

 

Roy

Edited June 17, 2020 by Roy Langridge
Can't type on a mobile for toffee

[Class 158 productions]

Wonder if shaw plan might do some metal ones, just thinking out loud 

 

[Edna Clouds]

On 16/06/2020 at 12:08, NewSiding said:

 

many thanks truffy.

I've found suggestions for UHU, Evostick, PVA.

Have others had any success glueing axle boxes on with these?

 

I ended up using Araldite rapid. Absolutely clean axle ends and axle box cover and a carefully small blob of Araldite did the trick. Do them one at a time (yes you do waste a fair bit of glue!) and when the glue is starting to harden - trial and error helps - place the loco on the track and run it slowly for a couple of turns of the wheel. This centres the axle box in the loco's running position. Also, put the glue blob on the axle, not the axlebox so none gets on the bogie frame. It's a slow process but it works and when you've got your specs on and you look closely, the rotation of the axleboxes is a dream and brings on a warm smile! Go for it.

[adb968008]

8 hours ago, Roy Langridge said:

Wouldn’t the covers then just unscrew as the loco ran? Ok, you could use some threadlock, but as they don’t have any slots or flats, getting it all apart for servicing could be an absolute PITA. 

 

Roy

Conrods don't routinely unlock on steam locos so I don't see why this would be any different.

 

dont over engineer the solution, keep it simple.

Edited June 17, 2020 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

4 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Conrods don't routinely unlock on steam locos so I don't see why this would be any different.

 

<deleted> Thinking how to say what I want to say better!

Roy

Edited June 17, 2020 by Roy Langridge
Edit - didn't explain well

[adb968008]

3 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Conrods don't get much of a rotational force, they spend as much time going clockwise as anticlockwise on every rotation.

Roy

66 wheels don't turn ?
 

Steam loco wheels definitely do rotate on their axles !
The Markits/Romford example are both wheels are screwed  the axle and the Crankpin Pin into the wheel... for decades.

 

The screws on rtr steam are just restraining the rods but are screwed into the wheel, not the connecting rod.. they just stop the rod coming off, which is the same purpose as a screw on cap.. be it on a bottle, jar or in this case a loco axle.

 

As I said don't read too much into it.

 

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

66 wheels don't turn ?
 

Steam loco wheels rotate too !

The screws restraining the rods are screwed into the wheel, not the connecting rod.. they just stop the rod coming off, which is the same purpose as a screw on cap.. be it on a bottle, jar or in this case a loco axle

 

Yep, I didn't explain well, hence my edit. I know what I want to say, just not how

 

Trying better:

The difference with a conrod is it is a crank, not in the centre of a wheel. On a 66, when a loco is running forward, all the forces on the threaded ablebox end would be in one direction  - clockwise on one side, anticlockwise on the other.

 

On a crank, the forces act in different directions on each rotation. Google crank forces.

 

Roy

Edited June 17, 2020 by Roy Langridge

[adb968008]

4 minutes ago, Roy Langridge said:

 

Yep, I didn't explain well, hence my edit. I know what I want to say, just not how

my thought is basically like a good old fashioned nut and bolt.... Axle with the bolt thread at each end, caps as the nuts.

 

Markits make a really nice tool for tightening round pins into a rod thats barely noticeable, hence why them.

Edited June 17, 2020 by adb968008

[Roy Langridge]

5 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

my thought is basically like a good old fashioned nut and bolt.... Axle with the bolt thread, cap as the nut.

 

Markits make a really nice tool for tightening round pins into a rod thats barely noticeable, hence why them.

 

Which goes back to what I said earlier, threadlock may be needed, which is often recommended for model loco crankpins. Removing crankpins without a slot or head is a pain if they are threadlocked.

 

Roy

[atom3624]

For such small screws I'd be reluctant to use threadlock, unless absolutely necessary - I've used various grades - blue / temporary hold, red / semi-permanent, green/orange / don't think about removal - with largescale R/Control cars and trucks.

I've snapped plenty up to M3. M4 and above, it's more relevant - normally hardened steel bolt into alloy / steel bulkheads, etc.

 

At the very most, a little touch of blue, and then you'll have to ensure the tools fit precisely, sometimes breaking down with heat to remove ... not ideal.

It works brilliantly in the right circumstances.

 

Al.

[TomScrut]

My thought was why not have a wheelset with some sort of indexing shape in the end of it, such as a square? Then have the covers as a push fit into the bogie outer frame, the lengths of both the axle end and the cover set up with sufficient overlap and gap to enable the cover to stay clipped in the bogie frame when cornering. The tolerance between the axle and bogie frame to be taken care of by tolerancing the indexed shape accordingly, although too much tolerance would mean the wheels would turn before the cover.

 

This is more if I was designing from scratch than a retrofit BTW

Edited June 17, 2020 by TomScrut

[adb968008]

17 hours ago, TomScrut said:

My thought was why not have a wheelset with some sort of indexing shape in the end of it, such as a square? Then have the covers as a push fit into the bogie outer frame, the lengths of both the axle end and the cover set up with sufficient overlap and gap to enable the cover to stay clipped in the bogie frame when cornering. The tolerance between the axle and bogie frame to be taken care of by tolerancing the indexed shape accordingly, although too much tolerance would mean the wheels would turn before the cover.

