Heljan announce re-tooled Class 86 in OO

[dmu 156]

Another gantry for the 'Making Tracks 3' layout. Just need to add the linkage to connect the tensioners to the catenary wires.

[big jim]

Is there much visually different between an 86/1 and 86/2?

 

Just won a Heljan model of 86214 ‘sans pariel’ that I think I can renumber to 86101 in its current guise, or have I dropped a ball!

 

 

I’m pretty sure it’s the older Heljan 86 with grilles in the wrong place, im not after 100% fidelity but I’m hoping there’s nothing glaringly obvious, there’s some mention of the bogies a page back, although at £110 DCC fitted I’ve not paid over the odds for it I recon and I’ve not got an AC electric in my collection

 

visually I can renumber it easily enough and add current ohle flashes and a cant rail stripe etc, pantograph looks poor though, can’t make out if it’s sitting too high (or even an old Hornby one!) 

 

I want to do 86101 as it’s the first and only AC loco I’ve driven (so far) which happened on the 20th anniversary of me starting on the railway and it was also the first AC loco over the cannock chase line which was a nice honour for me too

Edited September 6, 2023 by big jim

[woodenhead]

Different bogies - they had class 87 bogies, I am sure there might be underframe differences as well.

[big jim]

10 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Different bogies - they had class 87 bogies, I am sure there might be underframe differences as well.

just have to make sure I park it next to a platform then! 

 

I’ll have a look on Flickr at the bogies now I know their different 

EDIT: just had a look and the bogies are quite a bit different, I think I’ll just have to live with that one, definitely going to change that pantograph, looking at you @LMSfan72 if you have anything suitable in a 3D print

 

Edited September 6, 2023 by big jim

[woodenhead]

Some Hornby spares and a bit of glue for the bogies?

[big jim]

24 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Some Hornby spares and a bit of glue for the bogies?

yeah just been looking, bogie frames for the super detail 87 are between £10-12 depending on where I get them from so quite a viable solution

 

 

[adb968008]

I used Bachmann class 90 bogies for my 86101, from Bachmann spares.

 

You can strip out parts of the underframe from a class 87 chassis (a Lima one will suffice), and some bits on the 86 underframe need moving.

 

what ive done is 1 chassis, and have two bodies, one CS and another IC exec, though its on the “to be finished” pile currently.

 

I did investigate going the other route, and modifying a class 87 chassis with the Heljan 86 bits on the underframe, and putting the 86 body on it, this also looked a viable route, but needs cab internal mods.

 

its not too hard a job at all, but does waste a chassis unless you can get a 3D print of those two class 87 underframe boxes

Edited September 9, 2023 by adb968008

[wombatofludham]

I had managed to destroy a Heljan Mk1 Class 86 chassis so when I bought one which had been renumbered to an 86/1 I decided to use a Hornby new generation 87 chassis under the Heljan body and move the chassis over to replace the one I had destroyed.  It needed some careful Dremelling of the Hornby chassis ends and of course has the wrong underframe details but at least the bogies are right, and my other 86/2 now works again.

That said a pair of Class 90 bogie frames from Bachmann would be a lot cheaper, I just needed to get a chassis transplant to replace the one I destroyed.  Plus I now have a spare cross-arm pantograph for reuse, so a win-win.

[DY444]

On 06/09/2023 at 19:30, big jim said:

Is there much visually different between an 86/1 and 86/2?

 

Just won a Heljan model of 86214 ‘sans pariel’ that I think I can renumber to 86101 in its current guise, or have I dropped a ball!

 

 

I’m pretty sure it’s the older Heljan 86 with grilles in the wrong place, im not after 100% fidelity but I’m hoping there’s nothing glaringly obvious, there’s some mention of the bogies a page back, although at £110 DCC fitted I’ve not paid over the odds for it I recon and I’ve not got an AC electric in my collection

 

visually I can renumber it easily enough and add current ohle flashes and a cant rail stripe etc, pantograph looks poor though, can’t make out if it’s sitting too high (or even an old Hornby one!) 

 

I want to do 86101 as it’s the first and only AC loco I’ve driven (so far) which happened on the 20th anniversary of me starting on the railway and it was also the first AC loco over the cannock chase line which was a nice honour for me too

 

On 06/09/2023 at 19:46, woodenhead said:

Different bogies - they had class 87 bogies, I am sure there might be underframe differences as well.

 

Yes.  The 86/1 has a weak field case which other 86s don't have and this is located where the empty compressor shelf is on other 86s.  The exhauster side of an 86/1 is the same as other 86s.  Both sides of the 86/1 underframe are different to an 87.

[97406]

Re the class 86/1, Class 87 or 90 sideframes can be used, with class 90 in the example below. The underframe equipment does differ on the compressor side, but a drawing is available in the book “Model Railway Constructor Planbook 3. BR Electric Locomotives in 4mm Scale: No. 3”. You can use part of the existing Heljan compressor frame, though old Sausage Fingers here broke his and used a 3D print of one as the basis. https://www.shapeways.com/product/GR9J42LJH/1-76-class-86-underframe-with-two-compressors?optionId=301714643&li=marketplace

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by 97406

[big jim]

I think I might go for a bogie frame swap and i can live with the underframe differences I recon 

 

the donor loco arrived yesterday but I’ve yet to have a look at it 

 

EDIT: just got Bachmann class 90 bogie side frames from the spares department for £10 the pair which is less than 1/2 the price of the Hornby 87 equivalent 

Edited September 10, 2023 by big jim

[big jim]

Opened it up and really impressed, the pantograph isn’t as bad to look at in real life compared to the pics, runs lovely too

 

the only issue is the chip won’t read or reprogram from address 3, I think it might be a Hornby one, a lais chip I had spare will reprogram ok but the body won’t go back on as it’s a direct plug type rather than one with wires that can be tucked away 

[big jim]

All the bits have arrived to update it to 86101, the bogies will need a bit of work as the springs are moulded to the bodyshell of the Heljan loco but the bogies of the Bachmann spares, shouldn’t be too taxing once I figure out the best way to approach it 

 

the custom decals/nameplates have arrived from railtec too, might try and get it done Saturday evening or Sunday, I’ll add pics to my workbench thread  

[ThaneofFife]

Has "the kingsman" arrived yet?

