Modern Traction Kits

[roythebus1]

All of this reminds me of the Anbrico DMUs and other rolling stock, including a ready-made Glasgow blue train.

 

Late 1960s, just after the invention of Protofour, a couple of us were working downstairs on a club project at the Central Hall exhibition. Opposite us was Protofour BLT with an Anbrico single-unit railcar. It looked very nice running on P4 track, except the wheels didn't line up with the axle boxes! Why on earth go to all the trouble to get the trak right then not bother about the wheels lining up with the axleboxes? It was a source of amusement and comments for the week.

 

BTW, I've just found my Anbrico railbus, must get that finished one day! and the Anbrico Sheffield tram, which I more or less finished many years ago and spent ages filling in the big gaps between the decks, only to find it should have been there anyway!  Oh well, out with the pan of boiling water for yet another rebuild!

[hayfield]

9 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

All of this reminds me of the Anbrico DMUs and other rolling stock, including a ready-made Glasgow blue train.

 

Late 1960s, just after the invention of Protofour, a couple of us were working downstairs on a club project at the Central Hall exhibition. Opposite us was Protofour BLT with an Anbrico single-unit railcar. It looked very nice running on P4 track, except the wheels didn't line up with the axle boxes! Why on earth go to all the trouble to get the trak right then not bother about the wheels lining up with the axleboxes? It was a source of amusement and comments for the week.

 

BTW, I've just found my Anbrico railbus, must get that finished one day! and the Anbrico Sheffield tram, which I more or less finished many years ago and spent ages filling in the big gaps between the decks, only to find it should have been there anyway!  Oh well, out with the pan of boiling water for yet another rebuild!

 

I wanted one of the Anbrico railbuses for a long time to go with my 2 MTK railbuses, first I found one which had no underframe details as it had been mounted on an H0 chassis, finally I was able to replace it with an unbuilt kit, I must get round to build it 

[kevinlms]

12 hours ago, roythebus1 said:

All of this reminds me of the Anbrico DMUs and other rolling stock, including a ready-made Glasgow blue train.

 

Late 1960s, just after the invention of Protofour, a couple of us were working downstairs on a club project at the Central Hall exhibition. Opposite us was Protofour BLT with an Anbrico single-unit railcar. It looked very nice running on P4 track, except the wheels didn't line up with the axle boxes! Why on earth go to all the trouble to get the trak right then not bother about the wheels lining up with the axleboxes? It was a source of amusement and comments for the week.

 

BTW, I've just found my Anbrico railbus, must get that finished one day! and the Anbrico Sheffield tram, which I more or less finished many years ago and spent ages filling in the big gaps between the decks, only to find it should have been there anyway!  Oh well, out with the pan of boiling water for yet another rebuild!

Perhaps, if it takes 60 years to make a model (and still counting) that has the correct wheelbase on the bogies, is an excellent reason for not worrying about such things! Reading obituaries here and elsewhere, suggest that many die without making dream models, 100% accurate.

[hayfield]

On 01/07/2023 at 21:13, roythebus1 said:

All of this reminds me of the Anbrico DMUs and other rolling stock, including a ready-made Glasgow blue train.

 

Late 1960s, just after the invention of Protofour, a couple of us were working downstairs on a club project at the Central Hall exhibition. Opposite us was Protofour BLT with an Anbrico single-unit railcar. It looked very nice running on P4 track, except the wheels didn't line up with the axle boxes! Why on earth go to all the trouble to get the trak right then not bother about the wheels lining up with the axleboxes? It was a source of amusement and comments for the week.

 

BTW, I've just found my Anbrico railbus, must get that finished one day! and the Anbrico Sheffield tram, which I more or less finished many years ago and spent ages filling in the big gaps between the decks, only to find it should have been there anyway!  Oh well, out with the pan of boiling water for yet another rebuild!

 

 

Just had delivered this morning an Anbrico 1936 GWR Diesel Railcar, surprised I got it for just under £37 inc postage, complete with instructions and still all wrapped up in tissue paper, I also have a Westward version of Number 18 where as this kit says its the 5-16 version. Will be interesting to see the difference 

[lofty1966]

On 05/07/2023 at 07:11, hayfield said:

 

 

Just had delivered this morning an Anbrico 1936 GWR Diesel Railcar, surprised I got it for just under £37 inc postage, complete with instructions and still all wrapped up in tissue paper, I also have a Westward version of Number 18 where as this kit says its the 5-16 version. Will be interesting to see the difference 

Totally different types.

[hayfield]

6 hours ago, lofty1966 said:

Totally different types.

