Budget decoder

[sincedric]

I am looking at converting my layout to dcc, which budget decoder is good? I've searched a bit and I came up with these:

 

Dcc Concepts Zen

Hattons

Hornby R8249

Gaugemaster

 

Thank you!

[RAF96]

Hornby decoder is solid and NMRA warranted but very limited in which CVs you can change, so may not suit some locos that need fiddling with to run better.

 

Some shops decoders are said to be rebadged other makes.

Rob

[jpendle]

None of the above.

 

This one, Zimo MX600R 8 Pin DCC Decoder, can be had for 20 quid and will knock spots off the others.

 

Regards,

 

John P

[sb67]

Got to agree with John.  I've had good results with Hattons but only in some locos, not got on too good with Hornby, I havent tried the other two  I tried the Zimmo and the difference was massive.

Steve.

[NIK]

Hi,

 

Last time I tried them none of the above.

 

The Zimo budget decoders for £20 are in a higher league for features* and documentation.

*Need to check they are small enough and have enough current drive for your locos.

 

I've done hundreds of hours of high speed running with Zimo budget decoders without problems and also they have transformed locos that have struggled to run slowly with many other decoders.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

[RFS]

Agree with all previous posters regarding the Zimo MX600R. Also just as good is the Lenz Standard+ which is slightly cheaper but also physically larger, so you'll need to check if it fits in your locos.

 

Both these decoders are 8-pin with harness. For locos with 21-pin sockets Zimo is still the best with the MX638D also selling for £20, whilst for 6-pin locos the Zimo MX622N is £20 too. 

[Pete the Elaner]

None of the above.

 

This one, Zimo MX600R 8 Pin DCC Decoder, can be had for 20 quid and will knock spots off the others.

 

Regards,

 

John P

I completely agree with this.

The Zimo really is that much better than any of the 'budget' ones which are only about £2 cheaper.

I have not tried the Lenz Standard though. I will have to give it a try although I don't seem to buy decoders very often lately.

[Oldddudders]

Another thumbs up for Zimo here. It is also worth noting that some current Bachmann decoders are made by Zimo, and that fact is clearly stated on the packaging. I regret I cannot quote which ones, being away from home, but of course Bachmann products are widely sold, may be easier to find. I was delighted to find a Bachmann/Zimo decoder in Next 18 configuration at the West Somerset Railway earlier this year. It works perfectly in my Tillig HOm 2-10-2.

[NIK]

Another thumbs up for Zimo here. It is also worth noting that some current Bachmann decoders are made by Zimo, and that fact is clearly stated on the packaging. I regret I cannot quote which ones, being away from home, but of course Bachmann products are widely sold, may be easier to find. I was delighted to find a Bachmann/Zimo decoder in Next 18 configuration at the West Somerset Railway earlier this year. It works perfectly in my Tillig HOm 2-10-2.

 

Hi,

 

From my DCC notes the Bachmann 36-567 Next-18 DCC decoder is by Zimo.

I think the Bachmann 36-568 6 pin direct DCC decoder is also by Zimo. 

 

I've made a spreadsheet of the current consumption and the DCC socket type fitted  alongside the description of most of the locos I've current tested and added to the right side a table of what I think are the best budget decoders listing connector, maximum currents, function power outputs, function logic level outputs and cost.

 

So I can then look to see if any of those decoders will fit the bill (apart from size which I found is best done by taking the body off the loco to see).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

 

[34theletterbetweenB&D]

Agree with all previous posters regarding the Zimo MX600R. Also just as good is the Lenz Standard+ which is slightly cheaper but also physically larger, so you'll need to check if it fits in your locos.

 

Both these decoders are 8-pin with harness. For locos with 21-pin sockets Zimo is still the best with the MX638D also selling for £20, whilst for 6-pin locos the Zimo MX622N is £20 too. 

 

 

Which brings us directly to what mechanisms the decoders are to drive.

 

If these are current product with smooth running can motor + multistage drive trains derived from HO, then either the Lenz or the Zimo, determined by whatever physically fits best, and socket choice.

 

If it is earlier product with tender drives, power bogies, open frame motors with worm gear driving directly on the axle and all that, then Zimo all the way for the extra adjustments it offers.

 

(I wonder how long it will take Lenz to react to Zimo offering a variety of socket fittings on their 600 series decoder? The Lenz Standard/Standard + had the 'lowest price for an excellent motor drive decoder' slot to itself for what felt like a decade.)

