End of Paddington - Birmingham direct.. Park Royal line to close

[caradoc]

About four of you have taken the trouble to point out my "error" in referring to the lines generally used by slower trains as slow lines- without apparently noticing that I put "slow" in inverted commas as a generic description rather than their official title.

 

I apologise if my comment on your 'error' has upset you, it was meant as a mildly humorous dig at the GWR, not any disrepect to you at all.

[Northmoor]

That negative or dismissive attitude to rail based transport links wasn't just in this country. The first time I visited the USA  I can remember being astonished at the almost non-existent public transport connection between JFK and New York City. I think there was an infrequent local bus that went from there to the end of one of the subways but ISTR that even as poor students we ended up sharing cabs.

We spent a few days in NYC this year and I can completely endorse this.  What is interesting is that while pretty much all the traffic all goes by car/taxi, it's not as if the major road is a fabulously maintained transport link; if the M25/M4 were only maintained to that standard, there would be questions in Parliament.  As for the standards of driving in New York, the only place I've seen more generally inconsiderate and just plain incompetent driving was Bangkok in the rush hour, where a good proportion of the traffic was scooters carrying a family of three and a chicken.

[Pacific231G]

I apologise if my comment on your 'error' has upset you, it was meant as a mildly humorous dig at the GWR, not any disrepect to you at all.

Don't worry Caradoc.I wasn't upset just mildly irritated that my actual question seemed to have been overlooked so had a slight sense of humour failure. The pomposity of my paternal grandfather's former employer is always worth pricking. I have long known what the four lines of that part of the GWML are officially called and had I ever forgotten,  there were notices plastered over every access point a couple of years agoto remind all concerned that speed limits on the relief lines were being raised.  I didn't think though that everyone else would know what I was talking about if I referred to the up relief line- especially around the complex of tracks at western end of the Acton goods yard- or even that Crossrail would continue to call it that.

 

Finding out the actual gradients in the " Acton Roller Coaster" proved far more of a challenge than I'd expected. It involved a lot of wading through uninformative PR bumpf from the various companies involved before finding an actual detailed description courtesy of the PWI. I was probably being a little unfair in assuming that anyone here already knew the answer.

 

https://www.thepwi.org/about_us/blog/posts/acton_diveunder_slab_track_steepest_rheda_2000_uk_innovative_transition_arrangements

 

Going through it at speed, (which I did once again just before the disadvantages of link span wiring were so ably demonstrated) is an interesting experience with an exciting range of G forces on offer.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Pacific231G

[The Stationmaster]

About four of you have taken the trouble to point out my "error" in referring to the lines generally used by slower trains as slow lines- without apparently noticing that I put "slow" in inverted commas as a generic description rather than their official title. Since nobody apparently knew the answer to my actual query  I've had to delve a bit for it. Accordng to a presentation given at Network Rail's Track Engineering Conference in 2015, it's the steepest use of Rheda 2000 slab track and the gradients are 1:40 down and 1:50 up

The presentation is interesting and can be found here

https://www.thepwi.org/about_us/blog/posts/acton_diveunder_slab_track_steepest_rheda_2000_uk_innovative_transition_arrangements

 

It refers to the diveunder as the Acton Roller Coaster. Given the combination of vertical and horizontal transitions involved that does seem very apt.

 

Diveunder is a word I'd never seen before this one was being built. Is it now the accepted term replacing "burrowing junction" which I'm sure is what the arrangement that takes the H&C under the GWML  between Royal Oak and Westbourne Park was always called.

 

It has long struck me as rather ironic, given that the "fast" lines are properly the up and down main, that Acton Main Line station has lost its down main platform. Would the remaining platform 2 on the up main - now barriered off from platform three- have been retained for the sole purpose of detraining passengers if (or rather when!) Paddington gets a complete stoppage

 

The H&C line burrowing under the GWR to replace the original flat crossing was known as 'the subway' and seemingly referred to as such for many years subsequent to its construction (hence the adjacent signalbox being Subway Junction).  The Down main platforma t Acton Main Line vanished a long while ah go and the present barrier is no doubt part of the peculiar GWML 'suicide fence' scheme.  

