Modern Traction Kits

[richierich]

On 02/05/2020 at 18:20, crackedmember said:

 

I was looking for something else and this turned up.  I think I actually bought this new. 

I would probably complete it in the not quite blue/grey,  Leyland actually used the closest match they

had, which was Accrington Coporation Bus Blue,

 

A few photos of the kit. 

That is really interesting. Never seen the etched brass side version before. 

[andyman7]

Earlier in this thread I featured what I believe is a later MTK/Phoenix Class 416 that had been professionally built but needed some TLC as well as work to reunite the power and trailer cars that an auction house had managed to put in different multi-item lots (!). Due to being so well finished I left it in Green SYP but blue is really my period.

 

SInce then I have picked up a few more auction lots of 1970s/80s EMUs. which I finally got round to sorting through last month. I am trying to be quite strict on only keeping 'relevant' stuff so have previously disposed of some really nice items that were nonetheless not 'core' to my interests. This latest lot included a BR EPB and HAP, both conversions from RTR coaches using MJT parts and generally nicely done - but both of these are done by Bachmann to a quality far higher than any of us could reasonably expect, so they too were sold on. However, there was a BR Blue liveried MTK BR 1951 SR-Bulleid pattern 2 EPB - now that was something I could justify. It had been very neatly built but, as acquired, had various shortcomings that I could not overlook. One or two were easy to put right, for example the solebars and ends were painted black, a common error but of course they should be blue. The motor bogie was a Hornby RIngfield one but used a Class 29 bogie frame that despite a bit of trimming still looked absolutely nothing like the real things; it had no 3rd rail shoebeams; and most seriously of all, the roof was correct-ish for the BR pattern EPB but completely wrong for the SR pattern with its very distinctive external conduits and plumbing.
 

The problem with using Hornby RIngfield bogies is that the bogie frame is integral to the side and end support of the mounting, so simply cutting the sideframes off will not work. In addition it is made of a flexible polythene-like plastic which is not easy to glue. I have developed a technique whereby a U-shaped metal strip (brass or similar) is formed up and secured to the inside of the base of the bogie frame. The upper parts of the 'U' form new side supports, and provided the bogie frame base is roughened an epoxy glue will hold the strip in place as it is not put under any structural strain in normal operation. New bogie sideframes can be attached to the outer vertical faces of the strip (in this case MJT sideframes). Shoebeams and shoe fused complete a much more effective and EPB-like motor bogie!  

[andyman7]

MJT shoebeams were added to the other end. The cab windows had been unglazed but I used Glue-n-Glaze on these - just about at the limit of its workable area but much neater that celluloid behind the thick casting and much easier than trying to get glazing material to fit the aperture neatly. 

 

That left the roof plumbing - for this I decided to use the previously mentioned Phoenix/MTK model as a pattern alongside photos that invariably do not focus on the roof! The whitemetal torpedo roof vents were too well araldited in place to pull out so had to be snipped off flush - the line of these formed a suitable guide for the thinner roof cables that needed to be added. Some of the snipped-off vents were reused in the correct location on the centre line. Brass rod formed the thicker channels; Slaters micro-rod the thinner ones; and Microstrip for the upper rainstrip. 

 

The end result completely transformed the look of the model which now really captures the SR-built look, especially once a couple of coats of my specially mixed dark grey/blue-black roof colour had been added.

 

The Phoenix-MTK model had separately fitted grab handles and door handles fitted but I didn't have the patience to fit these to this MTK shell and also considered there to be a real risk of messing up the very neatly painted sides - so I drew doorhandles on with a silver Sharpie pen... the end result is a much more presentable 2 EPB Class 416 in blue that adds something different to the fleet, as well as upping my tally of MTK kits turned into presentable models!

Edited April 11, 2023 by andyman7
Spelling

[andyman7]

Some more pictures of the finished article and also the earlier Phoenix/MTK green one...

[roythebus1]

That's a nicely finished model.

 

Meanwhile I've recently had delivery of a box of Black Beetle motor bogies, including one for my MTK Cravens parcel unit. I've stripped everything back to bare metal, cut holes for the recess under the guards doors, holes for the fuel and water fillers both sides and started fitting steps. I'be drilled 0.5mm holes which will take elongated brass wire poked through the solebars to support nickel silver steps made from scrap etch.  I've also made a new underframe from .040 plasticard supported with some square plastic section along the sides. Inside the body shell are matching square sections so the underframe which wlll slide in from one end. I'm trying to work out the best way to do a removable section over the motor bogie in case that will ever need taking out for maintenance. Some pics below.