 

And then there's the DCC system. If buying either of these decoders a competetent system able to address and programme any CV is the sensible starting point to properly exploit what they offer.

[Allegheny1600]

While I agree that the Zimo is an extremely capable decoder such that it's barely worth spending on anything cheaper**, I have had very good success with the Digitrax DZ125/DZ126 series decoders.

These are similarly priced and pretty darn small with either 6 or 8 pin plugs and around 1.1 amp max current draw so sufficient for most applications.

Hope this helps,

 

**false economy.

[pauliebanger]

 

Hi,

 

From my DCC notes the Bachmann 36-567 Next-18 DCC decoder is by Zimo.

I think the Bachmann 36-568 6 pin direct DCC decoder is also by Zimo. 

 

I've made a spreadsheet of the current consumption and the DCC socket type fitted  alongside the description of most of the locos I've current tested and added to the right side a table of what I think are the best budget decoders listing connector, maximum currents, function power outputs, function logic level outputs and cost.

 

So I can then look to see if any of those decoders will fit the bill (apart from size which I found is best done by taking the body off the loco to see).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nick,

 

What do you expect to be using Logic Level outputs for? (i.e are they relevant to your decisions?)

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

[NIK]

Nick,

 

What do you expect to be using Logic Level outputs for? (i.e are they relevant to your decisions?)

 

Best regards,

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

One thing it reminds me that although a decoder may have n outputs some of the outputs (logic level) may not be able to switch 12 volts and at the max current rating of the main function outputs.

 

It also reminds me to check if the logic level outputs are switchable to standard function outputs.

 

Also I'm hoping to add extra functions to some of my trains:

 

One for EMUs is in the form of on board DIY electronic third rail sparks unit where I'm hoping to use the Zimo advanced smoke generator features to control the level of sparks (the Zimo decoders can produce three levels of intensity of pulses on a function output depending whether a train is accelerating, coasting or braking). Surface mount Infrared LED and detectors might be hidden under + behind  the pickup shoe to detect the presence of the third rail.

 

One for my BR(SR) buckeye fitted locos and multiple units is DCC operated uncouplers (DIY probably).

 

Also for the far future I'd like to add working BR(SR) rolling headcodes - that may require a function output or to initiate a change from a headcode to 2 rectangles or back.

 

Since I have a lot of the above trains and MUs I would like to use budget decoders where possible - some even have extra function outputs that are not widely known.

 

With the help of MERG members I've started using surface mount device (SMD) hot air soldering and I'm hoping to be able to add new circuit boards to my RTR and kit built trains to use the extra functions some budget decoders have.

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Pete the Elaner]

One for EMUs is in the form of on board DIY electronic third rail sparks unit where I'm hoping to use the Zimo advanced smoke generator features to control the level of sparks (the Zimo decoders can produce three levels of intensity of pulses on a function output depending whether a train is accelerating, coasting or braking). Surface mount Infrared LED and detectors might be hidden under + behind  the pickup shoe to detect the presence of the third rail.

I am not sure the decoder is the best device to do this.

From what I have seen on the underground, 3rd rail sparks seem to occur at a particular place on the rail, either as the shoe makes/breaks contact or on the weld between conductor rail & the skid block (I am sure this has a proper name but I don't know it) at the end.

It may therefore be easier to generate the spark from the layout itself, activated by something mounted in the shoe rather than the other way around.

 

I will have 3rd/4th rail on my layout but had not considered this until now & recreating this is the type of thing which appeals to me. Thank you for inspiring me to consider it.

[WIMorrison]

The spark is caused by the connection being lost whilst power is being drawn by the traction motor therefore very easy to work out exactly where it will be as it has to happen at the end of a 3rd rail and where the train will be accelarating as this wheer current would be getting drawn.

 

I agree that an LED hidden on the baseboard, perhaps with a light tube guiding the light to where you want it might be a good way of doing it? Much better than it rtandomloy happening anywhere and at any time.

[Pete the Elaner]

The spark is caused by the connection being lost whilst power is being drawn by the traction motor therefore very easy to work out exactly where it will be as it has to happen at the end of a 3rd rail and where the train will be accelarating as this wheer current would be getting drawn.