 

Acton ML would be totally useless as a replacement for a blocked Paddington: Ealing Broadway offers far better interchange (like it actually has some, including an alternative rail route to Paddington, albeit with one change but over which the relevant geographic BR passes are still valid) and of course unlike the Main line platform at Acton ML it has the advantage of all four platforms. having access to reversal facilities at Old Oak Common so it can be, and has been, used to start and terminate trains.  But the real alternative has for many years usually been Reading which had the greater advantage (until the recent rebuilding) of having somewhere to put trains aside if there were no crews to work them away plus of course it also has more staff to deal with the crowds )r try to deal with them).

 

PS oddly the only trains I have travelled on over the Up relief since the diveunder opened have all been routed via the original line, maybe my next trip in a couple of weeks time will break my duck?

Edited October 25, 2018 by The Stationmaster

[Gwiwer]

Mike makes a fair point about crowds.

 

Ealing Broadway gets very busy these days under normal conditions and that isn't helped currently by the need to use the temporary footbridge at the London end of the platforms while the main station building is being renovated.  Passengers requiring down services must walk the length of the up platform and there are notices (together with plenty of hired agency and permanent staff) to the effect that access will be restricted at busy times to prevent overcrowding.  

 

To have all up GWML trains terminate there, for whatever reason, will overload the facilities.  The station simply isn't equipped to de-train a fully-loaded HST/IET every ten minutes or so, luggage and all, and to get that number of people through the station and onto some sort of alternative transport.

 

If, however, one uses the Central Line then Lancaster Gate station is within a modest walking distance of Paddington meaning a change of line might not be necessary for some journeys.  And all will become much easier once the Lizzie Line opens throughout; one then simply bails at Ealing and picks up the next Purple Demon bound for Shenfield or Abbey Wood.

 

Reading is far better equipped to handle very large numbers of passengers on an unplanned basis including transfers to alternative routes.  And is, as Mike says, also able to hold trains pending their next trip or berth them overnight together with having crew facilities.

Edited October 25, 2018 by Gwiwer

[jim.snowdon]

Reading may be better equipped to handle termination of GWR's trains, but from a passenger perspective, the obvious alternative route to London via South Western's trains isn't, with only a half-houry service to Waterloo. Oddly enough, the route via Basingstoke takes only slightly longer, but I would suspect is never considered as an alternative route for ticketing purposes and probably not publicised as being available.

 

As it is, east of Reading, the GW main line is simply not equipped to reverse the service short of Paddington. There are a few places where trains can be reversed, but only on a one off basis for all practical purposes. The problem isn't confined to the GW main line either - for the WCML, the point of last reversal is Milton Keynes (which is a fat lot of use to anyone who has passed Birmingham heading for London ).

 

Jim

[Gwiwer]

Reading may be better equipped to handle termination of GWR's trains, but from a passenger perspective, the obvious alternative route to London via South Western's trains isn't, with only a half-houry service to Waterloo. Oddly enough, the route via Basingstoke takes only slightly longer, but I would suspect is never considered as an alternative route for ticketing purposes and probably not publicised as being available.

 

 

 

The route via Basingstoke is allowed on all tickets marked "AP" or "Any Permitted" route to "London Terminals" but not for "Via Slough" or to "London Paddington".

 

All reasonable routes are allowed when CSL2 kicks in.  Customer Service Level 2 is the protocol by which all TOC's (and I believe the open-access operators also) accept each other's tickets at times of severe disruption.  Waterloo - Reading would be allowed direct, via Basingstoke and indeed via Hounslow changing at Staines.  However not all TOCs accept every ticket so while SWR and GWR will always accept each other's over near-parallel routes Cross Country usually do not accept either on the Reading - Basingstoke leg because alternatives exist.

 

SWR's Waterloo - Reading service can get very busy but there is also capacity to offer four trains each hour in times of dire need rather than the timetabled two.  Four operate in the peak hour now and those paths remain unused off-peak.  The hard part is resourcing train crews.

 

Depending upon the location of a blockage tickets are also accepted via Windsor with passengers walking the short (though hilly) distance between the stations.  

[Pacific231G]

The H&C line burrowing under the GWR to replace the original flat crossing was known as 'the subway' and seemingly referred to as such for many years subsequent to its construction (hence the adjacent signalbox being Subway Junction).  The Down main platforma t Acton Main Line vanished a long while ah go and the present barrier is no doubt part of the peculiar GWML 'suicide fence' scheme.  

 

Acton ML would be totally useless as a replacement for a blocked Paddington: Ealing Broadway offers far better interchange (like it actually has some, including an alternative rail route to Paddington, albeit with one change but over which the relevant geographic BR passes are still valid) and of course unlike the Main line platform at Acton ML it has the advantage of all four platforms. having access to reversal facilities at Old Oak Common so it can be, and has been, used to start and terminate trains.  But the real alternative has for many years usually been Reading which had the greater advantage (until the recent rebuilding) of having somewhere to put trains aside if there were no crews to work them away plus of course it also has more staff to deal with the crowds )r try to deal with them).

 

PS oddly the only trains I have travelled on over the Up relief since the diveunder opened have all been routed via the original line, maybe my next trip in a couple of weeks time will break my duck?

Thanks Mike

I've had about a fifty fity hit rate on using the Acton roller coaster since it opened but that's always been on electric trains from W. Ealing. I suspect it's only being used when down freights are emerging from Acton yard and I think it's only TfL and GWR electric trains that use it.

 

I agree with you about Acton ML's limitations and wasn't seeing it as a general replacement for a blocked Paddington but as a location where you could detrain passengers if the lines into Paddington became blocked and you had a number of loaded trains stuck between there and Ealing. As an emergency terminus it wouild be entirely unsuitable, not least because of the lack of public transport and no real circulating area to handle large numbers - the ticket barriers are almost on the pavement of Horn Lane

 

I can't agree with Gwiwer about Ealing Broadway's unsuitability as an emergency western terminus for the GWML because that's exactly what it became for a week or so after the 1999 Ladbroke Grove disaster while Paddington was completely closed. I live fairly close to Ealing and used it during the emergency to get to or from the District Line and it was handling a lot of trains including HSTs. They were able to clear forward to OOC and it had the other advantage of being the terminus of two Underground lines so passengers arriving and departing could get to and from central London in largish numbers relatively easily. The up relief platform has a fairly easy transfer to the Underground as four of their five platforms have level access. the up main would have been more awkward.  

 

I don't know how much of the normal FGW timetable was maintained to Ealing and ISTR that quite a few trains did start or terminate at Reading but Ealing was handling long distance trains and as soon as one HST had unloaded and left ECS for OOC it seemed that the next would be coming in. Even for passengers whose trains did terminate at Reading- which had not yet been redeveloped- the remaining trains to and from Ealing wouild probably have been a better route for much of London than the Southern line to Waterloo.Overall passenger numbers were in any case well down and I don't know whether the service between Reading and Waterloo was beefed up.

 

I have noticed, on the "Paddington" TV series that, when the terminus is blocked for a couple or hours or more (as it has been on several occasions in the series) they're advising passengers to go to Waterloo and travel via Reading. I don't know how well the Waterloo- Reading line copes with that.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Pacific231G

[jim.snowdon]

The route via Basingstoke is allowed on all tickets marked "AP" or "Any Permitted" route to "London Terminals" but not for "Via Slough" or to "London Paddington".

 

All reasonable routes are allowed when CSL2 kicks in.  Customer Service Level 2 is the protocol by which all TOC's (and I believe the open-access operators also) accept each other's tickets at times of severe disruption.  Waterloo - Reading would be allowed direct, via Basingstoke and indeed via Hounslow changing at Staines.  However not all TOCs accept every ticket so while SWR and GWR will always accept each other's over near-parallel routes Cross Country usually do not accept either on the Reading - Basingstoke leg because alternatives exist.

 

SWR's Waterloo - Reading service can get very busy but there is also capacity to offer four trains each hour in times of dire need rather than the timetabled two.  Four operate in the peak hour now and those paths remain unused off-peak.  The hard part is resourcing train crews.

 

Depending upon the location of a blockage tickets are also accepted via Windsor with passengers walking the short (though hilly) distance between the stations.  