 

 

I know !!

 

I bought both kits for several reasons, mainly as I like Rail Cars and rail busses. Also as a teenager I longed after these but could not afford them (I am not a good saver), but with Westward I have fond memories of both Puffers and its owner the late Chris Parish. Probably bought more for collecting rather than building. Also both seem to have dropped in value from the very high prices paid a few years ago 

[roythebus1]

The advent of the internet auction sites have greatly reduced a lot of the former "collectable" stuff.

 

Mind you, I'm sitting on a small fortune of GS Models bus kits if ever I get time to sort out all the parts and remember what goes with what kit. There's also about 20 Met Railway 0-6-2T kits.

[andyman7]

The internet has turbocharged market information but as time passes on there will be an adjustment in values - price being a function of supply and demand. As new superdetailed models of many obscure prototypes have come out, often modelled to unimaginable standards of fidelity, the 'heat' is taken out of demand for what may have been a premier model in its day but has now been surpassed in terms of realism.
Then the passing of time kills off the intangible brand 'premium' that a certain generation attaches to models. Anbrico, Dublo, Wrenn, Exley - all have a cachet to enthusiasts of a certain age but to my son (14 and a massive train enthusiast) these look old and outdated, not helped by being almost entirely stuck in the pre-1970 timeframe.

This does not mean they have no interest - I would love to acquire a selection of Anbrico DMUs, but the amount I might bid in auction will reflect current values, not what they were 'once' worth.

Interestingly, my son and I were discussing Accurascale models and we both agreed that they had the potential to become top collectables of his generation.

[Steamport Southport]

On 04/09/2023 at 16:20, andyman7 said:

 

Interestingly, my son and I were discussing Accurascale models and we both agreed that they had the potential to become top collectables of his generation.

 

I don't think they will unless they are of a specific livery that everyone wants and it's totally untouched in the box, which does defeat the object of having detailed models.

 

 

Even recent "limited edition" Hornby and Bachmann doesn't appreciate in value much and most of those have even been overtaken by price rises.

 

QEII Purple Bulleid's excepted. Anywhere from £500 to £1500.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/28056359836?iid=334583631138

 

Rapido APT-Es were going for ridiculous prices until they did a new batch....

 

 

I'm afraid the collectors market is probably dying out and will be gone within a generation or two.

 

 

Jason

[andyman7]

2 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think they will unless they are of a specific livery that everyone wants and it's totally untouched in the box, which does defeat the object of having detailed models.

 

 

Even recent "limited edition" Hornby and Bachmann doesn't appreciate in value much and most of those have even been overtaken by price rises.

 

QEII Purple Bulleid's excepted. Anywhere from £500 to £1500.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/28056359836?iid=334583631138

 

Rapido APT-Es were going for ridiculous prices until they did a new batch....

 

 

I'm afraid the collectors market is probably dying out and will be gone within a generation or two.

 

 

Jason

You may be right, but the point I observed is that my son and his cohorts really don't have any interest in purple QEII models or anything like that - they like modern traction, or the modern versions of classic traction like Class 37s.

Value is not just tied to mint and boxed items. Back in the 70s and 80s, unboxed Dublo EMUs, E3002s, Triang EM2s, R156 EMUs, BR liveried Scotsmans etc sold for (then) decent money because they were the only way to get RTR models of these types of trains.

 

The Accurascale models are not certificated Limited Editions but very decent models of an expanding range of prototypes. As with Dublo, Triang, etc, I don't think they'll all be collectable - but I can imagine that in 30 years time, unless there has been a torrent of subsequent releases, a decent condition Accurascale Class 66 or 92 will have a market that frankly yet another 9F by Bachmann or Hornby will not. It helps that they are made in limited quantities.

[McC]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

The Accurascale models are not certificated Limited Editions but very decent models of an expanding range of prototypes. As with Dublo, Triang, etc, I don't think they'll all be collectable - but I can imagine that in 30 years time, unless there has been a torrent of subsequent releases, a decent condition Accurascale Class 66 or 92 will have a market that frankly yet another 9F by Bachmann or Hornby will not. It helps that they are made in limited quantities

 

Some are. Most of the exclusives are certified limited editions in fact. 

[andyman7]

55 minutes ago, McC said:

 

Some are. Most of the exclusives are certified limited editions in fact. 

Sorry, I was referring to the general range, the point I want to draw out is that, over the years, what has become desirable/collectable often has little relation to whether it is described as 'Limited Edition' and comes with a pretty little numbered certificate, and instead is more about an item that fills a niche for which demand outstrips supply.