 

I agree that an LED hidden on the baseboard, perhaps with a light tube guiding the light to where you want it might be a good way of doing it? Much better than it rtandomloy happening anywhere and at any time.

This is wandering from the topic a little & will be impossible to find when I want to refer to it!

How about another thread?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/140465-conductor-rail-spark/

[sincedric]

Thank you guys, amazing as always. I was going to try hattons but looks like Zimo is the way to go. I had a brief look on eBay Germany and they are selling it at 20 Euros, sounds like a good deal!

[NIK]

Thank you guys, amazing as always. I was going to try hattons but looks like Zimo is the way to go. I had a brief look on eBay Germany and they are selling it at 20 Euros, sounds like a good deal!

 

Hi,

 

I've read I think on this forum that Hattons decoders in the Blue packaging have been reported as having problems, with some decoders causing the loco to stop suddenly when it is supposed to be moving.

 

I didn't experience this with previous decoders in the Orangey packaging (but I didn't get on with the lack of detail on the CVs in the instructions).

 

 

Regards

 

Nick

[Sir TophamHatt]

FYI: I ended up sending my Hattons decoder back and replacing it with a Zimo.

 

Not saying they're junk, just it didn't work as expected in the loco I had it in (can't remember which now though!)

[BWsTrains]

I am looking at converting my layout to dcc, which budget decoder is good? I've searched a bit and I came up with these:

 

Dcc Concepts Zen

Hattons

Hornby R8249

Gaugemaster

 

Thank you!

Interesting that following posts dismiss the DCC Concepts Zen. I've several because I find them very good and they come with a small Stay Alive (#), Aussie Dealers carry them and hence warranty issues are easier here in event something fails. However, they have all been very reliable over several years(i.e. have not had a single one fail), I wonder if as they're not European they don't get much of a try? if people have had bad ones pls tell us rather than dismissing out of hand with no comment.

 

Another plus is the "ZEN Nano" very small so well suited to your small type locos, includes a direct plug in version (ZN8D) that I've used in on several of my models like class 57xx 

 

Note that DCC Concepts are very highly regarded WRT their Cobalt Point motors (BTW I've no relationship, just happy customer)

 

Regarding Hornby DCC, very limited CV addresses available

Hattons - elsewhere here I've seen some recent bad reports. Ones I bought some 4 years ago are still working fine but perhaps things have gone wrong in interim. Any current data?

 

Footnote: # SA not a big capacitor but helps cope with minor power breaks due to frogs, dirt etc.

 

Colin

[Roger Sunderland]

No contest. The Zimo budget decoder is in a different league to all the others.

[Nigelcliffe]

Interesting that following posts dismiss the DCC Concepts Zen. I've several because I find them very good and they come with a small Stay Alive (#), Aussie Dealers carry them and hence warranty issues are easier here in event something fails. However, they have all been very reliable over several years(i.e. have not had a single one fail), I wonder if as they're not European they don't get much of a try? if people have had bad ones pls tell us rather than dismissing out of hand with no comment.

 

Another plus is the "ZEN Nano" very small so well suited to your small type locos, includes a direct plug in version (ZN8D) that I've used in on several of my models like class 57xx 

 

 

 

Prices up here:  DCC Concepts Zen £18-19.  Zimo £20.  Difficult to understand why anyone wouldn't pay an extra 5%-10% for the best.

Stay-alive parts are available from Zimo for those who don't want to roll their own, Zimo's manuals include details of how to construct and connect stay-alive devices to their decoders. 

 

The Zen Nano isn't particularly small as decoders go - about twice the size of a Zimo MX616. And when it comes to small decoders, nobody seems to get near to CT Elektronik. 

[Izzy]

No contest. The Zimo budget decoder is in a different league to all the others.

Couldn’t agree more. Apart from it’s price being classed as a budget decoder seems mis-leading for those who have no experience of them which is a terrible shame. Apart from one or two ‘bells and whistles’ other Zimo’s have they are probably more highly specified/many more adjustment options than most other decoder makes. The motor control alone is on another level to any other save CT. This also applies to the other budget versions Zimo are currently offering. Madness to use anything else IMHO except perhaps CT where space is an issue.

 

Izzy

[Steven B]

Another vote for Zimo.

 

The Gaugemaster deocders are re-branded Digitrax ones (at least the 6 pin ones are); The Digitrax versions can usually be found a couple of quid less per decoder.