All of which neatly emphasises the problems of the non-unified railway where commercial considerations come before delivering a service and there is a substantial divide between the Train Operators and Network Rail, which appears to consider its role solely as providing the infrastructure. In simple terms, there is no controlling influence when everything has gone pear-shaped.

 

Jim

[Zomboid]

There's not a huge amount of spare capacity between Basingstoke and Reading for GWML passengers, the half hourly local is 2 or 3 cars, and the voyagers are usually rammed anyway.

At least the Ascot route can support 10 car trains.

[adb968008]

Travelled the donkey today from South Ruislip to Paddington, and “express” to High Wycombe.

 

The rear car from South Ruislip contained 30 odd BBC film crew, making a drama calked „Gold Digger” for March 2019, that required a modern moving train scene, this service was a good choice as its a quiet one... they took 1 1/2 coaches, including the loo as a changing room.

 

4 of us made up the rest, all for sole purpose of riding this train.

 

Return to High Wycombe, doesn’t stop at South Ruislip, except when the Calvert freight missed its path, blocked South Ruislip and with 8 services to pass us, and with no spare capacity, only voids where 4 track and loops used to exist, we ended up 54 minutes late at Greenford.

A further wait ensured north end of South Ruislip station, whilst other services passed.

 

Total passengers.. 2 (me plus daughter), and BBC film crew, whom continued on the ECS upto Aylesbury also.

 

As it stands this BBC drama maybe the last filming on this line.

 

Lots of GWR semaphores around Greenford, what looks like the remains of a GWR gunpowder van at Park Royal, and lots of half buried, abandoned bull head rail along the entire route.

 

We later returned from High Wycombe to South Ruislip, took the tube to Greenford, and the shuttle to West Ealing, finished the job with a new Elizabeth Line class 345 to Paddington, passing 59204 on the Way, and 66174 at South Ruislip waste depot, which later went LE to Acton yard via Castle Bar Park, took a new fly under beneath Acton Main line today, trying to understand why this has been built ? - is there really so much west bound freight in daylight hours ?

Edited October 26, 2018 by adb968008

[adb968008]

As an FYI the crew on the South Ruislip service said the final service on December 7th is expected to be strengthened to a 4 car service, in anticipation of a larger crowd.

 

Apparently loads have increased in the last few weeks... I can’t imagine how 4 one way and 2 the other is considered an increase, if today is anything to go by.

 

As an FYI there is a daily crew training ecs in real-time trains, for training purposes, from Wembley shed, to South Ruislip and onto West Ealing, it’s for crew training, but so far has never run. It will flip with the Paddington service from December 9th, the “new” Paddington ECS service will obviously also be cancelled every day, but West Ealing will now be a service train. Of note the line isn’t “closing”, it’s an engineering possession...just a several year long one, without any plan to revert to a Paddington service afterwards.

 

Both the Greenford shuttle and the South Ealing service will share the West Ealing bay platform, which is sized exactly for 4 cars, upto the buffers, so the Chiltern and GWR 165s will be a very tight fit... pity the Class 121 bubble cars are no longer around, this seems a perfect fit, indeed this route has all the attractions of Heritage operation.. if it were subbed out to GWS at Didcot and used the Railcar, 14xx and SRM you could bet the South Ruislip service would be a daily sell out ! - alas a dream, this service isn’t about making money, at least not with the £7.45 discount revenue from the two of us which the Paddington- High Wycombe service earned today.. which is to be delay repaid.

Edited October 26, 2018 by adb968008

[Pacific231G]

Travelled the donkey today from South Ruislip to Paddington, and “express” to High Wycombe.

 

The rear car from South Ruislip contained 30 odd BBC film crew, making a drama calked „Gold Digger” for March 2019, that required a modern moving train scene, this service was a good choice as its a quiet one... they took 1 1/2 coaches, including the loo as a changing room.

 

4 of us made up the rest, all for sole purpose of riding this train.

 

Return to High Wycombe, doesn’t stop at South Ruislip, except when the Calvert freight missed its path, blocked South Ruislip and with 8 services to pass us, and with no spare capacity, only voids where 4 track and loops used to exist, we ended up 54 minutes late at Greenford.

A further wait ensured north end of South Ruislip station, whilst other services passed.

