Lest We Forget

[Butler Henderson]

Trading standards have been confiscating stocks of non British Legion poppy memorabilia, trust Fox/Virgin do have the correct authority. In terms of the genuine stuff bought a small poppy badge which this year has 1918 on it as well the current year (as normal) for £2 and the seller  insisted I took two normal plastic ones free, which incidentally also have 1918 2018 printed on the green leaf.

[HillsideDepot]

Over the years, I have studied the GWR WW1 Rolls of Honour which are, thankfully, still on display at various stations around the network, most recently this one at Newton Abbott whilst changing trains.

 

 

So it is good to see that GWR are currently sharing short biographies of some of the staff who gave their lives in WW1 on their Twitter @GWRHelp and on their Facebook page. 

 

 

[hmrspaul]

The HMRS has posted a new series of header photographs for Remembrance week. They automatically scroll.

 

https://hmrs.org.uk/

 

 

http://hmrsmembers.org.uk/

 

 

As part of the project I have posted a series of photographs of the NER memorial in York https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/nerwarmemorial

 

Like others on here I was a post war child - resulting from a Londoner and Liverpudlian meeting because of the 2nd war. My mother built bombers. My father was a young career railway man and knew morse very well. After training and being a trainer in Canada he joined the Combined Operations ship Largs and was with it through all of the operations. This was THE command ship of the war, the only one to go on every allied landing, and many with the US in the Far East. Dad was a strong swimmer - possibly Olympic hopeful if war hadn't put a stop to that - and he would be dropped off out at sea and swim to the beaches with a radio to guide the attack forces. Later they used X boats. Because of telegraphy skills he was taken from the Largs near the end of the Pacific war to assist communications at Yalta. He went back to being a railway clerk and rarely spoke of the war - unlike my mother whom could describe the bombing and straffing of Liverpool all too well. It was only in a retirement home that he mentioned mentoring swimmers at the 1948 Olympics - he was living back in Alperton with his parents and therefore near to Wembley, and the Olympic pool and also worked at Greenford, later Uxbridge Vine Street before going up to HQ and a management career.

 

 My GCE History included both world wars. We weren't taken to the war graves as many of our young people are now. I was depressed by a radio 4 programme that mentioned that German schools did very little on the 1st war (2 milllion Germans died in the Great War to end all wars) and had no equivalent of poppy day - the youngsters interviewed thought they should. 

 

Like others, I wish our leading politicians would not 'forget'.

 

Paul Bartlett

 

Edited to insert the publicly available home page - apologies to anyone misled earlier.

Edited November 4, 2018 by hmrspaul

[Steamport Southport]

I agree, I ordered mine on Wed evening, arrived Sat morning, very impressed with that!

 

But, not so impressed with the sticker/label from Virgin, how on earth can they have the

copyright to the use of the poppy, or some words that have been used in a similar way

for years to commemorate this event? (bl@@dy money grabbing lawyers!)

 

And the British Legion isn't the same?

 

Copyright is copyright no matter how worthy the cause is.

 

https://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/news/2017-11-13/statement-regarding-royal-british-legion-and-lms-patriot-project

 

 

 

Jason

Edited November 4, 2018 by Steamport Southport

[Clive Mortimore]

I was lucky I too was born when we didn't have a war. I done my yearly thing of buying a poppy, as I did so I had a momentary reflection of my short time in the army. The action of the IRA on one day saw the death of a chap who lived a couple of streets from my family home and the death of the husband of one of our neighbour's daughter. I also thought of my mate Griff, who died taking part in a regimental forced march. We must also remember those who lost their lives in conflicts around the world in"peace time".

 

My medal from "peace time".

[jcm@gwr]

And the British Legion isn't the same?

 

Copyright is copyright no matter how worthy the cause is.

 

https://www.lms-patriot.org.uk/news/2017-11-13/statement-regarding-royal-british-legion-and-lms-patriot-project

 

 

 

Jason

 

That's my point!

I thought the copyright belonged to The Royal British Legion, not Virgin.

[Northmoor]

Clive - As I'm sure you know there hasn't been a year since WW2 when the British Military hasn't been operating in a war zone somewhere.  But I agree, being born outside one of the major wars is a privilege. 

 

Totally agree about commemorating all those who served and died, regardless of how; I believe that in the years leading up to the Second Gulf War, the greatest cause of British Army deaths was road accidents, in the UK.

[great central]

I don't know if this is appropriate in such a thought provoking thread, but last night when I got home from work there were loads of fireworks going off all around.

The street light outside my house was out, we live in a wooded area with most housing half a mile or so away, so could clearly hear and see the flashes in the night sky.

Standing and watching for a short time the frequency of the bangs and flashes put me in mind of being either in a war zone or urban areas under bombardment.

I thought that it must have been awful during air raids for the civilian population, knowing that the the next bang you hear could be the last, all the time trying to live as normal a life as possible.

I've no doubt there are those on here can remember such things, I'm too young fortunately, and I think they also deserve a little thought at this time of year. Without many of these people there would have been no support and supplies for the fighting men, and I'm sure many lost loved ones both in conflict and at home.

Everyone who had lived through such times, and continue to do so more recently, deserve our utmost respect and gratitude.

Thank you to each and every one for our freedom.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

What will happen when the 100th anniversary of the Armistice is over in a few days time? Will we start all over again with WW2?

 

 Remembrance as usual until 2039 - 2045, when I would expect the same scale of commemoration.

 

I perceive the present effort is to draw a line under the First World War as now effectively 'time out of mind', much as the Napoleonic war, Seven years war, Thirty years war...

[The Stationmaster]

 Remembrance as usual until 2039 - 2045, when I would expect the same scale of commemoration.

 

I perceive the present effort is to draw a line under the First World War as now effectively 'time out of mind', much as the Napoleonic war, Seven years war, Thirty years war...

 

I doubt 'they' will be unable to draw a line under WWI for all sorts of reasons.  Not only was it really the first mass war to affect virtually the whole of the UK in fairly direct ways, and thus have a massive impact, but there are still plenty of people around who in the past knew relatives who served in that war and who carried scars or deeply seared memories of it.  In my case both grandfathers and various great uncles who said very little except at times when they became unusually talkative about such things as losing a mate drowned in the mud at Passchendaele or being sent back having become a straggler only to learn later that the officer who sent them back had been caught in a major gas shelling or were still suffering from the effects of a long past gas attack when I was old enough to understand why someone coughed in the way that they did.  

 

Perhaps  the memories might die away but I suspect they will linger for as long as there are those of us around who heard snippets and what amount to everyday recollections about that war from our close relatives who served in it.

[Dunsignalling]

My maternal Grandfather came through "the first lot" (as he called it) despite being in the 2nd Devons from 1914, a unit notorious for consistently finding itself in the wrong place at the wrong time throughout WW1. 

 

He was gassed a couple of times but caught a "lucky bullet" in March 1918 and had not been returned to action by the time they copped yet another packet in the July or things might have been very different.

 

As it was, he and his brothers all returned, with various levels of "intactness" when it was over. His family was therefore one of the fortunate kind, but they all lived with health issues of one sort or another, arising from their service, for the rest of their lives.

 

It's not just those who paid the ultimate price that we remember at this time of year, but those who carried on paying long after the shooting stopped.

 

John

Edited November 5, 2018 by Dunsignalling

[Nick C]

The worst thing about it, to me, is that despite the millions of people who were killed or maimed defending their countries, we still have armed conflict - Looking on Wikipedia there has been a war going on, somewhere on earth, since well before WW1 - not a single day of peace in over 100 years.

 

On a more positive note, The 11th of November 1918 also marks Poland's independence day, with Latvia's following a few days later.

[Alex TM]

Hi everyone,

 

Among some of my colleagues the conversation has already begun about how to 'do' Remembrance after this year.  In my immediate context, it remains a 'big thing' being one of those rare occasions when virtually every part of common society gathers together for the same purpose.  The questions are, at present, about how we will mark the 11th November; there seems to be an assumption that we will continue do something beyond 2018.

