End of Paddington - Birmingham direct.. Park Royal line to close

[adb968008]

Heads up, last chance to reach the GC from Paddington on a direct service train..

Friday December 7th sees the final Chiltern Trains working into London Paddington.

 

After 115 years the Old Oak to Greenford line will be permanently closed / ripped up between Old Oak and Park Royal severing the GWRs North Mainline from the Capital from Monday December 10th.

 

The line has been home to one of London’s daily parliamentary trains running 1 train per day each way for many years, under pretence of maintaining route knowledge in case of Marylebone closure.

 

The last scheduled passenger services are the daily M-F 10.57 from South Ruislip to Paddington and 11.35 return to High Wycombe, which ends on Friday 7th December.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C72036/2018/12/07/advanced

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C71972/2018/12/07/advanced

 

 

From Monday 10th December the legal requirement to connect South Ruislip to Paddington. Will be replaced by a South Ruislip to West Ealing service, and hence connecting service via the Drayton Green “Greenford branch” line.

 

2V27 1102 South Ruislip to West Ealing

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C91486/2018/12/10/advanced

 

2M27 1147 West Ealing to High Wycombe.

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C91485/2018/12/10/advanced

 

Presumably after this date route knowledge to Paddington is no longer required.

It’s a small section of line closing, but it’s a big piece of history. I understand this will also see the end of Greenfords GWR semaphores too.

 

Not aware of any railtour send off, closest will be the 3 coach charter with 9466 from Southall via Drayton Green to Princes Risborough in 2 weeks time.

 

Next time you can go the Park Royal route will be underground on HS2 in a few decades.

Edited October 6, 2018 by adb968008

[Northmoor]

Thanks for the update - will certainly try and travel on the "Parliamentary" before then.  However, since the Central Line is directly alongside for almost the entire section, it's not a complete loss really.   Just don't get me started on how it should be WCML2 and not HS2.....

[Craig1989]

Me and my dad were lucky to do couple years ago when we had a day out round London train spotting but might have to do it one last time

[adb968008]

Interestingly, looking at the WTT at South Ruislip operations..

 

1107 ex South Ruislip arrives 1120 into the new platform 5 (The freshly dug out Milk Bay), which is a non-stop service from South Ruislip...

 

This is followed by the 1113 Greenford which is all stations and arrives into Platform 5 also, at 1123.

Greenford leaves all stations at 1127, followed by the High Wycombe at 1147 (express to South Ruislip).

 

So for a few brief minutes Platform 5 contains two units.

 

The 1127 is cleverly timed to depart 1 minute before the non-connecting 1128 from Paddington, which defeats the whole purpose of giving up that slot into Paddington. Passengers can of course elect to extend their journey time by 13 minutes and take the earlier service, indeed all services (27 and 57) are so timed to miss that connection (28/58) by 1 minute.

 

I just bet Greenford line passengers are loving this change.

Edited October 7, 2018 by adb968008

[dvdlcs]

Heads up, last chance to reach the GC from Paddington on a direct service train..

Friday December 7th sees the final Chiltern Trains working into London Paddington.

 

After 115 years the Old Oak to Greenford line will be permanently closed / ripped up between Old Oak and Park Royal severing the GWRs North Mainline from the Capital from Monday December 10th.

 

If the line is going to be "ripped up" what are the plans for that corridor?

[The Stationmaster]

If the line is going to be "ripped up" what are the plans for that corridor?

 

HS 2 underneath it (a daft way to spend a load of unnecessary money but there you are).

 

But going v back to the OP presumably a closure notice has been posted somewhere and i wonder if any objections have been made?  If I was GWR I would be shaking the portals of Whitehall with my objections as this closure removes a viable alternative route for various diversions plus its removal ends any chance of trains being turned within almost 40 miles of London on the GWML (and we all know about umpteen Class 8XX sets which need to be turned).  More stupidity from DafT by the sound of things.

[Zomboid]

Closure to regular passenger trains doesn't necessarily follow that it'll be ripped up. The latchmere curve had it's parliamentary train withdrawn back when the WLL was silverlink, and it's still there ready for use as and when.

 

Course it doesn't mean that it won't either.

[bike2steam]

Shame, I have fond memories of standing on top of the old pill-box in the centre of the triangle of land within Old Oak West Junction watching steam pass all around ( and plenty on the line, now gone, parallel to the Central Line between East & North Acton) in the early 1960's.

Not a brilliant pic, but the only one I have of the location, taken standing next to said pill-box, 5971 coming to the end of the Birmingham line on an up local freight at Old Oak West Junction - March 1963..

 

Edited October 7, 2018 by bike2steam

[dvdlcs]

adb968008, on 07 Oct 2018 - 02:18, said:

 

    After 115 years the Old Oak to Greenford line will be permanently closed / ripped up between Old Oak and Park Royal severing the GWRs North Mainline from the Capital from Monday December 10th.

 

If the line is going to be "ripped up" what are the plans for that corridor?

