Hornby dublo

[Wolseley]

19 hours ago, Great Eastern said:

 

Hi Wolseley,

I know EXACTLY what you mean !!!!!!!   I started by doing a Dublo Class 20 with a yellow panel, then before I knew it  I'd done every permutation of green cab roof / grey cab roof / with and without yellow panels then full yellow ends..................   then there's the carriage roundel ones instead of BR red lion logo.............

 

GE

 

As well as the streamliners, I have 17 non-streamlined ones, all of them slightly different from eachother.  I also have enough bits to put together one more streamliner.  I don't know if I will add any more to the total, but I'm not planning on having 38 of them........

 

Jim

[Wolseley]

6 hours ago, Wolseley said:

Well, I spotted what I thought were four rusty Dublo coaches on eBay and I put in a bid for them at the starting price of $40.00 (£23.40) and was the only bidder.  I was planning to dismantle them to get some spare bogies and maybe some other parts, but was somewhat surprised when they arrived today to find that only one of them was rusty and the rest just need a clean up and replacement couplings.

 

They are:

BR maroon D20 Restaurant Car (broken couplings to be replaced)

Chocolate and Cream Superdetail Composite (needs new couplings - has been fitted with Tri-ang ones)

BR Maroon Superdetail Full Brake (needs one coupling replaced)

BR Maroon Suburban Brake 3rd (the only one rusty enough to use for parts)

 

A rather unexpected result........

 

After a clean up:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

And the one that's going to donate its bogies to a future project:

 

 

 

[Pak75]

On 04/08/2022 at 05:37, Il Grifone said:

Sorting through some stuff (I have been told to clear up my junk??????????????????) I came across one of my Dublo girder bridges, The paintwork is a bit rough weathered and it's held together with some nuts and bolts. (These are metric and obviously non-original.) IIRC the green* deck was originally riveted, but the cross girder is held by nuts and bolts (presumably Meccano). Can anyone confirm?

 

Hi

Finally accessed RMweb with iPad.

My girder bridge has only rivets, I’m afraid inc cross beam.

[Il Grifone]

Thanks! It's rather as I expected, but mine will keep its nuts and bolts. Maybe i'll paint the ones on the girder orange though. It depends how well I can match the orange. (I suppose it's supposed to look attractive, rather than approximate red oxide!)

[Pak75]

Hi 

I presume orange is same psychedelic colour used on HD roofs and turntable? I recall seeing somewhere on this site a thread about matching the orange........

Cheers

[Wolseley]

8 hours ago, Pak75 said:

Hi 

I presume orange is same psychedelic colour used on HD roofs and turntable? I recall seeing somewhere on this site a thread about matching the orange........

Cheers

 

Tamiya "Orange" (TS12) is a near perfect match.  I used it, together with a spray can of Tamiya "Light Sand" (TS46) when respraying my station buildings and signal box.  Marginally brighter than the Dublo shade of orange, but that was rather variable anyway.

 

 

[Wolseley]

My latest purchase is a Dublo EMU trailer car.  It was unboxed and with a slightly damaged underframe, so it was affordable.  Finding a motor coach at a price I'm willing to pay might prove to be a bit more of a challenge though......

 

[SR71]

@Il Grifone I remember seeing HD bridges in packaging that had been sold as kits but I can't find any reference to this online. Would have been at a swap meet in the 90's. Possibly as a way of clearing of old stock post '63? These were nut and bolt assembly.

 

@Il Grifone  & @Wolseley thanks for your feedback and sorry it's taken me so long to acknowledge. I had included the quaters, eigths etc. to allow the correct spacing for outer cross overs, but of course I cropped those off the plan I posted like an idiot didn't I?!

 

Re-drawn below to show what I had intended. The inner loop arrangement is taken off a Dublo plan but for some reason I can't get the inner inner to connect in the centre this morning.

 

 

I had always been told (and remember from the dim past) that while halves and quarters were true, eigths were not actaullay a measured eigth. I'd tested this in AnyRail this morning.

 

 

The full straights in the middle of the corner is what is messing up my geometry I think but that was a main characteristic of the original plan I'm upgrading.

 

[Il Grifone]

15 hours ago, Pak75 said:

Hi 

I presume orange is same psychedelic colour used on HD roofs and turntable? I recall seeing somewhere on this site a thread about matching the orange........

Cheers

 

That's the one!

My theory is Meccano Ltd. were offered a job lot of this awful colour in the forties....

 

5 hours ago, SR71 said:

@Il Grifone I remember seeing HD bridges in packaging that had been sold as kits but I can't find any reference to this online. Would have been at a swap meet in the 90's. Possibly as a way of clearing of old stock post '63? These were nut and bolt assembly.