 

For me Remembrance begins in late September with the planning of services and 'parades', of which I am directly involved in three, beginning tomorrow with the local secondary school.  For us it's the uniformed youth organisations that are inspiring as they put genuine respect, thought, and feeling into it.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

There will be no cessation of Remembrance in the years to come, but it will revert to 'normal scale' in my opinion until we get to 2039 - 45. There was about three times the 'normal' turnout last year, compared to a typical pre 2014 Remembrance, and we always thought that these were well supported.

 

Busy weekend ahead. Detail marking out later this morning for the parade route, (which we have a four hour window to erect and strike down either side of the commemoration service) and then assembling the display in the parish church for 'our boys'.

[Mallard60022]

Where have all the Flowers Gone?

We will remember them.

Phil

[Andy Y]

A short bit of footage with a slightly different tale to tell of a cemetery at home which forms part of the end of the story of our Tackeroo layout.

 

 

High on the heathland is a Commonwealth War Cemetery with 354 graves from WW1 and is the resting place of several New Zealanders, a clutch of British soldiers but also, predominantly, German soldiers all alongside each other treated with the same care and respect. The German soldiers were held as POWs on Brocton Camp, the subject of Tackeroo and along with their New Zealand guards fell victim to the Spanish Flu with most of the headstones in the cemetery recording dates from September to December 1918. Few of these men fell in action but who may have survived if they had not been there.

 

On the 25th April each year there is a commemorative service on Anzac Day in addition to Armistice Day. A short distance from this site is the German War Cemetery with the graves of nearly 4,800 German soldiers killed in the two wars on British soil; both sites are maintained by the CWGC as with overseas cemeteries and memorials whose staff gave permission for the footage to be taken.

[HillsideDepot]

 

For us it's the uniformed youth organisations that are inspiring as they put genuine respect, thought, and feeling into it.

 

 

As an Explorer Scout Leader your comment means a huge amount to me. Yes, our young people are inspiring in how the conduct themselves at Remembrance Parades. The ones who are forever chattering and fidgeting stand still, commands which form part of our weekly ceremonies and become rather rough are suddenly sharp and precise. It does mean much to them, especially so as they reach their teenage years.

 

On a number of occasions we've formed up outside after the church service in pouring rain, and stood through the silence and the wreath laying getting soaked. Never a word of complaint from them but, no doubt, a silent thought for those who suffered so much more than a half hour soaking. 

And what always brings a lump to my throat; many of those we are remembering were the same age as the older Explorer Scouts. Young people that now have ambitions and plans, just like those a hundred years ago had ambitions and plans, only to have them cut short. 

 

We do remember them!

[brianusa]

I don't know if this is appropriate in such a thought provoking thread, but last night when I got home from work there were loads of fireworks going off all around.

The street light outside my house was out, we live in a wooded area with most housing half a mile or so away, so could clearly hear and see the flashes in the night sky.

Standing and watching for a short time the frequency of the bangs and flashes put me in mind of being either in a war zone or urban areas under bombardment.

I thought that it must have been awful during air raids for the civilian population, knowing that the the next bang you hear could be the last, all the time trying to live as normal a life as possible.

I've no doubt there are those on here can remember such things, I'm too young fortunately, and I think they also deserve a little thought at this time of year. Without many of these people there would have been no support and supplies for the fighting men, and I'm sure many lost loved ones both in conflict and at home.

Everyone who had lived through such times, and continue to do so more recently, deserve our utmost respect and gratitude.

Thank you to each and every one for our freedom.

 

Fireworks represent the past; 5th of November or the 4th of July.  It has now become a night of annoyance rather than celebration which certainly puts a damper on the occasion which begins early and stops late.  Certainly it has an effect on some who endured war, but as most celebrants are younger there are no lasting problems.  I was four when hostilities commenced so knew very little of what was going on but as I grew, it was not a fearsome time, rather a great adventure.  If you have seen the film, "Hope and Glory", you will have some idea!  Of course, apart from the usual deprivations, we were some of the lucky ones to whom tragedy never struck.  Our only casualty was my Grandfather, a C.P.O in the Royal Navy  who for the second time survived a sinking on "H.M.S Adventure", but he survived this war as he did the First.  My Father was a policeman in Plymouth until he joined the RAF and went to Canada for training and came back and flew Wellingtons.  During the latter part of the war my mother worked in a chemists shop which was her 'dig for Victory'.  All of which contributes to the fact that I am still here, much older maybe, but a survivor.  Sadly there may be tales of those less fortunate!