 

The MTK cast engine detail should provide more than enough weight  for the BB motor bogie! I'm undecided whether to use Lima sideframes or the MTK cast ones.

[cctransuk]

9 minutes ago, roythebus1 said:

That's a nicely finished model.

 

Contrary to 'common knowledge', most (all?) MTK MU kits could be built into very nice models - given the necessary input of time and skill. They were NOT Airfix-type kits, as many purchasers seemed to expect!

 

CJI.

[pete_mcfarlane]

43 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

Contrary to 'common knowledge', most (all?) MTK MU kits could be built into very nice models - given the necessary input of time and skill. They were NOT Airfix-type kits, as many purchasers seemed to expect!

 

CJI.

Any kit can be made into a nice model if you chuck enough of it away......

 

The problem is that people a see nice model made from a poor kit (with a lot of work) and buy the kit on the back of it. 

[roythebus1]

As a producer of cast metal kits during the 1970s I know all too well about the production of white metal kits. A lot of it is down to the skill of the pattern maker, the quality of information that goes into the research and the thought a to how the kit "should" fit together. Aluminium has advantages and disadvantages, the main problem being you can't easily solder it. It's easy to work with, maybe a bit too soft for model making, but won't stay together for too long no matter what adhesive is used.

 

Luckily I had some of the top pattern makers for my kits, Adrian Swain, Mike Shepard and a chap called Ian whose other name I forget. My bus kits didn't need much fiddling to make them fit properly as my pattern men made allowances for expansion and shrinkage during the casting process. My Met Railway F class kit was one of the first to use etched brass overlays for things like take sides. The MTK etchings were ok on some of them, but on the proposed 1938 tube stock it was the worst I've ever seen. As I mentioned elsewhere on here I was given his entire stock of 38 stock etches, they were only fit for scrap. Sadly I never kept one to show how awful they were.

[cctransuk]

4 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

Any kit can be made into a nice model if you chuck enough of it away......

 

The problem is that people a see nice model made from a poor kit (with a lot of work) and buy the kit on the back of it. 

 

I don't recall 'chucking away' anything from the MTK MUs that I built - including the hardboard floor.

 

CJI.

[hayfield]

54 minutes ago, cctransuk said:

 

I don't recall 'chucking away' anything from the MTK MUs that I built - including the hardboard floor.

 

CJI.

 

 

Those who were not around in the 60's/70's and used to kits of that era have a different view on old style kits, especially when they are used to high quality RTR stock and equally well detailed modern kits

 

In some ways some of the castings I have come across in MTK kits do deserve the stick they get. But back then this was the norm and some of us get pleasure in building the kits, which can be far easier than some of the more highly detailed etched kits around today

[47164]

A Class 128 emu I purchased a few years before the Heljan offering, caught my eye as I had never seen an mtk kit finished to such a high standard with respect to paint,lining and overall appearance , almost a shame after all the builder’s efforts that it sits on a Lima platform.

I have built other offerings of the 128 ie silver fox and craftsman but never attained a similar standard.

[roythebus1]

That really looks the part depsite being on a Lima chassis. I've never had a problem with them apart from the cheesecutter flanges. We had a problem with them on the MRC's New Annington which used f/s bullhead rail on pcb sleepers, the flanges rode on the sleepers. John Jesson took a set home and turned th flages and they ran perfectly after that.

[47164]

Class 24/1 as good as finished, really quite a nice kit…with the usual challenges. !!!  Sits on Hornby 25 bogie frames with the ring field motor and runs so well with the weight of the body.

 

 

 

[Captain Slough]

found on eBay, here's what happens when an MTK 24/25 is built WITHOUT care and attention... 

[Enterprisingwestern]

2 hours ago, Captain Slough said:

found on eBay, here's what happens when an MTK 24/25 is built WITHOUT care and attention... 

 

Don't let Gostude see it!

£299 without a shadow of a doubt.

 

MIke.

[Halvarras]

Confirmation that painting any model with a toothbrush is Not A Good Idea 😬!

[Northmoor]

1 hour ago, Halvarras said:

Confirmation that painting any model with a toothbrush is Not A Good Idea 😬!

Like so many MTK builds of the past, it actually looks like the builder did a good job of the build but a bad job of the painting.  The paint looks like there has been a reaction either between the green and whatever what was beneath, or the first coat/undercoat didn't key to the white metal and they've simple painted over it.