 

@Il Grifone  & @Wolseley thanks for your feedback and sorry it's taken me so long to acknowledge. I had included the quaters, eigths etc. to allow the correct spacing for outer cross overs, but of course I cropped those off the plan I posted like an idiot didn't I?!

 

Re-drawn below to show what I had intended. The inner loop arrangement is taken off a Dublo plan but for some reason I can't get the inner inner to connect in the centre this morning.

 

 

I had always been told (and remember from the dim past) that while halves and quarters were true, eigths were not actaullay a measured eigth. I'd tested this in AnyRail this morning.

 

 

The full straights in the middle of the corner is what is messing up my geometry I think but that was a main characteristic of the original plan I'm upgrading.

 

 

Possibly the later plastic version of the bridge? Tri-ang would have wanted to clear these out to promote sales of their own bridges.

 

The short straight is not an eighth, but the correct length to make up the gap in a reverse loop. I could work it out, but the brain is on strike (just before lunchtime!). All the Dublo track sections stem from the 15 inch radius 45 degree curved rail. A 30 degree curve is a non-starter in Dublo geometry. (Märklin and Formo have 30 degree curves, but present other problems (not least supply!).

 

EDIT

 

Browsing the 'net, I found this (sorry heretical Non-RMweb site):

https://uk.Hornby.com/community/forum/curves-geometry-for-the-older-3-rail-track?p=1%2F&ccm_paging_p=1&ccm_order_by=&ccm_order_by_direction=

 

There's a list of the dimensions (unchecked) of Dublo track and a couple of unanswered queries:

 

1. The track with red under the base is (some is black like Dublo)* and 2. Märklin will join to Dublo. The former has a wider base than Dublo, but otherwise joins perfectly and the latter has a higher base which presents problems. The three rail Märklin (at least the pieces I have) is 16mm gauge, which I find is a bit tight for Dublo wheels, especially the Duchesses. Both have steel rail (again at least mine do) which is definitely inferior. Apart from the Korean war period**, Dublo always used brass, though pre-war it was not plated.

* It's rather rare as Formo was only sold for a short period in the 50s and Farish products were not that readily available anyway.

** My advice is to leave this in the stallholder's box, unless you really want a few bits for the sake of a complete collection.

 

Dublo large radius (17¼") is the same as Radius 2, but radius 1 is less than Dublo's standard 15". The blame here is Tri-ang Super4 which used Dublo's 8 to a circle geometry, but based it on large radius pointwork.

 

EDIT 2

 

A Dublo catalogue gives 1 5/16" for the short rail. (It also gives 11½" for the straight rail which IIRC are actually 11.48" but that is being pedantic!)

 

http://www.stagniweb.it/foto6.asp?File=Hornby&InizioI=1&RigheI=50&Col=5

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 2022 by Il Grifone

[Il Grifone]

I  finally did the maths!

The straight part of the point is given by 15 (radius) x sine 22½° (angle of curved section) which gives 15 x 0.38268 = 5.74025.

Hence the full straight rail is 11.48" long. The short rail is thus 30" (reverse curve) - 2 x 11.48 - 5.74"  = 1.30" = 1 5/16" (near enough!). The short rail is actually only 1/8 inch short of being an eighth rail.

 

A link here (sorry - the blurb is in Italian!)

http://www.stagniweb.it/foto6.asp?File=Hornby&InizioI=1&RigheI=50&Col=5

It is correct in that the A3 power control unit was 'molto costoso' (very expensive - £4/17/6d) and politely it doesn't mention the infamous hand with six fingers! (Perhaps it wasn't noticed?)

https://www.meccanoindex.co.uk/Cats/Hornby.php?id=1532598724

 

IIRC the power units were priced separately for tax reasons. If listed with the trains they would have been taxed at the 'luxury' 33% rate. (This sounds high, but unlike VAT it was charged on the wholesale price, which typically allowed a mark up of 50% for the catalogue price and retail price maintenance meant that was what you paid.) The government rips us off a lot more now!

 

The perspective effect on the catalogue cover is rather spoilt by the inclusion of the Dinky bus which is 5/32" to the foot (like the trains - Meccano Ltd did not believe in metric) alongside the other vehicles which, as stated, are nearer O scale

 

Incidently, the TPO unit does not need a separate supply, as long as you don't follow the Dublo instructions and put the push button switch in the return wiring. Ignore this nonsense and put the switch where it belongs in the supply wire (the insulated terminal) and the track base then provides the common return as it should.