 

This is more if I was designing from scratch than a retrofit BTW

i might be wrong, but I think Kader has a patent on that, in several shapes.

 

it was used for ease of quartering of steam loco wheels onto plastic axles for much of the 1990’s, spares of which are harder to come by, and legitimate 3rd parties haven't produced substitutes.

 

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by adb968008

[Sir TophamHatt]

Are there detailed instructions how to remove the bogie cover? - found the video:

 

Just received my replacement so gonna try absolutely everything to try and get it working properly.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Sir TophamHatt

[newbryford]

9 hours ago, adb968008 said:

i might be wrong, but I think Kader has a patent on that, in several shapes.

 

it was used for ease of quartering of steam loco wheels onto plastic axles for much of the 1990’s, spares of which are harder to come by, and legitimate 3rd parties haven't produced substitutes.

 

 

 

Maybe part of the reason that they are hard to come by is that (shaped) plastic axles with metal wheels isn't a brilliant solution.

 

With respect to quartering.

D shaped axle ends were used by K's (Keyser) for their kitbuilt stuff. I never had a set that worked well.

Romford (now Markits) used square ends in the 70s (and have done ever since). No problem with these as they are metal.

Likewise - Slaters use square ends on their O gauge loco wheels

 

[rob D2]

8 hours ago, Sir TophamHatt said:

Are there detailed instructions how to remove the bogie cover? - found the video:

 

Just received my replacement so gonna try absolutely everything to try and get it working properly.

I’m not an engineer, but if I was, I may spit my tea at at the way those axles/ covers are supposed to work, but you seem to have found a solution .

[YesTor]

 

10 hours ago, adb968008 said:

i might be wrong, but I think Kader has a patent on that, in several shapes.

 

it was used for ease of quartering of steam loco wheels onto plastic axles

 

1 hour ago, newbryford said:

Maybe part of the reason that they are hard to come by is that (shaped) plastic axles with metal wheels isn't a brilliant solution.

 

Agreed, having recently acquired several models that utilise metal wheels on plastic axles.  And all of them wobble like the proverbial pregnant duck.  Disaster.

 

Edited June 18, 2020 by YesTor

[adb968008]

Why is everyone quoting me on the shaped axles.

i wasnt endorsing it, I agree it wasnt the best.

I was just pointing out why it may not be used.

 

by all means keep ripping apart my previous suggestion on screw threaded axles, I think it has more mileage and i’m more inclined to defend that idea in this some what destructively themed thread.

it would be nice to see some more constructive counter proposals, though I can see why those with such ideas might not want to raise their heads above the parapets, theres more germs flying than in a covid sneeze.

 

ive had my 3 class 66’s 3-4 months now, they work fine, nothing's fallen off, nothings growing on, they arent rolling over to be tickled.. they just seem to work ok... perhaps I can post a picture and let folks rip em apart for me, tell me what i’m missing and why Ive wasted £450 ?

Edited June 18, 2020 by adb968008

[TomScrut]

3 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Why is everyone quoting me on the shaped axles.

i wasnt endorsing it, I agree it wasnt the best.

I was just pointing out why it may not be used.

 

Not sure as it was me who suggested it. Although it has been misinterpreted I think as I was suggesting the axle was metal, with the wheels on it, and the end caps were plastic in a similar manner to they are now with only the way they are held in place and interface with the axle being different. And simply the end of the metal axle being shaped to key against the axle box cover. A *completely* different situation to trying to drive the loco with it which it sounds like people don't like the idea of. The only torque these would be subjected to would be the frictional losses in the external bogie body.

 

I suggested my idea (as opposed to your idea that may work with threadlock) to also get rid of the flaw these have in that the covers move from side to side with the wheels as they go round corners.

[YesTor]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Why is everyone quoting me on the shaped axles. 

 

by all means keep ripping apart my previous suggestion on screw threaded axles...

it would be nice to see some more constructive counter proposals, though I can see why those with such ideas might not want to raise their heads above the parapets, theres more germs flying than in a covid sneeze. 

 

Umm, certainly not "ripping apart" anyone's ideas here, merely stating that I own a few models with plastic axles that waddle like ducks.  I don't think I mentioned screw-threaded axles?   Maybe a misinterpretation of the tone behind the messages perhaps?  

 

A tad confused... 

 

Best

Al

Edited June 19, 2020 by YesTor

[adb968008]

Fair enough,

it just feels theres a desire to rip these to pieces.

 

A cap falling off is unfortunate, but many more models have had far worse in history, but it seems to be magnified to a huge issue.

Ive not had the issue myself, but creative solutions, rather than hoping the manufacturer does it is really the only fix at this point, for those who have this issue at all..

 

[Class 158 productions]

The problem is, this model was hyped up to be class leading. The terrible qc and I believe some livery and shape errors have caused anger. The axlebox issue is probably the smallest problem, still no word if the next batch will actually be assembled with glue by hattons