 

Total passengers.. 2 (me plus daughter), and BBC film crew, whom continued on the ECS upto Aylesbury also.

 

As it stands this BBC drama maybe the last filming on this line.

 

Lots of GWR semaphores around Greenford, what looks like the remains of a GWR gunpowder van at Park Royal, and lots of half buried, abandoned bull head rail along the entire route.

 

We later returned from High Wycombe to South Ruislip, took the tube to Greenford, and the shuttle to West Ealing, finished the job with a new Elizabeth Line class 345 to Paddington, passing 59204 on the Way, and 66174 at South Ruislip waste depot, which later went LE to Acton yard via Castle Bar Park, took a new fly under beneath Acton Main line today, trying to understand why this has been built ? - is there really so much west bound freight in daylight hours ?

I've been quite surprised at just how much freight there is on that part of the GWML. If I'm waiting for a train at Ealing Broadway or West Ealing for more than a few minutes I seem to see one more often than not. Apart from the minerals traffic in and out of Acton Yard itsefl there seems to be a lot of traffic joining the GWML from both north and south via the Acton Wells branch whose two tracks finally merge with the GWML relief lines at the west end of Acton yard.(though there is also a crossover  linking the branch to the reliefs a little to the east of Acton Main Line station.     

[adb968008]

As an FYI, it seems there is a steam farewell planned to the Paddington - Park Royal - Greenford line,

 

24th November 35028 is scheduled this way

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/U54617/2018/11/24/advanced

 

Of course no one here will see it, as we will all be crowding layouts at Warley

Edited October 26, 2018 by adb968008

[The Stationmaster]

GWML is pretty busy for freight traffic during the day.  The originally agreed situation for Crossrail (the earlier iteration but somebody, seemingly well informed TfL wise. quoted it on the London Connections site as valid now) is two freight paths per hour east of Reading off-peak and in the peak shoulders.  At certain times of day that would barely be adequate as three freights per hour is not unusual and that is without any diversions of Southampton container trains in operation. Incidentally Ealing Broadway now seems to be a lot busier than it used to be with the platforms getting very crowded at peak times.

[stonesboy]

Went on the Chiltern Line today from South Ruislip to London Paddington.

Must have been between 30 to 40 passengers on board which is much more the the one man and his dog that normally travels on this route.

Really enjoyed the trip but what was great to see was the age range from teenager to OAP’s. Also a small group of photographers were waiting at Paddington.

I heard somebody say they had travelled down from Peterborough!

Wonder what it will be like tomorrow. Probably packed which is why I traveled today.

[Gwiwer]

Wonder what it will be like tomorrow. Probably packed which is why I traveled today.

 

Let's hope Murphy's Law is not invoked resulting in a cancellation

 

The service is quite well-known among rail enthusiasts because it is so infrequent.  The weekly "Stalybridge Pullman" (Stockport - Stalybridge parliamentary train) os often quite busy for just that reason.  I have even seen people get on and off at the two intermediate stations which have no other service just to ensure they are used.

[TravisM]

Went on the Chiltern Line today from South Ruislip to London Paddington.

Must have been between 30 to 40 passengers on board which is much more the the one man and his dog that normally travels on this route.

Really enjoyed the trip but what was great to see was the age range from teenager to OAP’s. Also a small group of photographers were waiting at Paddington.

I heard somebody say they had travelled down from Peterborough!

Wonder what it will be like tomorrow. Probably packed which is why I traveled today.

If your talking about Monday, it was possibly me you talked to as I travelled from Paddington to High Wycombe and then returned via Marylebone.

[EddieB]

Awful weather, but still a large turnout for the final run. Chiltern laid on a 3-car set and it was needed for 140 passengers on the inbound and 192 on the outbound from Paddington. Exceptionally the train was routed into Platform 1 at Paddington. Another variation was that the outbound made additional stops at South Ruislip and Gerard’s Cross - usually it ran non stop to High Wycombe.

Edited December 7, 2018 by EddieB

[Rugd1022]

Photos c/o Anthony Middleton, the driver of the very last HST to leave Old Oak was Bob Long, he was also the driver aboard 50 041 when it overturned at Padd on 23/11/83...