plans to reopen the colne line (manchester to Skipton)

[sir douglas]

though a local group has been campaigning for 20 years, drax powerstation is now proposing the reopening to make the journey time shorter for their biomass trains from Liverpool docks. it was on BBC look north just now but i cant find an online article to link to

[newbryford]

Mentioned back in March...….

https://www.insidermedia.com/insider/yorkshire/drax-power-chief-exec-emphasises-powerhouse-benefits

 

The group campaigning for the line is SELRAP

http://selrap.org.uk/

 

Chers,

Mick

[4630]

Without significant investment in infrastructure elsewhere along the route between Skipton and Leeds, it's doubtful that journey times for Drax's biomass trains would be much shorter than the current route, in my humble opinion.

 

There's an intensive day-time electric service along the Aire Valley line from Leeds to Skipton/Ilkley/Bradford Forster Square.  Freight is mostly aggregate (and returning empties) from Rylstone/Arcow/Ribblehead, but is regular and has to be pathed with the existing passenger service.

 

And then at Leeds, the choice will be sending biomass trains through an already near capacity Leeds station*, or sending them over the flat crossings, across the entire western approach to the station, at the Whitehall Junctions.  I can't see that one being well received by existing train operating companies or Network Rail.

 

Personally, I think Drax has just leapt on to the passing 'lets re-open Colne-Skipton' bandwagon.

 

I guess Peel Ports probably put in a 'killer bid' to get the biomass delivered via Liverpool and then sent by rail over the Pennines.  I've always thought that the east coast ports, particularly Hull and Immingham which already serve Drax, would have been far more efficient economically and logistically.

 

 

 

 

* currently with a couple of exceptions, freight is a rarity through Leeds station.

[mikejames]

there was something about thisback in febuary

 

I hope this link works

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-42930678

 

mike j

[ess1uk]

I saw that on look north too

Should reopen even if Drax don’t use it

Edited July 23, 2018 by ess1uk

[LBRJ]

I saw that on look north too

Should reopen even if Drax don’t use it

 

Having caught the bus from Keighley (or Steeton &Silsden) to Burnley quite a few times in the past I am inclined to agree with you that the train would be a far better option.

[Joseph_Pestell]

Links on the SELRAP site to various magazine articles.

 

Reading the one in Railway Magazine, estimated cost to rebuild this 11 miles of railway: £100M. Really!? OK, if Drax Power's trains are involved, it has to be built to a full spec, but with an existing solum, should it really cost so much? Or are our political class really so incapable of getting value for money?

 

Edit to add: We have lads from Portishead staying with us this week. That's another rail project which seems impossible to deliver because of excessive costs.

Edited July 24, 2018 by Joseph_Pestell

[newbryford]

Links on the SELRAP site to various magazine articles.

 

Reading the one in Railway Magazine, estimated cost to rebuild this 11 miles of railway: £100M. Really!? OK, if Drax Power's trains are involved, it has to be built to a full spec, but with an existing solum, should it really cost so much? Or are our political class really so incapable of getting value for money?

 

Edit to add: We have lads from Portishead staying with us this week. That's another rail project which seems impossible to deliver because of excessive costs.

 

A large portion of the £100M is probably in legal fees and compensation for land owners...….

[62613]

A fair number of bridges to reinstate, particularly where the line of route crosses the Colne-Skipton road

[phil-b259]

A large portion of the £100M is probably in legal fees and compensation for land owners...….

 

Not so.

 

Have a look at the rebuilt Waverley line and you will notice an awful lot of gibbon baskets / regraded embankments etc.

 

Basically the Victorians were not very good at building stable earthworks - the slopes are FAR too steep in 99% of cases to guarantee to be stable. Modern railway construction uses the same standards as motorways - which (apart from where widening works have eaten into them) have nice gentle slopes that don't slip.

 

New railways - which is what the Waverley route, the Airdrie - Bathgate and the Skipton - Colne line if reopening ever comes to pass are similarly required to be built with nice gentle slopes. That means either a large increase in land take well outside the original boundaries or extensive civils to artificiality reduce the slope through Gibbon baskets and extra fill etc.

 

Equally new level crossings are effectively BANNED on the national Railway network (be they footpaths or vehicular crossings) - any reopening of lines will require the construction of disabled friendly bridges to replace them.

 

Finally staff safety is a big consideration now - again the Victorian standards do not allow for staff to stand at least 6ft6' away from the nearest running rail on many embankments / in many cuttings due to the narrowness of the trackbed (unless it has been singled).

Edited July 24, 2018 by phil-b259

[Legend]

Not so.

 

Have a look at the rebuilt Waverley line and you will notice an awful lot of gibbon baskets / regraded embankments etc.

 

Basically the Victorians were not very good at building stable earthworks - the slopes are FAR too steep in 99% of cases to guarantee to be stable. Modern railway construction uses the same standards as motorways - which (apart from where widening works have eaten into them) have nice gentle slopes that don't slip.

 

New railways - which is what the Waverley route, the Airdrie - Bathgate and the Skipton - Colne line if reopening ever comes to pass are similarly required to be built with nice gentle slopes. That means either a large increase in land take well outside the original boundaries or extensive civils to artificiality reduce the slope through Gibbon baskets and extra fill etc.

 

Equally new level crossings are effectively BANNED on the national Railway network (be they footpaths or vehicular crossings) - any reopening of lines will require the construction of disabled friendly bridges to replace them.

 

Finally staff safety is a big consideration now - again the Victorian standards do not allow for staff to stand at least 6ft6' away from the nearest running rail on many embankments / in many cuttings due to the narrowness of the trackbed (unless it has been singled).

 

Interesting. Is a "Gibbon basket" the official term ?  I've often wondered about the use of these in modern constructions . Now I know . But won't the metal of the basket eventually rust/ rot away leaving the stones loose?

[phil-b259]

But won't the metal of the basket eventually rust/ rot away leaving the stones loose?

 

Not if the correct grade / type of metal is used.

[RFS]

Thought the official name was "Gabion baskets" - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabion

[phil-b259]

Thought the official name was "Gabion baskets" - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gabion

 

Yup thats what I meant

[The Stationmaster]

Not if the correct grade / type of metal is used.

 

All the gabions I have come across, including the ones I used in my back garden, use galvanised components and are usually sold with long life guarantees.  

 

Gabions have been used on a number of embankment rebuilds which NR have carried out on various parts of the former WR - one of their most useful and long overdue pieces of work which has largely gone unreported in the enthusiast media.  Whether it's better over the longer term than the WR method of injecting concrete to stabilise embankments has yet to be proven but it definitely seewms to have stopped bank slips in some past notorious spots for that problem.

[96701]

I was on the last service train from Skipton to Colne and somewhere I have the last ticket sold for a Skipton to Colne journey. I also have a closure notice.

 

[Oldddudders]

Gibbon baskets sound like something from Bill Oddie....

[mark axlecounter]

The duel carriage way at the end of Colne station will eat a lot of money. They were talks of the road is being lowered and the track raised for a new under line bride, Then their are bridges that need repairs and 2-3 needing rebuilding and new steel decks. But when the transport minister turns up on a wet clod Saturday morning there is something brewing (he wasn't there for the scenery). 

 

Mark

[rovex]

No he was there for the photo op. Or am I just an old cynic.

[jonny777]

I do hope this will include the branch to Barnoldswick.....

[96701]

I do hope this will include the branch to Barnoldswick.....

I think there will be 2 hopes of that. Unfortunately one is Bob and the other is none. Sadly there is little hope of opening the Colne to Skipton being as how it closed because it was so little used and the line from Gannow Jcn to Colne is now single. Where would any extra trains pass?

[mark axlecounter]

They were thinking of double lining it again. The best way is having loops in it and bring back brierfield and chaffers box so I can build more loco kits          

[mikejames]

at first sight a much cheaper solution which covers some of the benifits

of this proposal might be to build a south west to south east conection

at hellifield. (effectively blackburn to skipton)

I would think it covers the 'though' traffic but not the local benefits.

 

mike j

[mark axlecounter]

That would cost more because if you put a triangle around hellifield you have to resignal the boxes at horrocksford, hellifield and York iecc. Replace points with new type (we still have LMS motor ones here) new signals at hellifield and at horrocksford.

Plus where will I build my models  

[mark axlecounter]

Northern cant even run a normal service to clitheroe let alone hellifield