Hornby - New tooling - Large Prairie

[Miss Prism]

22 minutes ago, 7007GreatWestern said:

Nice to see that Hornby have depicted the cab doors as black which is correct.

 

4144's door is black, 4141's is green

 

(I suspect green is correct for the GWR era.)

 

[7007GreatWestern]

Thanks for that Miss P.

 

As you say, 4144's doors (as preserved) were black when it wore the postwar GWR livery:-

 

 

Of course this isn't a definitive answer since this is a loco in preservation where liberties are often taken!

 

The following website suggests that the front and sides of the cab should be green and the rear face of the cab should be black:-

 

http://www.gwr.org.uk/liveriesloco1942.html

 

Here's the relevant part:-

"A 1947 Swindon paint specification indicates that fittings on the tops of pannier and saddle tanks were in green. Tops and fittings on side tank locos remained black. In the same specification, green is cited for "cabsides front and back (inside and outside)" but black for "bunker coal space"."

 

If this is correct, Hornby appear to have got it 'wrong way round' with the rear of the cab being green and the front black:-

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by 7007GreatWestern

[Miss Prism]

It is difficult to tell exactly what colour the front of Hornby's cab is, but it should be green. Hornby's face of the rear of the cab is green, as I think it should be. It is difficult to tell what colour Hornby has given the outside face of its cab door.

 

The 1947 Swindon spec is somewhat ambiguous in its sloppy use of 'bunker coal space'. For enclosed cab tank engines, I do not believe this extended to the outside rear face of the cab, and I should perhaps add that caveat to the livery page of gwr.org. It is possible the ambiguity in the late Swindon spec attempts to address a difference in approach in earlier GWR times between Swindon and Wolverhampton, with the latter possibly using black for the outside rear face of the cab. (It's anyone's guess what Caerphilly did.)

 

The other area of current debate concerns the front face of the bunker inside the cab of tank engines. Ian Rathbone's current thinking, who tends to be my go-to guy on such matters, is that this was probably green. Whether this applies to open-cab tanks in earlier times is perhaps more debatable.

 

It is possible that Didcot, Tyseley and Bewdley have slightly different views on these arcane livery issues.

 

Edited April 29, 2019 by Miss Prism

[The Johnster]

I don’t think it’s just you, Captain, this looks like a much better colour.  I’m looking forward to seeing the fully lined BR version, even if it is too late for my period!  If H are 

 

But it’s difficult to be objective about colour, and the real thing could look washed out and pale in some lighting, complicated by it being sometimes a bit faded anyway.  Weathering tends to make the colour look a bit lighter as well.  

[melmerby]

56 minutes ago, The Johnster said:

I don’t think it’s just you, Captain, this looks like a much better colour.  I’m looking forward to seeing the fully lined BR version, even if it is too late for my period!  If H are 

 

But it’s difficult to be objective about colour, and the real thing could look washed out and pale in some lighting, complicated by it being sometimes a bit faded anyway.  Weathering tends to make the colour look a bit lighter as well.  

Which should be a different shade of Brunswick (Middle Chrome Green)

[Hilux5972]

Yes the cab front is painted black. Hopefully Hornby realise this and correct it. Both samples are like this. 

[The Johnster]

Cab front and rear should be green for all green liveries, GW or BR, for these locos for all post 1923 GW locos.  I am less certain about the insides of bunkers, or whether the lower part of the cab rear is green or black, but my usual practice (which I will be happy to correct if it is wrong) is to paint the interior of bunkers black, but the exterior green including the edges, and cab rears green down to the ‘coal line’.  Inside face of the lamp guard is green.  

 

This applies to small and large prairies, 56xx, and green liveried panniers (which includes some 54/64xx in post 1956 BR liveries) and 14xx.  The panniers, 14xx, and earlier period others do not have lamp guards.  Green liveries panniers seem to have varied a little  in the matter of what colour the tank fronts are painted. 

 

Side tank tops are black, panniers are green for green liveries. 

Edited April 29, 2019 by The Johnster

[Neal Ball]

These 61xx look great - a couple will certainly be en route to Henley.

 

whats happened to the Dapol version? Other than them saying, we are still doing it, it’s gone very quiet. I’m not complaining though as based on the Engine Shed photos, Hornby will be getting my cash.

[The Johnster]

My impression, no more than that, is that H have well and truly beaten Dap to the punch, and that Dap will quietly drop their large prairie and concentrate on the mogul, perhaps using the mech to follow up with a Manor. 

[Steamport Southport]

I cant see Dapol dropping their model. Slightly different business models.