Edited September 6, 2023 by andyman7

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, andyman7 said:

You may be right, but the point I observed is that my son and his cohorts really don't have any interest in purple QEII models or anything like that - they like modern traction, or the modern versions of classic traction like Class 37s.

Value is not just tied to mint and boxed items. Back in the 70s and 80s, unboxed Dublo EMUs, E3002s, Triang EM2s, R156 EMUs, BR liveried Scotsmans etc sold for (then) decent money because they were the only way to get RTR models of these types of trains.

 

The Accurascale models are not certificated Limited Editions but very decent models of an expanding range of prototypes. As with Dublo, Triang, etc, I don't think they'll all be collectable - but I can imagine that in 30 years time, unless there has been a torrent of subsequent releases, a decent condition Accurascale Class 66 or 92 will have a market that frankly yet another 9F by Bachmann or Hornby will not. It helps that they are made in limited quantities.

 

I mean collecting in the proper sense of buying one of every model.

 

You could easily buy everything that Hornby Dublo, Triang, Wrenn, Airfix/GMR, Mainline, original Dapol, etc. made. You could even manage 1970s to late 1980s Hornby reasonably well.

 

Good luck with that with modern manufacturers. I think Hornby have something like 200 steam locomotives alone in it's current catalogue. Bachmann something similar. 

 

How many wagons have Accurascale made for example? Even one each of the Cauldron wagon packs would set you back hundreds.

 

Buying one model is not collecting.

 

 

Jason

[andyman7]

27 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I mean collecting in the proper sense of buying one of every model.

 

You could easily buy everything that Hornby Dublo, Triang, Wrenn, Airfix/GMR, Mainline, original Dapol, etc. made. You could even manage 1970s to late 1980s Hornby reasonably well.

 

Good luck with that with modern manufacturers. I think Hornby have something like 200 steam locomotives alone in it's current catalogue. Bachmann something similar. 

 

How many wagons have Accurascale made for example? Even one each of the Cauldron wagon packs would set you back hundreds.

 

Buying one model is not collecting.

 

 

Jason

I agree with you there, that's not going to happen with modern ranges (although getting a Dublo Rail Cleaning Wagon was never easy). 

I mean individual models being sought after long after they were made, and the fact that by the mid-century the baton will have moved on from Anbrico, Wrenn, Exley, Dublo/Triang rarities etc to the pick of what we now consider the super-detail era.

[Michael Hodgson]

30 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

You could easily buy everything that Hornby Dublo, Triang, Wrenn, Airfix/GMR, Mainline, original Dapol, etc. made. You could even manage 1970s to late 1980s Hornby reasonably well.

 

Speak for yourself.

My budget won't run to that

[Northmoor]

35 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Good luck with that with modern manufacturers. I think Hornby have something like 200 steam locomotives alone in it's current catalogue. Bachmann something similar. 

 

When Lima started with Limited Editions of their diesels in a big way, there certainly were people who collected them.  A friend knew a guy who had Lima boxes stacked halfway up the wall for most of the length of a decent sized room; he apparently bought every 47 he could and most of them never left their boxes or were even looked at.

[97406]

All my limited editions get altered! Am I doing it right?

[hayfield]

5 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

I don't think they will unless they are of a specific livery that everyone wants and it's totally untouched in the box, which does defeat the object of having detailed models.

 

 

Even recent "limited edition" Hornby and Bachmann doesn't appreciate in value much and most of those have even been overtaken by price rises.

 

QEII Purple Bulleid's excepted. Anywhere from £500 to £1500.

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/28056359836?iid=334583631138

 

Rapido APT-Es were going for ridiculous prices until they did a new batch....

 

 

I'm afraid the collectors market is probably dying out and will be gone within a generation or two.

 

 

Jason

 

 

Jason

 

I agree with you on your observations, I prefer kit built locos and until recently many fetched silly prices, well I refused to play the game in the hope I might find the odd bargain. Over the past 5 years I have seen prices tumble, for me it started with K's 42/52/72xx they always fetched over £100, now 2 a penny. Likewise Ambrico rail car and flying bananas were like hens teeth, I now have both brought cheaply. Perseverance kits were out of my range until recently, I have a few now including a twin railcar

 

As for RTR I kept well away for the desire to collect Wrenn locos, I always thought the bubble would burst when those of my age stopped paying silly money

 

Having said all of this, when a rare and mint example of either a kit or RTR model is up for sale they can go for silly money. The flip side is there are some great bargains about these days

[Enterprisingwestern]

3 hours ago, 97406 said:

All my limited editions get altered! Am I doing it right?

 

Most definitely.

