The Shrunken Royal Navy

[The Stationmaster]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Getting a lot of conflicting YouTube channels at moment . On the one hand suggesting that the RN is interested in two amphibious/ helicopter ships like HMS Ocean , another about Dry Replenishment Ships with some amphibious capability   and on the other hand one suggesting some Type 23s may be sold (surely not!) to Greece .   Any truth in any of these?

 

I doubt the Navy would particularly want another HMS Ocean although The Treasury might try to foist on on them.  The lift capacity yes, the flight deck yes but teh acoustic signature and certain aspects of the propulsive machinery - no way.

[Mike Storey]

Meanwhile, some good news, for a change. HMS Tamar now active, in reportedly record time (for peacetime). I wonder what the rush was? English Channel anyone??

 

https://www.royalnavy.mod.uk/news-and-latest-activity/news/2020/august/20/200820-navy-s-newest-ship-ready-for-action-in-record-time

 

[Barry O]

14 hours ago, The Stationmaster said:

 

I doubt the Navy would particularly want another HMS Ocean although The Treasury might try to foist on on them.  The lift capacity yes, the flight deck yes but teh acoustic signature and certain aspects of the propulsive machinery - no way.

And problems with hull strength..

[Legend]

It’s from a YouTube channel HUF HACK .  There’s a posting about 2 new Amphibious Assault ships .  I think I initially subscribed because I thought it was interesting but there seems to be an increasing amount of spurious information in it . 

[peanuts]

dunno if it goes here but interesting trailer for new film Greyhound

 

[Tankerman]

Thanks for posting the trailer, it's more than enough to save me wasting my money on a cinema ticket. 

[62613]

3 hours ago, peanuts said:

dunno if it goes here but interesting trailer for new film Greyhound

 

Looks like a complete piece of sheet!

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, 62613 said:

Looks like a complete piece of sheet!

I believe the term used to be 'artisitic licence'.   It now seems to mean if you've got CGI just keep on using it until you've gone so far over the top whatever reality you might have had has completely vanished.

[Legend]

17 hours ago, 62613 said:

Looks like a complete piece of sheet!

Another one where the Americans won the war? 

[Reorte]

56 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

I believe the term used to be 'artisitic licence'.   It now seems to mean if you've got CGI just keep on using it until you've gone so far over the top whatever reality you might have had has completely vanished.

 

When CGI first started becoming common I hoped that over-the-top specatcle would quickly lose its lustre (after all it soon ceases to impress when it becomes routine and loses the wow factor). Sadly not, often, although I'm sure there's the odd film somewhere that just reserves it for something plausible within the film that couldn't be done convincingly without it.

[Tankerman]

18 minutes ago, Legend said:

Another one where the Americans won the war? 

 

Unfortunately it will be yet another of those "How the US won all the battles." However the US did win the war in that the sheer scale of their war production of both basic materials, particularly copper, aluminium, brass etc., and complete items, particularly merchant ships and transport vehicles, which allowed other nations such as the UK and Russia to concentrate on the production of tanks, guns and aircraft.

 

If any one American, of German ancestry strangely enough, could be said to have done more to have won WWII than any other and is now totally forgotten, it was Henry J. Kaiser. His shipbuilding companies built the Liberty ships, based on the design of the 60 Ocean type cargo ships he built for the British between October 1941 and November 1942; approximately 2,700 of which were completed between 1942 and 1944. 

[62613]

2 hours ago, Legend said:

Another one where the Americans won the war? 

 

I have to say that when I saw the trailer, I was reminded of a book by C.S. Forester, called "The Good Shepherd" which deals with a North Atlantic convoy, with an escort group under the command of a dugout U.S. Navy officer; but it was nothing like that!

 

[62613]

1 hour ago, Tankerman said:

 

Unfortunately it will be yet another of those "How the US won all the battles." However the US did win the war in that the sheer scale of their war production of both basic materials, particularly copper, aluminium, brass etc., and complete items, particularly merchant ships and transport vehicles, which allowed other nations such as the UK and Russia to concentrate on the production of tanks, guns and aircraft.

 

If any one American, of German ancestry strangely enough, could be said to have done more to have won WWII than any other and is now totally forgotten, it was Henry J. Kaiser. His shipbuilding companies built the Liberty ships, based on the design of the 60 Ocean type cargo ships he built for the British between October 1941 and November 1942; approximately 2,700 of which were completed between 1942 and 1944. 

 

Don't forget the T-2 tankers; or the the "Victory" ships; or the British (Canadian)-built "Fort" and "Park" types, either. Manna from heaven for many a Greek who wanted to get into shipowning after WW2

 

[Johann Marsbar]

7 minutes ago, 62613 said:

 

I have to say that when I saw the trailer, I was reminded of a book by C.S. Forester, called "The Good Shepherd" which deals with a North Atlantic convoy, with an escort group under the command of a dugout U.S. Navy officer; but it was nothing like that!