 

Dapol tend to release short runs of a few hundred of each model with a variety of different identities whereas Hornby usually release a lot of a small amount of identities. Look at the Westerns and Class 73s for example. There are loads of them. Compare that to how many different Kings and Castles Hornby have made over the last few years.

 

 

Jason

Edited May 2, 2019 by Steamport Southport

[The Johnster]

One wonders who’s going to buy it unless it’s either significantly better than H’s, significantly cheaper, or both.  The first is possible; Dap can do very good stuff when they put their minds to it and they issued a statement a while back saying that they were aware of Hornby’s announced loco but were going ahead anyway.  

 

The second is a tougher call...

 

I genuinely wish them the best luck possible with it; my take on the situation is that a variety of successful firms make for a healthy market more likely to produce the models I really want for me.  Inevitably, this means duplications.  

 

Perhaps Dap’s shorter runs will mean that smaller wheeled and/or bigger boilered varieties could appear!  None of these classes were built in the numbers that the visually identical 5101/61xx were, though, or had the geographical spread of the 5101s.  This doesn’t seem to prevent obscure prototypes getting to market and doing well, mind...

 

 

 

[Hilux5972]

First image of the BR Versions from Kernows new shop opening. Looking good! 

[adb968008]

6 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

First image of the BR Versions from Kernows new shop opening. Looking good! 

Yes looked at these today, very nice job.

Hornby has clearly put a lot of emphasis into quality of the paint finish, across the range.. no more washed out green.

 

The peckett is mostly metal... inc the boiler, very weighty.

 

The LMS brake van is just visible, there’s a ton of separate parts on that, I suspect this will take a lot of demand considering how widespread they were, I know i’ll be up for a few.

 

The 61xx is a really nice job, though like the terrier, I’ll hit pause as i’m not keen to just upgrade for upgrades sake, when so much new stuff is coming on stream,  however this is a very credible model and they’ve done a really good job on this. The black one, ex-works condition really stands out and the finish is nice, not too dull not too shiny.

[Hilux5972]

Definitely agree about the green paint colour. Hopefully this flows down the line to other models like the Kings that are terribly pale! 

[adb968008]

10 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Definitely agree about the green paint colour. Hopefully this flows down the line to other models like the Kings that are terribly pale! 

Agreed..

 

the king is a really nice model, let down by paint.

if it was finished like their recent Castle was it’d be fantastic.

[The Johnster]

15 hours ago, Hilux5972 said:

Definitely agree about the green paint colour. Hopefully this flows down the line to other models like the Kings that are terribly pale! 

Hopefully not; that would be very messy!

 

Oh, I see...

[tomparryharry]

On ‎02‎/‎05‎/‎2019 at 16:56, The Johnster said:

One wonders who’s going to buy it unless it’s either significantly better than H’s, significantly cheaper, or both.  The first is possible; Dap can do very good stuff when they put their minds to it and they issued a statement a while back saying that they were aware of Hornby’s announced loco but were going ahead anyway.  

 

The second is a tougher call...

 

I genuinely wish them the best luck possible with it; my take on the situation is that a variety of successful firms make for a healthy market more likely to produce the models I really want for me.  Inevitably, this means duplications.  

 

Perhaps Dap’s shorter runs will mean that smaller wheeled and/or bigger boilered varieties could appear!  None of these classes were built in the numbers that the visually identical 5101/61xx were, though, or had the geographical spread of the 5101s.  This doesn’t seem to prevent obscure prototypes getting to market and doing well, mind...

 

 

 

 It looks as though I will be having the Hornby version. Having publicly saying I will 'be in' for the Dapol version, I'll be having one of those as well. That said, if either one fails to appeal, then the wallet stays shut.

 

Ian.

[Guest]

On 05/04/2019 at 23:32, 7007GreatWestern said:

Here is some film taken earlier today of two "Swindon 2 cylinder taper boiler 4-6-0s indistinguishable to all but a very few".

 

 

 

Those of you unable to distinguish between them are politely invited to visit this website where you might find assistance:-

 

https://www.specsavers.co.uk/stores

 

 

Thanks for sharing the video here. It's much appreciated.

[The Johnster]

On 03/05/2019 at 22:11, tomparryharry said:

 It looks as though I will be having the Hornby version. Having publicly saying I will 'be in' for the Dapol version, I'll be having one of those as well. That said, if either one fails to appeal, then the wallet stays shut.

 

Ian.