[aureol40012]

Surprised that this new Kernow commission hasn’t been mentioned (apologies if it has elsewhere).  Would have thought it’ll be popular.

Edited October 4, 2023 by aureol40012

[brushman47544]

There is indeed a separate thread on the Kernow MRC limited edition, including confirmation that the cabs and pantograph will be corrected to match the prototype.

 

 

[aureol40012]

1 minute ago, brushman47544 said:

There is indeed a separate thread on the Kernow MRC limited edition, including confirmation that the cabs and pantograph will be corrected to match the prototype.

 

 

Ah, apologies.

[adb968008]

On 14/09/2023 at 21:13, big jim said:

All the bits have arrived to update it to 86101, the bogies will need a bit of work as the springs are moulded to the bodyshell of the Heljan loco but the bogies of the Bachmann spares, shouldn’t be too taxing once I figure out the best way to approach it 

 

the custom decals/nameplates have arrived from railtec too, might try and get it done Saturday evening or Sunday, I’ll add pics to my workbench thread  

I just used my drill with a grinding wheel head to smooth it off, from. £2 upwards for various sets on ebay. Well worth having.

Edited October 5, 2023 by adb968008

[big jim]

45 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

I just used my drill with a grinding wheel head to smooth it off, from. £2 upwards for various sets on ebay. Well worth having.

I used a razor saw to take the top of the springs off on the bogie frame, the remaining bottom half of the springs sit behind the body side moulding

Edited October 5, 2023 by big jim

[ThaneofFife]

that red stripe looks fine. hope they use the same method on the upcoming 'The Kingsman' unlike the terrible job Hornby made on 87 009.  hope a decorated sample pops up at Warley......

[Northern Electric]

On 04/10/2023 at 22:42, brushman47544 said:

There is indeed a separate thread on the Kernow MRC limited edition, including confirmation that the cabs and pantograph will be corrected to match the prototype.

 

 

Did anyone mention those same errors on the 86401 NSE and 86417 Kingsman samples too?  

It seems like Heljan chose the wrong body version for all three of these 86/4 special editions. Why!?  They do have the correct tooling to depict the locos correctly! 

I know they are only samplers, but putting out samples with major errors like that, apart from making them look like they don't really know what they're doing, will also put people off preordering. And surely they don't want that?

I'm in the market for 86401 but I'm not exactly filled with confidence so far, and thats coming from someone who has, and loves, their early edition AL6...

[61661]

13 hours ago, Northern Electric said:

Did anyone mention those same errors on the 86401 NSE and 86417 Kingsman samples too?  

It seems like Heljan chose the wrong body version for all three of these 86/4 special editions. Why!?  They do have the correct tooling to depict the locos correctly! 

I know they are only samplers, but putting out samples with major errors like that, apart from making them look like they don't really know what they're doing, will also put people off preordering. And surely they don't want that?

I'm in the market for 86401 but I'm not exactly filled with confidence so far, and thats coming from someone who has, and loves, their early edition AL6...

Thanks for the message. All three Class 86/4 rerun samples were produced by a new factory (due to the closure of the previous factory responsible for 86 production). Unfortunately they used some wrong parts for the first set of decorated samples and the samples were immediately rejected. Completely take your point about displaying incorrect samples and we avoid it wherever we can but at the time they were purely for illustrative purposes. New samples should be with us in the New Year that will have the correct combination of details for the locos modelled. 

[WILLIAM]

Any rough idea when they are due with retailers Ben? Just trying to budget around what looks like an expensive year. Thanks.

[61661]

1 hour ago, WILLIAM said:

Any rough idea when they are due with retailers Ben? Just trying to budget around what looks like an expensive year. Thanks.

No firm release date at the moment unfortunately. We hope to have new samples before CNY and that will give us a better idea of the likely timescale. As it’s a new product for the factory concerned we want to make sure they get everything as we want it. On the up side, we know the quality is higher than the previous factory so the disappointment of the closure will (eventually) be something of a blessing in disguise. 

Edited December 20, 2023 by 61661
Poor grammar

[Northern Electric]

Thanks for that. Good to know the tooling error are just pre production and being addressed. I'm really looking forward to seeing the updated samples!

On the topic of quality + new factory,  does that mean the quality of the livery application on the production versions will be better than these samples?

There are a couple of areas where it could be improved IMO. 

Someone else already mentioned the slightly thin/transparent looking NSE decals on 86401.  I noticed the yellow/dark grey border between the cab front/side on 86417 is a bit smudged in one place but nice and crisp in others... 

Both minor and fairly easy fixes I would hope/presume? But important if these models are to hold their own next to the Bachmann 90s and such like they will be compared against (and in many cases end up parked along side/displayed right next to.)    Cheers