 

Mike.

[Northmoor]

2 hours ago, hayfield said:

I agree with you on your observations, I prefer kit built locos and until recently many fetched silly prices, well I refused to play the game in the hope I might find the odd bargain. Over the past 5 years I have seen prices tumble, for me it started with K's 42/52/72xx they always fetched over £100, now 2 a penny. Likewise Ambrico rail car and flying bananas were like hens teeth, I now have both brought cheaply. Perseverance kits were out of my range until recently, I have a few now including a twin railcar

 

As for RTR I kept well away for the desire to collect Wrenn locos, I always thought the bubble would burst when those of my age stopped paying silly money

 

Having said all of this, when a rare and mint example of either a kit or RTR model is up for sale they can go for silly money. The flip side is there are some great bargains about these days

Although they are only additions to the Round Tuit pile so far, I've done similar in acquiring the kits that I envied the serious modellers building 30-40 years ago.

 

In the last year I bought a K's 42xx like yours, complete and not started for about £40.  I have an MTK Class 24 (mentioned before on this thread) that I think was £20; I paid similar for a complete un-built Q Kits LMS 10000.  A Q Kits body of "Falcon" came from a swapmeet stand for £3.  I think Dad has a Little Engines D16 "Claud", part-built but complete, which he only paid about £20 for.

[hayfield]

11 hours ago, Northmoor said:

Although they are only additions to the Round Tuit pile so far, I've done similar in acquiring the kits that I envied the serious modellers building 30-40 years ago.

 

In the last year I bought a K's 42xx like yours, complete and not started for about £40.  I have an MTK Class 24 (mentioned before on this thread) that I think was £20; I paid similar for a complete un-built Q Kits LMS 10000.  A Q Kits body of "Falcon" came from a swapmeet stand for £3.  I think Dad has a Little Engines D16 "Claud", part-built but complete, which he only paid about £20 for.

 

 

I recently bought an early Southeastern Finecast (not the revised version) un-built kit without a chassis for £9.50 + postage (£4.75)  which I thought was a steal, a box would cost me £5 or £6

 

I am in the process of improving my stash of built and un-built kits and thinning out what I own, I have 2 King Arthurs already, so I will be selling one

 

One of my existing locos does not have a box, so the box is going

Both locos are built again one will be sold

I have 3 etched chassis, so the one I sell will have a chassis

One of the chassis are motorised with Romford's and a D11, another has a set of Romford's so I will have 2 chassis with wheels 

I also have one 5000 gal tender less wheels

 

I would like to think even without wheels I could sell the surplus loco and chassis and the spare tender top for at least what I paid for the new kit.

 

The question is do I need two King Arthurs, so I may be selling a second one as well ?

[pete_mcfarlane]

15 hours ago, Northmoor said:

When Lima started with Limited Editions of their diesels in a big way, there certainly were people who collected them.  A friend knew a guy who had Lima boxes stacked halfway up the wall for most of the length of a decent sized room; he apparently bought every 47 he could and most of them never left their boxes or were even looked at.

I remember my local model shop owner saying that people had standing orders for every new Lima diesel, and then started to get into financial trouble when the numbers of locos being produced shot up and their bank account couldn't keep up. 

 

[roythebus1]

I cleaned up my Anbrico railbus and ran it at the Folkestone MRC the other week. It generated a lot of interest as very few people there had any idea what it was. Most thought it was a motorised Airfix railbus. and yes, I've got one of those with the eAMES chassis with X04 motor and another chassis going spare. There's a part-built Kitmaster Beyer-Garrett in stock as well. And the MTK Cravens parcel car has recently acquired a Black Beetle motor bogie and footsteps. :)

 

[andyman7]

3 hours ago, pete_mcfarlane said:

I remember my local model shop owner saying that people had standing orders for every new Lima diesel, and then started to get into financial trouble when the numbers of locos being produced shot up and their bank account couldn't keep up. 

 

It's quite interesting to see that the values of late issue Lima models have held up to a degree. No-one's going to retire on them but a ballpark rate for them is around £50-£70 compared to the £30-£50 that is average dealer price for the earlier unlimited releases. They fill a gap for those who don't want to go down the £150+ superdetail route. 

[andyman7]

I ended up picking up a couple of job lots of MTK kits at auction a couple of weeks back, plus 3 Q kits. The shape of the Q kits Warship body looks suspiciously like the original prototype catalogue images used as for the Lima Warship in 1980...note that the resin body had already been cleaned up and primed as acquired, this one I may be compelled to have a go at finishing.

Edited October 8, 2023 by andyman7