It is of course possible that Dapol will 'tweak' theirs in a different direction, to represent earlier locos like the Churchward 3100s.  These had no sliding cab shutters, a straight drop as opposed to curve on the frames ahead of the cylinders, no outside steam pipes, and no lamp iron protector plate on the bunker; I believe the cab roof profile was different as well, and of course in the early days there was no top feed attached to the safety valve cover, a quite different appearance.

 

Or a 3150, using the no.4 boiler from the mogul.  

 

There are also livery variations to consider; I'd find a lot of trouble resisting Barry's 4162 in unlined green early 1948 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' Egyptian Serif!  Maybe I've written Dap off prematurely.  But the Baccy 94xx must take precedence (I've made such a public fuss over this that I am duty and honour bound to have it), and I have told myself I'm not buying any more new locos until this is in my sweaty little paws.  By that time both large prairies will be 'out', reviewed, commented on, eulogised, criticised taken to bits, examined, hopefully re-assembled, and will be known entities.  

 

I am pushing it a little justifying one on Cwmdibath (4162 would have to have a through duty from Barry concocted for it), so two are unlikely.  I have an old Airfix, which runs, albeit not to my standards, already.  My final decision is likely to be 'informed' by price, reported slow running quality, and availability at the time.  It is unlikely that I'll be buying either as soon as they're in the shops.

 

And, like your good self, my wallet won't be opening for either unless they satisfy minimum standards, especially of running at slow speeds.  The Hornby already appeals from the photos!

[Hilux5972]

Dapol have already stated they are staying the course and not changing theirs to a different version. This may change but at this point it hasn’t. 

[tomparryharry]

10 hours ago, The Johnster said:

It is of course possible that Dapol will 'tweak' theirs in a different direction, to represent earlier locos like the Churchward 3100s.  These had no sliding cab shutters, a straight drop as opposed to curve on the frames ahead of the cylinders, no outside steam pipes, and no lamp iron protector plate on the bunker; I believe the cab roof profile was different as well, and of course in the early days there was no top feed attached to the safety valve cover, a quite different appearance.

 

Or a 3150, using the no.4 boiler from the mogul.  

 

There are also livery variations to consider; I'd find a lot of trouble resisting Barry's 4162 in unlined green early 1948 'BRITISH RAILWAYS' Egyptian Serif!  Maybe I've written Dap off prematurely.  But the Baccy 94xx must take precedence (I've made such a public fuss over this that I am duty and honour bound to have it), and I have told myself I'm not buying any more new locos until this is in my sweaty little paws.  By that time both large prairies will be 'out', reviewed, commented on, eulogised, criticised taken to bits, examined, hopefully re-assembled, and will be known entities.  

 

I am pushing it a little justifying one on Cwmdibath (4162 would have to have a through duty from Barry concocted for it), so two are unlikely.  I have an old Airfix, which runs, albeit not to my standards, already.  My final decision is likely to be 'informed' by price, reported slow running quality, and availability at the time.  It is unlikely that I'll be buying either as soon as they're in the shops.

 

And, like your good self, my wallet won't be opening for either unless they satisfy minimum standards, especially of running at slow speeds.  The Hornby already appeals from the photos!

 

I never, ever thought Hornby would do this. They have indeed gone up in my estimation. From the photos I've seen here, the wheel rims and coupling rod nuts will need toning down, but I'm probably getting ahead of myself here. I also said I thought Dapol would be first to market, and publicly said I'd be buying one or two. If & when Dapol issues the model, I'll be keeping to my word. It appears you can't have too many Great Western tank locomotives, on a Great Western layout!

 

In truth, anything I'm buying at the moment is going into storage. The proposed layout shed is still planned, plinned & plonned. (Courtesy of the late Spike Milligan). Foundation blocks are in place, just need to send Mrs Smith off for a day or two....

Edited May 5, 2019 by tomparryharry
Schpelinge cork-up....

[The Johnster]

A plan of plin, pluff, ploof, and ploff, as the well known typing error would have had it.  

[7007GreatWestern]

 

On 04/05/2019 at 22:02, TheSoutherner said:

Thanks for sharing the video here. It's much appreciated.

 

Thank You 'Southerner' for sharing your excellent footage of the 'Saint' commissioning. Many of us would have liked to attend the event but couldn't. Thanks to you we are all able to savour the sights and sounds of the day.

[B15nac]

Anyone no when we may get some better photos of the BR versions? 

 

Kind regards Neil 

[Steamport Southport]

2 hours ago, B15nac said:

Anyone no when we may get some better photos of the BR versions? 

 

Kind regards Neil 

 

Probably the next Engine Shed on the Hornby website. I think there is one due this week or next.

 

 

Jason