 

That is what it is supposed to be "based" upon!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_(film)

[Tankerman]

1 hour ago, Johann Marsbar said:

That is what it is supposed to be "based" upon!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greyhound_(film)

 

That makes it even worse than I thought. Fully appreciating that actual names of escort ships couldn't be used it's obvious that virtually no research was carried out. I've done some research of my own and combined that with what I already know.

 

The first of the Fletcher class destroyers weren't completed/commissioned until the middle of 1942.

 

Polish ships fighting for the allies retained their Polish names, nearly all those lent or given to the Polish navy were renamed with names in Polish.  Victor in Polish is not Viktor, it's Zwycięzca. 

 

There is no tribe named James and in any case the chances of a Tribal fleet destroyer being used for merchant ship convoy duty in early 1942 would be very remote. 

 

The Canadian corvette is just about possible as by the beginning of 1942 the RCN were taking part in escorting Atlantic convoys. The Canadians have never been given the praise they deserve for creating a large navy in a very short time by building the escort ships and manning them.

 

The real situation in early 1942 was that the British lent the USN ten Flower class  corvettes for escort duties on the US East coast.

 

Perhaps we British should make a film about how the US Admiral Lord caused the lost of hundreds of British merchant ships and their crews off the East coast of the US between January and July 1942 because of his utter refusal to adopt the convoy system. Ships for which the US never compensated us for.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Tankerman
changed grammar

[Bon Accord]

3 hours ago, Tankerman said:

If any one American, of German ancestry strangely enough, could be said to have done more to have won WWII than any other and is now totally forgotten, it was Henry J. Kaiser. His shipbuilding companies built the Liberty ships, based on the design of the 60 Ocean type cargo ships he built for the British between October 1941 and November 1942; approximately 2,700 of which were completed between 1942 and 1944. 

 

All of which were of course based on a design by J.L. Thompson of Sunderland.

[Tankerman]

24 minutes ago, Bon Accord said:

 

All of which were of course based on a design by J.L. Thompson of Sunderland.

 

You must be a fellow shipping enthusiast  

[simontaylor484]

My Grandad served on an Aircraft carrier Hms Ranee which was American built as a freighter and after the War following a trip round the far east was returned to Norfolk Virginia the ship was reconverted to a freighter and was finally scrapped in the mid seventies.

He then took the train to Halifax Novascotia. And came home on the Aquitania .He always said the build quality was not a patch on his first ship Hms Impulsive built on the Isle of Wight.

[J. S. Bach]

6 hours ago, Tankerman said:

 ...snip... The Canadians have never been given the praise they deserve for creating a large navy in a very short time by building the escort ships and manning them. ...snip...

Check out a book titled The Far Distant Ships, it give a good account of the WW2 Canadian Navy.

 

Also, I believe that it was Admiral King, not the non-existent Admiral Lord. A list of all the USN WW2 admirals does not show an Adm. Lord. 

[Tankerman]

17 minutes ago, J. S. Bach said:

Check out a book titled The Far Distant Ships, it give a good account of the WW2 Canadian Navy.

 

Also, I believe that it was Admiral King, not the non-existent Admiral Lord. A list of all the USN WW2 admirals does not show an Adm. Lord. 

It was indeed Admiral King, age is beginning to slow the memory down a bit.

[62613]

10 hours ago, Tankerman said:

It was indeed Admiral King, age is beginning to slow the memory down a bit.

 

King did all he could to keep a British battle fleet out of The Pacific (as opposed to the Indian Ocean) in the later stages of the war. His stance on convoying, and other anti submarine measures, e.g., dimming the coastal streetlamps, was reminiscent of the attitude of the British Admiralty in the first three years of WW1

 

[Tankerman]

13 hours ago, 62613 said:

 

King did all he could to keep a British battle fleet out of The Pacific (as opposed to the Indian Ocean) in the later stages of the war. His stance on convoying, and other anti submarine measures, e.g., dimming the coastal streetlamps, was reminiscent of the attitude of the British Admiralty in the first three years of WW1

 

 

King was virulently anti British, I read an article about him some 20 odd years ago which made a good case that the main reason he would not adopt the convoy system was that he saw it as a British idea.

[Kris]

One of the little training / support vessels used by the navy has had a bit of a bump. Someone in the tanker is going to have some questions to answer.

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/18689092.incident-reported-falmouth-docks/?ref=rss

 

[Ohmisterporter]

I read a quote by General Eisenhower along the lines of "The best way to ensure we win the war is for somebody to shoot Admiral King". I may have it slightly wrong; I think it was quoted in The Battle of the Atlantic by Jonathan Dimbleby but my books are in store at the moment and I cannot access them.

[Ohmisterporter]

There has been lots of comment about the OPVs and how they should be up-gunned to become mini frigates or corvettes. This article from the thin pinstriped line.blog gives a thoughtful summary as to why this is not really necessary nor feasible. Hope you find this of interest.

 

https://thinpinstripedline.blogspot.com/2020/09/solving-problem-that-doesnt-exist-up.html