Edited August 29, 2022 by Il Grifone

[roythebus1]

Mark-up margins were indeed 33.3% and 50%, I used to work in Patricks Toy Shop in Lillie Road Fulham before I eft school and as fullme job when I left at the age of 15 in 1967.

 

Trade price was say £10, add 50% is £15 selling price. Profit is therefore 33.3% of selling price. Those prices always included purchase tax and I haven't a clue what rate that was!

 

[Il Grifone]

AFAIK purchase tax on luxury goods was 35%, but tax levels have always have been subject to the whims of government.

VAT for example was initially 10% (including things that had been tax-free) but reduced to 8% as it produced "too much income". Following the 'invention'* of 'trickle down economics' aka 'reaganomics', it has crept up to 20% (22% in Italy).

 

* It has been the economics system throught history. It never worked before....

[Great Eastern]

Couple of pictures of one of my Dublo Class 20's  I mentioned earlier.  This was the first one I did (a few years ago now) with yellow panels and a full grey roof ; rather than with a green cab roof.  The donor was a bit tatty with a few damaged bits.

 

 

 

This was mainly done with Railmatch aerosols, but window frames were with a silver paintpen ;  I think this must have been about the first time I'd used one on a loco and since then I've continued to use it on all my loco repaints.  As long as they're an oil based paint they do seem pretty good, the acrylic paintpens don't seem to produce such a durable surface however (understandably), so I'm careful where I use them. 

 

GE

 

EDIT    Thanks for the likes guys, much appreciated.

I won't bore you with too many variations, but here's another one I did with full yellow ends.

 

 

Also I filled in the ghastly screw hole in the top and put a nut in there. The screw now goes in from up underneath; it should be noted however that this has to be shorter than the normal screw, otherwise it'll simply shove the filler out of the top of the roof. I found it easier to test the screw length after I'd stuck the nut in, but before I put the filler in. In retrospect I think that in future I might just cut a disc of plasticard, paint it grey and curve to fit the roof profile and attach it with a tiny bit of Blutac, it would be easier, plus it would use the standard screw.

GE

Edited September 7, 2022 by Great Eastern

[Wolseley]

All the LMS and BR Dublo coaches with metal roofs, other than some early LMS ones that had a slightly metallic gunmetal grey finish, had roofs that were finished in a mid grey colour.  I have noticed a few of mine have a slight greenish tinge to them, but whether this is due to age or weathering or if the shade was a bit variable between batches, I don't know.  I had to repaint the roofs on some of my LMS coaches, and I found that Tamiya TS-32, Haze Grey was a near perfect match.  I gave the roofs a spray with gloss clear afterwards, to give them a finish similar to the original.  

 

The LMS coaches in the photograph below have all had their roofs resprayed, while the two Royal Mail coaches on the track behind them have their original factory finishes.  You can see the slight difference in the grey on the TPO vehicles, slight, but noticeable.

 

 

Jim

[Great Eastern]

Hi Wolseley,

Yes you're right, I've noticed that greenish tinge, like you I thought it was probably age / paint variations, but also I suspect that an interaction with the metal may have some affect too.  Also some Dublo colours were a bit inaccurate.  Here's one of the tatty 20's I used above; the roof colour is much too green of course.

 

 

Interesting to note the Tamiya colour, as you say pretty close.

GE

Edited September 7, 2022 by Great Eastern

[cctransuk]

35 minutes ago, Great Eastern said:

...... some Dublo colours were a bit inaccurate.  Here's one of the tatty 20's I used above; the roof colour is much too green of course.

 

 

 

Not sure that I would agree - my recollection of BR diesel loco roof grey is of a greenish shade.

 

The Dublo EE Type 1 was contemporary with the prototype, and there was no suggestion at the time of a discrepency.

 

In fact, Hornby Dublo had a reputation for accurately reproducing livery colours.

 

CJI.

[Great Eastern]

Hi CJI,

Certainly some Dublo colours were good, however some were clearly incorrect, eg  the Deltics had white around the windows not Dublo's light grey. 

 

Modern repaints of 20's in green (eg NRM) / quality colour pics from the time (eg Colour Rail) / modern RTR locos /  my memory of the roof colour, don't have quite such a green tinge to the roof as the Dublo one.

 

Is there a Railmatch / et al, colour that more accurately corresponds to the 20's roof colour that you could suggest please ?  

 

GE

[TerryD1471]

On 23/08/2022 at 15:32, Great Eastern said:

Here's a couple of pics of the problem, showing my more recent Margate King body compared to a Dublo Bristol Castle, ie with  1/2 inch  inline motor.  The longer King wheelbase inevitably requires longer coupling rods, repositioning of the cylinders etc, as I mentioned earlier the easiest solution is to use Margate wheels  / rods, but then it's not very Dublo.

 

 

Also there is another issue, I can't fit the body onto the chassis straight away as the motor extends into the cab, so the backhead would have to be cut away (like the Dublo Castles). With a new chassis the motor could conceivably be moved forward to drive the front axle, but then would be more visisble under the boiler as the Dublo motor assembly is so long. 

 

 

Also the steps and various bits under the cab need to be cut away as the Dublo chassis already has steps (or vice versa).

I've not tried a Lima body (simply as I don't happen to have one), but it's a good idea, it may be that the dimensions  have been fudged a bit and it might be possible to do something a bit different.

 

GE

 

It's a good thought but the King was a "non-standard" chassis. The Castle had the Swindon standard coupled wheelbase of 7' +7'9" (i.e. in 4 mm 28mm + 31 mm) whereas the King was 8' + 8'6" (32mm + 34mm) so there is a huge discrepancy between the two. Ironically, the better fit would have been the old Triang/Hornby Jinty chassis (which was incorrect), but which measured 31 mm + 33 mm. Yes, the driving wheels would have to be replaced but that would probably had to have been done anyway.

 

The other issue was that the Hornby Dublo Castle had an incorrect coupled chassis wheelbase anyway. They used a wheelbase of 29mm +29 mm which had been the (correct) basis of the Duchess and A4 chassis. I've no idea why Hornby Dublo went in that direction, because the chassis was newly tooled. The only common factor was that the coupling rods were the same dimensions. Was that a good enough reason to tool up an inaccurate chassis?

 

I ask the question because I'd like to know.

[Great Eastern]

Hi Terry D1471,

 

Thanks for the reply, yes you're quite right about the differential between King and Castle as well as the points about the inaccuracies of the Dublo chassis  (I made it circa 29+29).  Also the driving wheels aren't quite the right size either.  Plans I've got of the King show 8ft + 8ft 3", however, it may be that these plans aren't quite right, but whatever, your comments and conclusions are still correct.  I'm afraid I don't know the exact reason why Dublo did their Castle as they did, like you I'd noticed these things but put it down to costs and ease of production / the general accuracy of models of the times. 

GE

[Wolseley]

At the risk of sounding heretical to those of you of GWR persuasion, I have thought of having a representation of a King by fitting a King bogie to a Dublo Bristol Castle.  After all, all GWR 4-6-0s look pretty much the same anyway.......

[cctransuk]

8 hours ago, Great Eastern said:

Hi CJI,

Certainly some Dublo colours were good, however some were clearly incorrect, eg  the Deltics had white around the windows not Dublo's light grey. 

 

Modern repaints of 20's in green (eg NRM) / quality colour pics from the time (eg Colour Rail) / modern RTR locos /  my memory of the roof colour, don't have quite such a green tinge to the roof as the Dublo one.

 

Is there a Railmatch / et al, colour that more accurately corresponds to the 20's roof colour that you could suggest please ?  

 

GE

 

I use only Precision and Humbrol enamel paints.

 

For diesel loco rooves, I use Humbrol 66 or Precision 130 - both have a greenish tinge, but are darker than the Dublo colour. To my eye, this gives the effect of a work-stained roof.

 

CJI.

[cctransuk]

8 hours ago, Great Eastern said:

Certainly some Dublo colours were good, however some were clearly incorrect, eg  the Deltics had white around the windows not Dublo's light grey.

 

Were you aware that the Dublo Deltic was released BEFORE the prototype, and that the early models were plain BR green?

 

CJI.

[Great Eastern]

Yes thanks, I have examples of all the ones that Dublo released. The ones in the Deltic colours were released in July 62, the real ones entered service from Feb 61.

GE

[Pak75]

Hi there

Good discussion on HD colours. Anyone have a ‘custard’ cream match for three rail coaches?

Recently acquired a HD Silver King with plastic bogie wheels and nickel driving wheels finished in gloss green. 

Presumably a late HD innovation?

Also a pair of lovely old D11 BR coaches with silvered windows and only a few scratches.

A seperate  tender has some Mazak rot on chassis - can this be treated? I put some light oil on it which seems to have slowed it down...

Edited September 10, 2022 by Pak75
Upload difficulties

[sagaguy]

UK Ford Sahara beige,an auto paint dealer should be able to mix you a can.This is a Trix coach finished with it.

 

The tender in your pic is the wrong one,that`s a tender from a Duchess of Montrose.

 

                      Ray.

Edited September 10, 2022 by sagaguy