 

HS 2 underneath it (a daft way to spend a load of unnecessary money but there you are).

 

Thank you for the response. Presumably HS2 is going to be built cut-and-cover in that area, otherwise could tunnel under the existing line?

[phil-b259]

adb968008, on 07 Oct 2018 - 02:18, said:

 

    After 115 years the Old Oak to Greenford line will be permanently closed / ripped up between Old Oak and Park Royal severing the GWRs North Mainline from the Capital from Monday December 10th.

 

If the line is going to be "ripped up" what are the plans for that corridor?

 

 

Thank you for the response. Presumably HS2 is going to be built cut-and-cover in that area, otherwise could tunnel under the existing line?

 

Once the HS2 tunnelling work is completed the corridor will be retained for further conventional rail use. There have been suggestions in the past of Chiltern operating an Old Oak - High Wycombe service as Marylebone is basically full and an expansion will need an alternative London Terminus.

Edited October 8, 2018 by phil-b259

[phil-b259]

HS 2 underneath it (a daft way to spend a load of unnecessary money but there you are).

 

But going v back to the OP presumably a closure notice has been posted somewhere and i wonder if any objections have been made?  If I was GWR I would be shaking the portals of Whitehall with my objections as this closure removes a viable alternative route for various diversions plus its removal ends any chance of trains being turned within almost 40 miles of London on the GWML (and we all know about umpteen Class 8XX sets which need to be turned).  More stupidity from DafT by the sound of things.

 

What about the triangle at the Ealing End Mike? Granted its not going to be as easy due to the need to change ends but the facility still exists and is no further out from London than the current circuit round the loop.

 

The tunnelling has come about due to folk complaining about the potential noise and visual intrusion - we can see on another thread just how vocal folk get about things 'ruining' their views or creating noise

 

Its also worth remembering that at one time HS1 was planned to be on the surface parallel to the North London line (probably taking up the space currently used by the East London line tracks from Dalston) but that ended up in a tunnel too (although unlike the section through Park Royal there was no chance the NLL could have been closed anyway)

[Zomboid]

plus its removal ends any chance of trains being turned within almost 40 miles of London on the GWML (and we all know about umpteen Class 8XX sets which need to be turned). More stupidity from DafT by the sound of things.

Unless I've missed something, the triangle at West Ealing/ Hanwell is not affected and could therefore be used to turn trains.

[phil-b259]

Interestingly, looking at the WTT at South Ruislip operations..

 

1107 ex South Ruislip arrives 1120 into the new platform 5 (The freshly dug out Milk Bay), which is a non-stop service from South Ruislip...

 

This is followed by the 1113 Greenford which is all stations and arrives into Platform 5 also, at 1123.

Greenford leaves all stations at 1127, followed by the High Wycombe at 1147 (express to South Ruislip).

 

So for a few brief minutes Platform 5 contains two units.

 

The 1127 is cleverly timed to depart 1 minute before the non-connecting 1128 from Paddington, which defeats the whole purpose of giving up that slot into Paddington. Passengers can of course elect to extend their journey time by 13 minutes and take the earlier service, indeed all services (27 and 57) are so timed to miss that connection (28/58) by 1 minute.

 

I just bet Greenford line passengers are loving this change.

 

Its worth noting that while connections might not be great at present, once the delayed Elizabeth line gets running at full pelt there will be far more Paddington trains for interchanging users to catch!

[Paul.Uni]

No there won't. It'll still be 4 trains an hour calling at West Ealing according to http://74f85f59f39b887b696f-ab656259048fb93837ecc0ecbcf0c557.r23.cf3.rackcdn.com/assets/library/document/e/original/elizabeth_line_service_pattern-reading_to_central_london.pdf

[adb968008]

Unless I've missed something, the triangle at West Ealing/ Hanwell is not affected and could therefore be used to turn trains.

The Greenford end will also exist, freight will continue to Park Royal as required, who knows it might even see tunnel extraction freight traffic, Its the old oak - Park Royal section that will go, ie the junction off the GWML.

 

http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/locations/ooc/ooc.jpg

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/tech-excellence/engineering-plans-for-hs2-old-oak-common-station-revealed/10029616.article

 

It appears the single track will be reinstated afterwards, not sure how that 1 track to 1 platform at Old Oak helps Chilterns plans unless magical space is found at Paddington or they want to run round to Clapham or Waterloo international perhaps ?

Edited October 8, 2018 by adb968008

[bike2steam]

 closure removes any chance of trains being turned within almost 40 miles of London on the GWML (and we all know about umpteen Class 8XX sets which need to be turned).  More stupidity from DafT by the sound of things.

 

Can't it be done via Acton and Willesden Junction HL, or has all that been changed ??

Edited October 8, 2018 by bike2steam

[Christopher125]

HS 2 underneath it (a daft way to spend a load of unnecessary money but there you are).

