86101, 86401 and 87002 heading to Europe? Nope!

[TravisM]

I’ve just read on WNXX.com that when the hire contact with GBRf ends, 86101, 86401 and 87002 could be heading to Europe, which has come as a surprise.  Is there any truth in this as it will be a shame if we lose more of these iconic loco’s.

Edited February 29, 2020 by jools1959

[Kelly]

better than meeting the cutter's torch though

Edited February 13, 2020 by Kelly

[298]

That was also a previous threat from several years ago before the ECS contract came about when 86213 was de-preserved, and the proposals would have seen 86101 retained (stuffed and mounted?), 87002 exported, and 86401 scrapped- this was before it's five-figure overhaul. 

 

What I'm basically reading from this is they won't be getting Dellner couplings, and how the various parties with AC electrics react to the work available is anybody's guess. 

 

(Freightliner still seem to be covering loadbank testing with a pair of 86s and an engineers wagon, and LSL are rumoured to be taking a pair of 90s). 

[TravisM]

The 15 GA Class 90’s are heading to Freightliner once off lease as they seem to have finally given up on the Class 86’s (according to WNXX).  I hope LSL take on the two 86’s and 87002.

[adb968008]

LSL would be an obvious candidate.

That said they could pick up freightliner 86’s, what condition is 87035 in ?

 

surprised WcRC haven’t considered them either given their bread and butter is Euston to Carnforth for CMEs, is reliant on a single class 86.

wirh the GWML now electric paths from Paddington are going to get harder for steam, and an 86 to The country could make sense.

 

that said theirs an MLV registered and could be highly useful on SR tours instead of a diesel but it’s never been used.

Edited February 24, 2019 by adb968008

[black and decker boy]

55 minutes ago, jools1959 said:

The 15 GA Class 90’s are heading to Freightliner once off lease as they seem to have finally given up on the Class 86’s (according to WNXX).  I hope LSL take on the two 86’s and 87002.

It’s been widely reported that LSL had a deal with the ROSCO for 1 or 2 ex-GA 90s and a HST

[John M Upton]

Who are LSL?

[Steadfast]

Locomotive service Ltd, Jeremy Hosking's lot at Crewe. Run charters with steam and old diesels

 

Jo

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, Steadfast said:

Locomotive service Ltd, Jeremy Hosking's lot at Crewe. Run charters with steam and old diesels

 

Jo

 

Started out with a couple of class 47s alongside the steam stable.  The class 47 fleet is growing but they have also bought or taken leases on 37667 D213 45118 47712 D9016 D9022.    

 

EDIT

As mentioned elsewhere LSL are taking on a HST or two, a pair of class 90s and possibly some Mk3s. 

 

Of especial note in my view is the fact that the two tone green 47s D1935 and D1944 had had the buffer beam valancing reapplied to make them look more like they were when built.

Edited February 24, 2019 by Covkid
Additional info

[TravisM]

Might find out more in June at the Crewe Diesel Depot open day.  I hope LSL take on the three loco’s either buying or leasing.

[royaloak]

7 hours ago, jools1959 said:

The 15 GA Class 90’s are heading to Freightliner once off lease as they seem to have finally given up on the Class 86’s (according to WNXX).  I hope LSL take on the two 86’s and 87002.

I understand FL are taking the Anglia 90s IN ADDITION to retaining most of their 86s.

[Davexoc]

If only the electric spine had gone ahead, more electric locos would be required. Not wiring through Oxford and also EWR was a very short-sighted decision IMO.

 

Dave

[Covkid]

3 hours ago, Davexoc said:

If only the electric spine had gone ahead, more electric locos would be required. Not wiring through Oxford and also EWR was a very short-sighted decision IMO.

 

Dave

 

Totally agree.  "Electric spine" made lots of sense until Basingstoke, but then it went a bit Pete Tong, but EWR is the most bonkers railway plan of all.  We know that diesel engines are falling out of favour and we know rail capacity is squeezed, yet the idiots in the DfT want to build a brand new single track unelectrified railway between two of our most learned cities of thinking - Oxford and Cambridge. You really couldn't make it up., but I am guessing it is because the new route doesn't conform to any existing agenda and the bean counters cannot cope with starting with a blank sheet of paper.