[andyman7]

38 minutes ago, Northmoor said:

Like so many MTK builds of the past, it actually looks like the builder did a good job of the build but a bad job of the painting.  The paint looks like there has been a reaction either between the green and whatever what was beneath, or the first coat/undercoat didn't key to the white metal and they've simple painted over it.

That's absolutely ripe for a strip and repaint. One of my MTK 25s came to me in a similar way (featured earlier in this thread but presented 'before' and 'after' here again)

[Halvarras]

Howes have this available at the moment......

 

https://howesmodels.co.uk/product/mtk-kits-mu83-derby-lightweight-dmu-rtc-ultrasonic-track-cleaning-unit-unmade-kit/

 

........although I must admit that I had no idea this two-car departmental was a full-size mobile Relco unit for the BR network (gee, I wonder how that worked then.....😜!)

 

Reminds me that a long time ago - must have been 1980s - I was presented with a pair of plastic Derby Lightweight bodyshells which I think may have been produced by Kirdon (??) - and I used them to create a model of this unit on Hornby Class 110 chassis. I built a fairly crude representation of the 'trolley' under the trailer car using whatever I had to hand, based on a rather vague photograph. I seem to recall that I managed to letter the thing, presumably by cutting up SMS or Mopok waterslide BR coaching stock transfers into individual letters. It was an interesting exercise - I wonder if it's still out there somewhere........oh well, not MTK so OT!

[Captain Slough]

10 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Like so many MTK builds of the past, it actually looks like the builder did a good job of the build but a bad job of the painting.  

Shame about the Lima Cl.33 motor bogie though. Wheelbase is too long so the wheel centres don't line up with the bogie axleboxes.. that would drive me mad

Edited June 3, 2023 by Captain Slough

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, Halvarras said:

Confirmation that painting any model with a toothbrush is Not A Good Idea 😬!

 

Back in the late 70's early 80's few had airbrushes, or even used primer undercoat, usually the tin of paint was both old and had skin on top of the paint and used paint brushes were the order of the day. Having the right shade of colour was hard enough let alone achieving a flat finish  !!!

 

How times have changed

[Halvarras]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

 

Back in the late 70's early 80's few had airbrushes, or even used primer undercoat, usually the tin of paint was both old and had skin on top of the paint and used paint brushes were the order of the day. Having the right shade of colour was hard enough let alone achieving a flat finish  !!!

 

How times have changed

 

Been there and done that, including in the 1970s building MTK Class 25, Peak and 119 DMU kits - preparation for painting  was filing down the epoxy resin overspill.......that was it! No rubbing down with abrasive paper, no wiping over with white spirit, no primer (never used it on Airfix kits so.....), and Sellotape sliced up on a piece of Perspex  (which reduced its adhesive power) used for masking, shock horror - yet despite masking on the blue for the diesels' full yellow ends and painting the DMU in blue/grey livery I don't remember the tape ever lifting the underlying paint. Needless to say all were painted with Humbrol authentic colours (yellow ends were standard No 8 gloss yellow) and the covering power of enamel paint back then was in a different league to current products.......as was its adhesion, judging from my inadvertent stringent test procedure.....😁!!

[47164]

Good call and notes. .and the joy of picking up complete mtk locos second hand, takes the pain out of building them sometimes , and allows the more pleasant task of repainting and glazing . Todays paints and adhesives make life so much easier even against Colin Massinghams curve balls. !!!

 

Cravens 105 , two car unit now on my radar, came  with under frames missing but then cost less than a fiver , so will be a bit of a hybrid, and to use some spare transfers is representing when some were parcels units in their twilight days in the 1980’s, and coming on nicely with Lima ho class 33 as the power unit.

 

[MarkC]

On 24/05/2023 at 23:31, roythebus1 said:

That really looks the part depsite being on a Lima chassis. I've never had a problem with them apart from the cheesecutter flanges. We had a problem with them on the MRC's New Annington which used f/s bullhead rail on pcb sleepers, the flanges rode on the sleepers. John Jesson took a set home and turned th flages and they ran perfectly after that.

Replacement wheelsets from Peter's Spares are a doddle to fit & improve both running & appearance.

 

Mark

[andyman7]

I'm not sure of the origins of this kit build of the Southern Region Inspection Saloon 975025 (the original converted from a Hastings DEMU Buffet Car) but this is a rather ice model: