MarcD Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 GOG curve standards used to recommend a minimum of 6ft for branchlines and 4ft for industrial lines, because of this very issue. I have used Peco set track on my industrial layout and I have had a heap of issues even with short 4 wheel wagons and locos. Marc 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 11, 2023 Share Posted March 11, 2023 1 hour ago, MarcD said: GOG curve standards used to recommend a minimum of 6ft for branchlines and 4ft for industrial lines, because of this very issue. I have used Peco set track on my industrial layout and I have had a heap of issues even with short 4 wheel wagons and locos. Marc I don't know what the current G0G recommendation is, but the 1993 Standard recommended 48" for branch lines. MOROP in NEM11 recommend 960mm. Both of which are academic to me, because I use single link couplings and have had no problems at all on ETS 627mm points with anything remotely suitable. I have been running 4-wheel coaches foe several years without a problem. The issues with the Stroudley coaches are caused by the length of the buffers. They are in compression when coupled, even on a straight. So Setrack points might prove to be a problem, for example in a passing loop situation. I wouldn't like to put anybody off getting them though, they do look really good behind a Terrier. Michael Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fezza Posted March 12, 2023 Share Posted March 12, 2023 Do they run okay through standard Peco reverse curves? If the buffers are in compression even when coupled on a straight that sounds like a recipe for ongoing problems with buffer locking on any "normal" O gauge curvature. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 13, 2023 Share Posted March 13, 2023 Mainline coaches on Peco Setrack reverse curve. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) To illustrate my previous comments about buffer lock, Mainline coaches on a Lima 700mm reverse curve. Edited March 14, 2023 by goldfish Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 What happens on a 6ft reverse curve? Does this problem go away on the bigger curve? Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Sharp Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Even with the mainline stock with buffers you do get coupling shafts, two different lengths. I assume the shorter one fits the suburban bufferless stock so maybe the longer one will do the buffered version. There's also a cable link which won't be wanted until the electrically lit versions come out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 14, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2023 (edited) On 11/03/2023 at 09:59, MarcD said: Is this a problem with design or the diameter of the curve. Marc Mostly the S curve not the curvature itself. The Peco set track is far tighter than GOG recommended passenger radii so I’m not surprised you get buffer locking on this long stock. Designing it to run on such sharp reverse curves of 3’ 4” would mean compromising the buffers with bars between them or similar. If you want to use the set track you need to put a straight between the curves so you ease the swing. Reverse curves aren’t good in many scales even with long tension lock couplings that prevent buffer lock. I added a short straight into my points to avoid it with long wheelbase Heljan wagons and I’d reduced the curved track too. Edited March 14, 2023 by PaulRhB 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 I have used set track on my industrial layout and I wouldn't used them again for even another industrial as they cause buffer lock on anything longer than a 16ft LOH with a 9ft WB. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PaulRhB Posted March 14, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 14, 2023 3 minutes ago, MarcD said: I have used set track on my industrial layout and I wouldn't used them again for even another industrial as they cause buffer lock on anything longer than a 16ft LOH with a 9ft WB. Marc Marc, is that with reverse curves or transition from straight to curve? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted March 14, 2023 Share Posted March 14, 2023 Both. I have a crossover and a curve with a flat transition. I can get a terrier to run through both but I can only push stock if the loco is chimney first. Bunker first is a recipe for disaster. Marc 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Just to be clear, as the image above shows, there is ample contact between the buffers on Mainline Coaches when running through Peco Setrack points and reverse curves so buffer lock should not be a problem between these coaches. However there may be a problem when they are coupled to a locomotive or other stock with long over-hangs. The simple solution is to permanently lock the buffers in a partially retracted position, they have a habit of doing this anyway. Dapol do supply an alternative draw-bar to permanently close couple these coaches which works at the transition between straights and Setrack curves but causes derailments on transition curves. There should be no problem at all with Peco Streamline points. The Suburban Coaches are permanently close couples with a draw-bar, but I have no idea how these perform on Peco Setrack. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 A quick question for the experts if I may. On the Mainline brake/Third is the middle oil lamp misplaced? Should it be in line with the centre of the window frame? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarcD Posted March 18, 2023 Share Posted March 18, 2023 I would tend to agree but I will check the book. Marc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GNR Dave Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 Yes it is correct. Bear in mind there were no internal dividers in 3rd class 4 wheelers. The suburban brake only has one light for all three 'compartments'. I believe when they switched to gas lighting , they switched to 3 lights, one for each bank of seats. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted March 20, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 20, 2023 4 minutes ago, GNR Dave said: Yes it is correct. Bear in mind there were no internal dividers in 3rd class 4 wheelers. The suburban brake only has one light for all three 'compartments'. I believe that is what this photo, which Dapol have used in their publicity material. shows: It also suggests that Dapol's oil lamp shrouds are a bit on the weedy side, but maybe the design changed. This is obviously quite an early photo, pre c. 1890, since the train is hand brake only, so maybe the design of the lamp shroud changed down the years? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 20, 2023 Share Posted March 20, 2023 22 minutes ago, GNR Dave said: Yes it is correct. Bear in mind there were no internal dividers in 3rd class 4 wheelers. The suburban brake only has one light for all three 'compartments'. I believe when they switched to gas lighting , they switched to 3 lights, one for each bank of seats. I agree that the number of lights is correct, but I believe that the placement is incorrect. According to D45 the lights in a Mainline Brake/3rd should be positioned above the seat backrests where the partition would be. Later oil lit thirds had partitions with holes cut in them for the lights. See Figure 6.12, page 163, LB&SCR Carriages, Volume 1, by White, Turner and Foulkes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 26, 2023 Share Posted March 26, 2023 A quick view of the inner workings of the draw-bar mountings before I remove them. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldfish Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Another image with the draw-bar mountings removed, and showing one of the pivoted plates that provide compensation and electrical connectivity . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
meatloaf Posted March 27, 2023 Share Posted March 27, 2023 Sams trains has managed to get his to traverse set track points crossover and 2nd radius curves both pulled and pushed. He had the suburban ones with no buffers but very close coupled with the supplied bar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith J Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 I've just noticed that the brake coaches have spoked wheels whilst other coaches have solid wheels, does anyone know the reason for this? Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted April 13, 2023 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 13, 2023 23 minutes ago, Keith J said: I've just noticed that the brake coaches have spoked wheels whilst other coaches have solid wheels, does anyone know the reason for this? Thanks. As built, the brake coaches were the only ones with brakes... So I wonder if there was doubt about the strength of Mansell* wheels, especially as the brakes were not the later clasp type, applying equal force either side of the axle, but single blocks that would exert a sideways force on the wheel, axle, bearing, axlebox, and axleguard. *Richard Mansell, SER Carriage & Wagon Superintendent and later Works Manager, briefly Locomotive Superintendent, retiring in 1882; he first patented the composite hardwood and iron wheel in 1848. Not to be confused with Richard Maunsell, Chief Mechanical Engineer of the SE&CR and SR, 1913-1937, though the Dapol website manages to use his surname in place of that of his predecessor. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith J Posted April 13, 2023 Share Posted April 13, 2023 Thanks for your reply. I did wonder if it could be something to do with the fact that originally it was only the brake coaches that were fitted with brakes. My initial thinking was around cooling in that spoked wheels would cool quicker if the brakes overheated but I then thought with the speeds involved and the materials that the brakes were made of back then would they really get that hot? Your explanation seems far more plausible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Adrian Stevenson Posted September 7, 2023 RMweb Gold Share Posted September 7, 2023 I see the Southern Railway versions with electric lights are now expected by the end of the year. Had an email from the two big box shifters this afternoon. Cheers, Ade. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWCR Posted September 10, 2023 Share Posted September 10, 2023 The Southern ones are what I want, anyone know the status of the sample model shown on released pictures. The lining looks rather poor being a broad cream line rather than the narrow yellow/cream alongside a wider black as expected. Is this just a work in progress sample or is this the actual lining to be released? The actual lining positions look good for early SR, later the lower panel lining and that around the quarterlights was omitted on many vehicles however the last of these Stroudleys went in 1932 hence likely still in the earlier variation. Cant really judge the green but it should be the early lighter shade of the Maunsell Green. I do have access to parts of the body of one of these actual vehicles in SR livery, some paintwork is still visible. Pete 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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