   

[adb968008]

Ive got to admit Oxford to Cambridge sounds more like a gentlemans jolly line than a viable idea.

is there really 10ks of people doing this commute daily or a handful of academics ?

if it were electrified, could it serve as a London by pass for freight, that might have more purpose if it provided junctions at each major mainline crossed, especially if overhead went to Southampton.

Edited February 25, 2019 by adb968008

[caradoc]

15 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Ive got to admit Oxford to Cambridge sounds more like a gentlemans jolly line than a viable idea.

is there really 10ks of people doing this commute daily or a handful of academics ?

if it were electrified, could it serve as a London by pass for freight, that might have more purpose if it provided junctions at each major mainline crossed, especially if overhead went to Southampton.

 

There is currently a half-hourly 'express' coach service between Oxford and the Other Place (Cambridge), and given the way traffic has built up on the new Oxford/Marylebone service, I believe such a rail link will be fully justified and invaluable. And of course it is not just Oxford/Cambridge, it will also serve Bletchley/Milton/Keynes, Aylesbury, Bedford, and somewhere on the ECML, providing new journey opportunities, both between places not currently linked by rail and also for trips which presently have to be undertaken via London, with the hassle of Underground (or, one day, eventually, Crossrail) connections.

 

I do agree however that the line should be double track throughout (although Oxford/Bedford already is, or will be) and preferably electrified too, but perhaps the additional cost of the latter would kybosh the whole project ?

 

[woodenhead]

14 minutes ago, caradoc said:

 

There is currently a half-hourly 'express' coach service between Oxford and the Other Place (Cambridge), and given the way traffic has built up on the new Oxford/Marylebone service, I believe such a rail link will be fully justified and invaluable. And of course it is not just Oxford/Cambridge, it will also serve Bletchley/Milton/Keynes, Aylesbury, Bedford, and somewhere on the ECML, providing new journey opportunities, both between places not currently linked by rail and also for trips which presently have to be undertaken via London, with the hassle of Underground (or, one day, eventually, Crossrail) connections.

 

 

Careful, mention London, Crossrail and some sort of outer ring and before you know if TFL will claim it and then the Mayor will extend his charging zone to the edge of it.

[159220]

On 23/02/2019 at 22:29, jools1959 said:

I’ve just read on WNXX.com that when the hire contact with GBRf ends, 86101, 86401 and 87002 could be heading to Europe, which has come as a surprise.  Is there any truth in this as it will be a shame if we lose more of these iconic loco’s.

Oh dear. Best not to report speculation as a fact. If anyone who subscribes to WNXX would have read, this comment above is far from that reported. 'fake news' I hear crying! 

Yes, on WNXX Forum there is some speculation as to what the news reported on WNXX might mean, but this is pure speculation and you have taken one and made it a three, then reported here. 

 

Question? Why a surprise? It is widely known in the industry that the ECS contract was purely for the movements of the current coaching stock, covering for the class 92 during their modification programme - actually when the ECS contract was first signed, it was even public news on the AC Locomotive Group's webpage.... It has never been the intention to fit the ACLG locomotives with CAF coach systems and Dellner couplers. Likely for Serco/GBRf, in the future there becomes a need for ECS beyond the CS pooled 92/73s, they would spot hire in a ROG locomotive fitted with a Dellner. 

 

16 hours ago, royaloak said:

I understand FL are taking the Anglia 90s IN ADDITION to retaining most of their 86s.

That is what I understand too, yet one word missing... 'some' 90s. 

[159220]

11 hours ago, Covkid said:

 

a brand new single track unelectrified railway between two of our most learned cities of thinking - Oxford and Cambridge.