 

It was actually very sensible - tunnels were already planned at either end (under Ruislip and into Old Oak Common), so when the true cost and disruption of a surface route in an urban area became clear, such as replacing most if not all bridges including those carrying the Hanger Lane gyratory, it proved cheaper and easier just to tunnel throughout. It also keeps the NNML open for other rail traffic.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Christopher125

[big jim]

i only discovered it was closing last week, another bit of my route card gone for good

[Edwin_m]

The Greenford end will also exist, freight will continue to Park Royal as required, who knows it might even see tunnel extraction freight traffic, Its the old oak - Park Royal section that will go, ie the junction off the GWML.

 

http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/locations/ooc/ooc.jpg

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/tech-excellence/engineering-plans-for-hs2-old-oak-common-station-revealed/10029616.article

 

It appears the single track will be reinstated afterwards, not sure how that 1 track to 1 platform at Old Oak helps Chilterns plans unless magical space is found at Paddington or they want to run round to Clapham or Waterloo international perhaps ?

As far as I know it won't be possible to continue beyond Old Oak because some of the other works are in the way.  But terminating a couple of trains per hour there off the Chiltern line provides a connection into Crossrail which is a bit awkward from Marylebone, as well as westwards to Heathrow and the Thames Valley.

[The Stationmaster]

To answer several queries about various triangles etc the big advantage of 'going round Greenford' is that it is a straight ahead, and possibly even non-stop, move - you simply leave Paddington or Old Oak and off you go coming back to the same place so it's simple.  Using the triangles anywhere first of all assumes they are signalled to allow train reversal onto the correct line (I wonder if the West Ealing/Hanwell triangle still is?) plus you have to either use two Drivers or spend time changing ends twice so it not only takes time but also needs a suitable gap amongst other traffic to allow you to do it and with a long train you can't stand in clear of the junctions/signals at both ends which you can do at Reading.  Using the triangle at reading is at least partially (if not wholly) signalled for reversals although one of them involves going all the way to Tilehurst to cross over.

 

In the past we'd think nothing of sending an HST round Greenford to turn it and the time cost could usually be stood without causing too much delay.  When you think of the number of Class 80X sets which need turning maybe the best idea would be to get on and do it before the route is lost.

[phil-b259]

The Greenford end will also exist, freight will continue to Park Royal as required, who knows it might even see tunnel extraction freight traffic, Its the old oak - Park Royal section that will go, ie the junction off the GWML.

 

http://www.thehs2.com/phase1/locations/ooc/ooc.jpg

 

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/tech-excellence/engineering-plans-for-hs2-old-oak-common-station-revealed/10029616.article

 

It appears the single track will be reinstated afterwards, not sure how that 1 track to 1 platform at Old Oak helps Chilterns plans unless magical space is found at Paddington or they want to run round to Clapham or Waterloo international perhaps ?

The proposal to bring Chiltern has not been ‘worked up’ to a full scale plan yet - it’s more of ‘this is what we could do’ sort of thing at the moment.

[Zomboid]

The triangle at Greenford definitely is useable as a reversing location, as they use it for turning Southall based teasmaids. Using the West Ealing one, one leg is the GWML so they probably wouldn't, given a choice, but it may be signalled to make it possible.

 

Obviously the US style return loop via Greenford is easier, but that's pretty marginal compared to HS2.

[Northroader]

Some time ago, in NSE Thames and Chiltern days, the “parliamentary” train was worked by a Turbo set which afforded the chance to exchange a set from Reading depot with Aylesbury depot, which was just being commissioned. This enabled rotation of sets after a major service or repair at Reading. It started off with two turbo sets in multiple incoming to Paddington from points west, heavily weighed down with commuters, and landing into the platform 14 end, on that narrow platform away from the main line end. All well and good, but the sets then split and went off one after another on different workings. The first set did a through fast trip, via Reading and Oxford, to Warwick and Stratford on Avon, which was a marvellous facility for foreign tourists in London for a day out. Now, if you’re an American or Japanese person, imagine the fun finding this neck of the woods and getting on the set through a tide of humanity with a smartly timed turnaround. So that set would leave, and once clear of the block, the second set, which formed the exchange set for Aylesbury, would be off. You could guarantee that as the set turned right at OOC, the ticket checker would meet the foreigners who had failed the test.

Edited October 8, 2018 by Northroader

[woodenhead]

Just followed the route on Google Maps and lo and behold there was a FGW HST on it.

[jonny777]

That is really sad news. When I lived in High Wycombe many decades ago, I used to choose the through trains for two reasons; one being that they were much faster than the Marylebone dmus (I once timed a Hymek at just over 90mph somewhere between Beaconsfield and Gerrards Cross), and the other was that they went via Old Oak and I could glimpse what was on the depot and I would arrive at Paddington rather than the mortuary which was Marylebone in those days.  

 

The rot set in around 1974 when Birmingham services were diverted via Reading, although a couple of fast trains survived via High Wycombe for a while and occasionally at weekends they would be diverted (slowly) via the Greenford branch which gave an added bonus of viewing any locos in Acton Yard when we arrived on the main line. 

 

Oh well, at least I have the memories.