'CHARD Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 Is that when you fell off the wagon? I'm not sufficiently bi(nary)-curious to add that contraption to the roster at any time.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Johnster Posted December 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2018 @ The Johnster, I suspect by stating this: Mr Chard is taking the Mickey, relating to an earlier post iirc. As I now realise; my stupidity as usual! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
2750Papyrus Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 A decent British outline electric turntable would be welcome from any manufacturer. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 A decent British outline electric turntable would be welcome from any manufacturer. Fleischmann made a decent electric turntable and a friend in Swanage makes electric turntables. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 What planet have you been living on since privatisation in the 90’s, the latest rail news reports on over crowding on trains. More and more people are now using the train instead of the road. Vast amounts of money are been invested in new trains that are quicker and can carry more passengers. Infustructure is being improved so more trains can run per hour on busy routes. I suspect that few of those "more and more people" are family units. Doubtless there are many commuters staring vacantly into their 'phones but with that, the point that few youngsters ride on the big railway before they experience a heritage line during a day out can still be valid. As to improved infrastructure and higher traffic on busy routes, it might even be true, but from my far off vantage point, I hear more grumbling about service disruptions than I do about the system being a well-oiled machine and have formed the impression that railway service might actually have been more reliable in days past. For me this is all hearsay since I have little-to-no experience of railways in Britain today. Those I hear from do. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
'CHARD Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 What planet have you been living on since privatisation in the 90’s, the latest rail news reports on over crowding on trains. More and more people are now using the train instead of the road. Vast amounts of money are been invested in new trains that are quicker and can carry more passengers. Infustructure is being improved so more trains can run per hour on busy routes. Most people who are train enthusiasts live near a railway and most railways are not steam, heritage lines will be busy because they are generally in tourist locations and are a small part of the British railway network. Heritage lines run a limited service each day based on time of year so the train is as busy as possible to maximise profit. Looking at my sons lego and what Lego sell for there remote control sets. The two main sets, one is a diesel freight train and the other is a electric passenger train. The steam loco is a Harry Potter train that isn’t motorised. F****ng hell, son, you don't half pick the wrong targets! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 27, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 27, 2018 Fleischmann made a decent electric turntable Decent in that they work well, but having that ruddy great ring of teeth exposed for the motor to run on looks dreadful.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted December 27, 2018 Share Posted December 27, 2018 F****ng hell, son, you don't half pick the wrong targets! I couldn't have put it better myself! I think the 'planet' Mr. Stationmaster lives on is rather closer to the real railway than most of us are to our model ones! (CJL) 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted December 27, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 27, 2018 Spare parts so when the material the model is made from fails you can get it working again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Covkid Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I'd be more than happy if they would do what DJM intended and developed a 74 from the 71. Funny how it has taken over 500 posts in this thread to mention it 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 What planet have you been living on since privatisation in the 90’s, the latest rail news reports on over crowding on trains. More and more people are now using the train instead of the road. Vast amounts of money are been invested in new trains that are quicker and can carry more passengers. Infustructure is being improved so more trains can run per hour on busy routes. Most people who are train enthusiasts live near a railway and most railways are not steam, heritage lines will be busy because they are generally in tourist locations and are a small part of the British railway network. Heritage lines run a limited service each day based on time of year so the train is as busy as possible to maximise profit. Looking at my sons lego and what Lego sell for there remote control sets. The two main sets, one is a diesel freight train and the other is a electric passenger train. The steam loco is a Harry Potter train that isn’t motorised. Others have responded to your ignorance of the very well respected Stationmaster far better than I could, so I will only say given that you are new here (at least based on number of posts, many of which seem to have been in the last 48 hours) it would be well worth your time to read various threads and note that some of the people on here (not myself for the record) have had/still have active rolls in the post-privatized railway. As for other comments, you seem to like to make generalizations that have little to no relation to experience. Living near a railway is not a requirement to be a train enthusiast, and particularly not a model train enthusiast. Yes, the issues regarding the modern railway are well discussed on this site and so aren't news. If anything, again as expressed somewhat by people on here, the people who are on the trains today aren't usually there by choice but rather most often work forces