   

 

What nonsense, do you work for the East West Railway Company? The line is going to be double track, electrification is a costed option for a future decision. Current DfT thinking is for regional lines, hydrogen shall be utilised. This fits into recent reports on spreading future traction of the railways across different technologies from bi-mode, through battery, to hydrogen and electric. Of course, *if* common sense prevails and a SRA 2.0 is established, the costed option for electrification might be taken up. But, who shall pay? Current thinking within the DfT and Treasury is that the EWR shall pay for itself, through new towns and tech paying. 

 

Yet, I shall give you the benefit of doubt. Your second post was correct about the EWR being more about connection hubs from MK/Bedford etc. Also remember, the EWR is going to support a huge house building campaign. Yes a few academics (I am one) shall travel on the line (we certainly do not take the X5!), yet you forget the huge growth of the technology industry in Cambridge and Oxford, with the EWR connecting two critical centres of the 'new economy'. You'll have more 'techs' than academics using the line. 

 

Anyway, HUGELY OFF TOPIC, I thought we were addressing the forum speculation reported as fact on the OP? 

[AMJ]

Why put up 25kvAC masts on lines that have 3rd rail electrification?  Surely some of the stored 92's could be used on those lines if the OHLE was run to the nearest point of 3rd rail.  

 

As for exporting locos to Europe why not recommission a batch of 92's, much newer than 86 or 87's?

[TravisM]

1 hour ago, AMJ said:

Why put up 25kvAC masts on lines that have 3rd rail electrification?  Surely some of the stored 92's could be used on those lines if the OHLE was run to the nearest point of 3rd rail.  

 

Network Rail have stated that there will be no further 3rd rail projects and there is serious consideration that then it’s up for renewal, 3rd rail will be replaced with OHLE.  25Kv AC is the new industry standard.

[TravisM]

2 hours ago, 159220 said:

Oh dear. Best not to report speculation as a fact. If anyone who subscribes to WNXX would have read, this comment above is far from that reported. 'fake news' I hear crying! 

Yes, on WNXX Forum there is some speculation as to what the news reported on WNXX might mean, but this is pure speculation and you have taken one and made it a three, then reported here. 

 

Thats a rather arrogant attitude in saying I reported it as fact when all I said it’s been reported on WNXX.  If you further read my opening statement, I asked the question if there was any truth in the report.

 

I suggest that you actually read what someone writes before you accuse them of writing fiction as I fact.   It would appear im not the only one you’ve done this too!

[Wickham Green]

11 minutes ago, Mersey507003 said:

Although this question could probably be used to start a completely new topic, I would just like to ask, if 3rd rail electrification is to be replaced by ohle when up for renewal, does that mean that all the emu's currently running off 3rd rail would be required to be converted to 25Kv and fitted with pantographs to collect power from the wires instead.

......... or scrapped.

[royaloak]

2 hours ago, jools1959 said:

I suggest that you actually read what someone writes before you accuse them of writing fiction as I fact.   It would appear i am not the only one you’ve done this too!

Careful, its comments like that which will kill the internet! 

Edited February 25, 2019 by royaloak

[Fat Controller]

20 minutes ago, Mersey507003 said:

Although this question could probably be used to start a completely new topic, I would just like to ask, if 3rd rail electrification is to be replaced by ohle when up for renewal, does that mean that all the emu's currently running off 3rd rail would be required to be converted to 25Kv and fitted with pantographs to collect power from the wires instead.

Most of the EMU stock delivered in the last twenty years have been designed to be convertible; the Leascos like to keep their options open.

[royaloak]

3 hours ago, AMJ said:

Why put up 25kvAC masts on lines that have 3rd rail electrification?  Surely some of the stored 92's could be used on those lines if the OHLE was run to the nearest point of 3rd rail.  

 

As for exporting locos to Europe why not recommission a batch of 92's, much newer than 86 or 87's?

Because 3rd rail is expensive to use, has massive electrical losses and isnt liked by those who dont understand railways.

 

92s are very complicated locos where-as 86s and 87s are comparatively very simple.