 

Brian.

[Guest CLARENCE]

[HillsideDepot]

Yesterday, at Paddington's platform 1, GWR honoured the Great Western Railway employees who gave their lives in WW1 by launching 800306 carrying all their names. Two thousand, five hundred and forty five names. There are some photos and a video on GWR's Facebook page and GWRHelp twitter feed.

 

GBRf has placed a poppy wreath around the AAR MU connection on 66715 "Valour" which was reported as being at Doncaster earlier.

[Andy Kirkham]

Nowadays it seems more-or-less obligatory to study the First and Second World Wars in schools, and I find this an intriguing contrast with my own school days (primary 1960-67, secondary 1967-74), because as far as I recall nobody so much as mentioned either World War to us in my entire school career. The history I studied was strictly bracketed between 1688 and 1815.

 

Perhaps WWII was still too recent to be regarded as proper history, but surely the Great War was long enough ago even then. I wonder whether it might be to do with the fact that many of us boys in those days were immersed in those wars through our parents' reminiscences, watching films on TV, making Airfix kits and reading the Victor, and that they were thought unsuitable for serious academic study because they were too much (sorry if this sounds flippant) "fun".

Edited November 10, 2018 by Andy Kirkham

[johnarcher]

My maternal Grandfather came through "the first lot" (as he called it) despite being in the 2nd Devons from 1914, a unit notorious for consistently finding itself in the wrong place at the wrong time throughout WW1. 

 

He was gassed a couple of times but caught a "lucky bullet" in March 1918 and had not been returned to action by the time they copped yet another packet in the July or things might have been very different.

 

As it was, he and his brothers all returned, with various levels of "intactness" when it was over. His family was therefore one of the fortunate kind, but they all lived with health issues of one sort or another, arising from their service, for the rest of their lives.

 

It's not just those who paid the ultimate price that we remember at this time of year, but those who carried on paying long after the shooting stopped.

 

John

True.

It makes me feel old with all this talk of Grandfathers and so on, but my Father was in the Coldstream Guards on the Western front from 1914-18. He died when I was only 8 (1958) so he never really told me about it, but once or twice I heard him talk a bit to other adults (for one thing about men drowning in the mud at Passchendaele, I recall) and ever since I have found films etc about WW1 harder to take than any other war films.

I was told that in the end he died due to long-term effects of gas from the war.

[newbryford]

Locos with suitable headboards carried this weekend at Blackburn Exhibition.

 

They will all be switched off at 11am tomorrow.

 

Mick

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Nowadays it seems more-or-less obligatory to study the First and Second World Wars in schools, and I find this an intriguing contrast with my own school days (primary 1960-67, secondary 1967-74), because as far as I recall nobody so much as mentioned either World War to us in my entire school career. The history I studied was strictly bracketed between 1688 and 1815.

 

Perhaps WWII was still too recent to be regarded as proper history, but surely the Great War was long enough ago even then. I wonder whether it might be to do with the fact that many of us boys in those days were immersed in those wars through our parents' reminiscences, watching films on TV, making Airfix kits and reading the Victor, and that they were thought unsuitable for serious academic study because they were too much (sorry if this sounds flippant) "fun".

 

Slightly OT but in 1966, when I took my A Levels, 'history' ended just after the assassination in Sarajevo so we didn't get any questions about the causes of the Great War, there were plenty of other things to hold the attention of those who put together the syllabus.   Perhaps like that because even then there were many around who had been part of that war and thus weren't themselves history.

[figworthy]

Nowadays it seems more-or-less obligatory to study the First and Second World Wars in schools, and I find this an intriguing contrast with my own school days (primary 1960-67, secondary 1967-74), because as far as I recall nobody so much as mentioned either World War to us in my entire school career. The history I studied was strictly bracketed between 1688 and 1815.

 

 

 

I was just behind you (O levels in 1977), for us O level history was British History 1789-1914, so we touched on the causes of the First World War, but not the war itself.

 

Adrian