them to be on the train. That if anything likely means anyone using the post-BR railway is less likely to be interested in trains as our hobby, like any hobby, is supposed to be an escape from the real world and few people commuting into London will want a hobby that reminds them of their poor experiences. The key, sort of covered above but not explicitly, is that the way not just the railways have changed, but they way society has changed, means that most kids likely never ride a train anymore and thus for most kids a day out on a heritage line is likely their only "real" experience of a train. Otherwise their lives simply revolve around the family car, maybe a bus, and really maybe flying on holiday. The era of kids going with the family on the train for their holidays is long dead. Lego, while certainly an interesting sub-section of this hobby, is not a great example of what interests either kids or adults. The (often complicated) moving parts on a steam loco are the opposite of the simplicity of what Lego will be aiming for. But what is true, either as a very young child who looks in awe at a steam loco on a heritage line, or as a teenager / adult in model form (for the most part) as well, the moving parts and the steam and smoke of a steam loco make it far more "alive" than any diesel or electric loco and thus far more exciting for many of us. This is one of the reasons why steam models still continue to sell in significant numbers even though many/most of us on here are too young to have seen steam in regular service. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 One of the biggest issues with trains (both models & heritage era ) is trying to remain the relevance of trains in an everyday setting. It's not too far away from having the same relevance between a electric motor car, and a road going traction engine. Nice, but really? I'm lucky. I grew up with the social concept. But as we know the social landscape will continue to change. "Ok kids! Put down that MP3! Let's listen to some 78's!" "What? 1978?" You get the idea..... Tough calls on model railways. A diminishing client base, and an ever diminishing niche element. An issue on this forum will occupy a dozen pages about a 'shade of red' with many & varied arguments ensue about a subject, where the only witnesses are well into their dotage. I'm one of them as well..... If you get a rivet wrong on a Western model:- God help you! "I don't know why we're having decimal currency. Why don't they let the old people die first?" It's exactly the same problem with heritage railways. The social element of steam locomotives are long gone. Driving a steamer is now, in fact, a chore. Ask any roster clerk on a heritage line, and if they are honest, they will tell you that manpower element is the hardest part to fill. Sure, you'll get volunteers, but the ones who show up at 2am on a cold, wet day are dying out fast. I know. I'm (once again) one of them. Train rides are ok, but it's the dining trains and special events like Santa that pays the bills. Asking for a niche product, in a niche market, starts to push the desired item into the never-ever land. That folks, is the truth. Production meeting scenario. "Ok team. We've got a new project, to build & sell a Taff Vale 04 class, and a new colour version of My Little Pony". "How many?" Well, they made 40-odd of the original, and we plan a sales quantity of 5,000, at around £165 retail". "My little Pony?" We predict sales around the 15-million quantity, at about £15 retail" No guessing which project gets the green light.... Sorry to be so negative, but I've been at meetings like that. Happy modelling, Ian. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Funny how it has taken over 500 posts in this thread to mention it where was you then 500 posts ago! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 and back to the point of the thread...... A Finsbury Park white striped Class 31. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 What planet have you been living on since privatisation in the 90’s, the latest rail news reports on over crowding on trains. More and more people are now using the train instead of the road. Vast amounts of money are been invested in new trains that are quicker and can carry more passengers. Infustructure is being improved so more trains can run per hour on busy routes. Most people who are train enthusiasts live near a railway and most railways are not steam, heritage lines will be busy because they are generally in tourist locations and are a small part of the British railway network. Heritage lines run a limited service each day based on time of year so the train is as busy as possible to maximise profit. Looking at my sons lego and what Lego sell for there remote control sets. The two main sets, one is a diesel freight train and the other is a electric passenger train. The steam loco is a Harry Potter train that isn’t motorised. Read what I wrote - I specifically referred to families and the simple fact is that you do not see families commuting and you don't see them all that often on other rail journeys except perhaps at this time of year. The only youngsters who regularly appear to travel by rail are those going to/from school, college, and uni etc - but the place where you do see families is on the leisure/heritage railways particularly for things like Santa Specials. And those railways tend to predominate with steam traction. Having made quite a few journeys by rail in recent months I can assure you that both at stations and on trains, some of which were well loaded, I saw very few families travelling or having a day out. Incidentally I was working in the railway industry for 5 years following privatisation and it was little different then - our trains definitely got busier but families were far from usual among our passengers. And over my time in, and otherwise involved with, the railway industry over more decades than I care to remember one noticeable change, outwith specific promotions, has been a visible decline in rail travel by familiy groups with children. (and an increase, I think, in some teenage travel patterns again often encouraged by commercial promotions but more importantly by greater mobility for educational needs. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThaneofFife Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 better if we all met old skool style face to face in rooms than online. bet the manners would be improved 100% in some quarters........ 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandora Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) Steam: a model which is low in tooling and manufacturing costs with a low parts count, therefore inside cylinders, parallel boiler and if non-tank loco, toolng of the tender already exists. Diesel: Other than a few oddities, such as the Fell loco, DHP1 etc practically all main-line classes are covered or announced, my bias is a diesel shunter for this category. How about a class 13 Tinsley Master+Slave pair for release? Electric: an 86 based upon the class 87 tooling? Suprise Item Narrow gauge to run upon 16.5 mm track, effectively an entry into 7mm scale. Or, a loco which never left the Drawing Board, all CMEs had them Edited December 28, 2018 by Pandora Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold tomparryharry Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 Read what I wrote - I specifically referred to families and the simple fact is that you do not see families commuting and you don't see them all that often on other rail journeys except perhaps at this time of year. The only youngsters who regularly appear to travel by rail are those going to/from school, college, and uni etc - but the place where you do see families is on the leisure/heritage railways particularly for things like Santa Specials. And those railways tend to predominate with steam traction. Having made quite a few journeys by rail in recent months I can assure you that both at stations and on trains, some of which were well loaded, I saw very few families travelling or having a day out. Incidentally I was working in the railway industry for 5 years following privatisation and it was little different then - our trains definitely got busier but families were far from usual among our passengers. And over my time in, and otherwise involved with, the railway industry over more decades than I care to remember one noticeable change, outwith specific promotions, has been a visible decline in rail travel by familiy groups with children. (and an increase, I think, in some teenage travel patterns again often encouraged by commercial promotions but more importantly by greater mobility for educational needs. That goes back to the change in the social landscape Mike. People do indeed have family days out. Not on trains though. Into the MPV, where either Mum or dad can drive. In fact, more likely mum. That is why railway attractions are so messed up. It's the wrong target audience. I always stick to the mantra. What is your audience? So.... Clean & tidy, enjoyable, interactive, clean toilets clean cafeteria, and reasonably cheap & good quality tea or coffee. Now, I've slipped off topic, but you need to understand your clients first. Get that right, and you're halfway home. X-Box is directly advertised to the family experience. Don't believe me? Look at the telly.... I guess the next big railway thing is where the train set is operated by a games console. Cheers, Ian. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 A couple of other reasons for families to avoid rail travel Firstly,the expense....railcards notwithstanding...... and secondly the lack of secure baggage space.Yes,the MPV scores every time. Travelling to & fro Sheffield last Saturday,on the the 7:25 XC Plymouth-Edinburgh,there were singles and,couples with lots of luggage but no kids in evidence.The 17:29 EMT Sheffield-St.Pancras on return did exceptionally have one family group travelling to London. TBH,as a frequent traveller on the Birmingham-Sheffield route,the only family group occasionally seen is a mum and baby in pushchair on the Nottingham- Birmingham 170 and this only on shopping trips. The train isn’t an experience for recreational journeys.There simply isn’t the capacity. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 That goes back to the change in the social landscape Mike. People do indeed have family days out. Not on trains though. Into the MPV, where either Mum or dad can drive. In fact, more likely mum. That is why railway attractions are so messed up. It's the wrong target audience. Cheers, Ian. Are they? I think most heritage railways get it right. Those that haven't are long gone as the demographic changed. Think places like Steamtown Carnforth, Steamport Southport, Dinting, etc. The days where people were happy just to see a few locomotives and have a short ride are long gone I'm afraid. Look at the crowds at places like the NYMR and SVR which is virtually all families. Enthusiasts are definitely in the minority. My niece and nephew (10 and 8) have been on more steam locomotive footplates than they have been on regular trains. They hardly ever go anywhere by train as they get the bus everywhere as they are cheaper, more regular and reliable. Jason 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr chapman Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Wouldn't surprise me to see yet another golden arrow train pack. This time with a 71 as the locomotive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestburyJack Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 Read what I wrote - I specifically referred to families and the simple fact is that you do not see families commuting and you don't see them all that often on other rail journeys except perhaps at this time of year. The only youngsters who regularly appear to travel by rail are those going to/from school, college, and uni etc - but the place where you do see families is on the leisure/heritage railways particularly for things like Santa Specials. And those railways tend to predominate with steam traction. Having made quite a few journeys by rail in recent months I can assure you that both at stations and on trains, some of which were well loaded, I saw very few families travelling or having a day out. Incidentally I was working in the railway industry for 5 years following privatisation and it was little different then - our trains definitely got busier but families were far from usual among our passengers. And over my time in, and otherwise involved with, the railway industry over more decades than I care to remember one noticeable change, outwith specific promotions, has been a visible decline in rail travel by familiy groups with children. (and an increase, I think, in some teenage travel patterns again often encouraged by commercial promotions but more importantly by greater mobility for educational needs. Agree with what you observe regarding families.I appreciate it would only give a guide, but comparing numbers of Family railcards sold with Young Persons and Senior might give an indication. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted December 28, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) Are they? I think most heritage railways get it right. Those that haven't are long gone as the demographic changed. Think places like Steamtown Carnforth, Steamport Southport, Dinting, etc. The days where people were happy just to see a few locomotives and have a short ride are long gone I'm afraid. Look at the crowds at places like the NYMR and SVR which is virtually all families. Enthusiasts are definitely in the minority. My niece and nephew (10 and 8) have been on more steam locomotive footplates than they have been on regular trains. They hardly ever go anywhere by train as they get the bus everywhere as they are cheaper, more regular and reliable. Jason We enthusiasts tend to go when the families aren't there. Weekdays, and outside the school holidays. Nothing personal; I don't go shopping on saturdays either! I and a couple of pals generally have an intensive railway week in June and/or September, staying handy to our chosen line so we can get to see/photograph the activity that goes on before the trains start running. We were on the SVR this year (same excellent B&B as we used the previous time) and the Ratty in 2017 (staying in one of their Pullman Cars). There's more space, better opportunities to get photos without folk milling about in over-bright clothing distracting from the subject, and the chance to notice the interesting small things that are often hidden by somebody standing in front of them when there are hundreds of people around. TomParryHarry is right in his comments about people driving to railway attractions, though. Even where it's possible to get to a heritage railway by train, how many do? John Edited December 28, 2018 by Dunsignalling 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rising Standards Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 (edited) I guess the next big railway thing is where the train set is operated by a games console. I'm not sure about consoles, but in a world where kids now learn to operate touchscreen phones and tablets from a very young age, it's occurred to me that this could be a route to making model railways more relevant to a younger generation. The issue to my mind is that there isn't a solution in the UK market that's suitable for mass adoption: I've been using JMRI on an old PC and the Engine Driver Android app over the last 6 months, and have found it to be brilliant for what I want it to do. Install free software on some old kit, connect up your DCC system and away you go adding locos to your roster so that they appear on your devices. That's the theory, anyway. The learning curve is pretty steep, it's too complicated in both functionality and equipment required for a lot of users (I've barely scratched the surface of what its capabilities are), and with no manufacturer to promote it there's always going to be a limit to how widely used it can become. RailMaster can, I understand, allow control by mobile devices, but I don't recall seeing Hornby push this as a selling point. Also, additional licences have to be purchased to allow this, which is hardly an incentive to adopt it, and it still requires a PC for the software to run on. I don't have any experience of the Roco/Fleischmann Z21 system, but while that seems to be designed to be a full fat model railway control system like JRMI, having the wireless router built into the unit is an excellent idea. With the issues Hornby has at present this may not be a realistic idea for quite some time, but it seems to me that what's needed is a unit that does for model railways what the Scalextric App Race Control system does for slot cars. I'm imagining a starter unit that just handles wireless connections to phones and tablets and a DCC track supply and has a free accompanying app, giving straightforward control functionality along the lines of what you'd get from using the Gaugemaster DCC05 Prodigy WiFi unit with a Prodigy Advance 2 system and Engine Driver app. If you then want extra functionality, you connect a PC to the starter unit and use a modernised version of RailMaster. Developed and marketed properly with the UK's most well known model railway manufacturer's name on it, it might just have the clout needed to make this kind of system a mass market offering. Edited December 28, 2018 by Rising Standards 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest teacupteacup Posted December 28, 2018 Share Posted December 28, 2018 I didn’t say the under 50’s were not interested in steam and it was just a age of person based on when steam disappeared from British railways. I like Diesels more because i’m now 44 but grew up with Class 33’s, 50’s, etc when I was a boy. Just it’s quite evident when you go to exhibitions it’s the over 60’s generally modelling with steam and those under 60 modelling in Diesels. Yes most layouts in exhibitions are steam but for how many more years My main interest is 1980's, next is early 70's then early 90's. However, I really want to build a layout set in the early 30's Im 48, grew up with diesels and electrics, never saw a steam loco moving under its own power until I was 42. And, I have never had any interest in the 'real' railway! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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