Network Rail to ban Flying Scotsman?

[royaloak]

On 12/05/2019 at 09:23, jonny777 said:

Even if they banned Scotsman, the trespassers would simply follow Tornado around, and then that would have to be banned as well. 

 

I shudder to think how the P2 will fare, if it is ever allowed on the network. 

This issue seems far worse when the Flying Moneypit is involved hence it only relating to this loco, at the moment!

[royaloak]

On 12/05/2019 at 15:33, w124bob said:

 As for a steam ban (or railtour ban) there's a vocal minority within NR and the bigger TOC's who can't wait to bring it on. 

Really?

A minority you say?

 

This one loco is costing Network Rail a significant amount of money in delay payments to the TOCs and NR are getting a bit p-ssed off about it, like it or not the books have to balance and if it costs more in delay payments than NR are charging the Tour Operators (at the moment it is costing significantly more) then either the charges will increase massively to cover the delay payments (making the tours unviable), the Tour Operators will have to start paying for their own Delays (one major trespass incident will wipe out their cash-flow), or Network Rail will basically tell them to sod off. 

 

The National Rail network is not a playground for grown men and their steam engines.

[royaloak]

On 12/05/2019 at 21:41, APOLLO said:

Taken by my dad (then a local press photographer) many years ago. Wigan North Western (don't know the date)

 

 

Note the local boss in the trilby, and local plod on the job - also note the southbound trains in the adjacent platforms.

 

Flying Scotsman always has attracted such attention. nothing new.

 

Brit15

Unfortunately health and safety law plus no win no fee solicitors have changed a lot of things, that was then and this is now!

[w124bob]

11 minutes ago, royaloak said:

A minority you say?

I used the word minority simply on the basis of those I've met personally in my passed career as an ex driver, your further comment is no surprise .

Edited May 14, 2019 by w124bob

[Reorte]

11 minutes ago, royaloak said:

Really?

A minority you say?

 

This one loco is costing Network Rail a significant amount of money in delay payments to the TOCs and NR are getting a bit p-ssed off about it, like it or not the books have to balance and if it costs more in delay payments than NR are charging the Tour Operators (at the moment it is costing significantly more) then either the charges will increase massively to cover the delay payments (making the tours unviable), the Tour Operators will have to start paying for their own Delays (one major trespass incident will wipe out their cash-flow), or Network Rail will basically tell them to sod off. 

 

The National Rail network is not a playground for grown men and their steam engines.

I can see where more than a minority are coming from when wanting to see this particular loco out of the way, it's looking like it might have to come to that, but more than a minority for (steam) railtours in general? Unfortunately FS is attracting all the wrong sorts of headlines, but in the right time and place the effect can be the opposite - look at all the positive PR the Tornado runs when the Settle-Carlisle line reopened created.

[royaloak]

To me its only this one loco which causes the problems, the other locos seem to run (mostly) without incident.

[wombatofludham]

Whilst generally agreeing Flying Jockstrap is a particular problem, there's a wonderful film on YouTube of Wolverhampton station in 1992, featuring the departure of two class 50s at the end.  Drag the cursor across to about 11 mins 40secs and see it through to the end.  The platform member of staff has obviously been sent to get the gricers back onto the platform, but at the very end, look where the bloke with the young kid emerges from.

I doubt that was a normal and most likely a crank as a normal can't see the attraction of Hoovers.
 

 

Edited May 14, 2019 by wombatofludham

[jim.snowdon]

8 hours ago, royaloak said:

To me its only this one loco which causes the problems, the other locos seem to run (mostly) without incident.

I'd agree. Part of the problem is that if you ask the average man in the street to name a steam locomotive, Flying Scotsman is going to be the most likely answer. The media have a lot to answer for giving that one particular locomotive a fame far above its status. Joe Public is going to turn out to see it so long as it continues to run.

 

Jim

[Reorte]

1 hour ago, jim.snowdon said:

I'd agree. Part of the problem is that if you ask the average man in the street to name a steam locomotive, Flying Scotsman is going to be the most likely answer. The media have a lot to answer for giving that one particular locomotive a fame far above its status. Joe Public is going to turn out to see it so long as it continues to run.

 

It never seemed to get this sort of attention when it was last running before its restoration though (or I've just forgotten). You're probably right about the media, they hyped it up as if seeing it was some sort of amazing, once-in-a-lifetime, nothing else quite like it event for some reason.

[Colin_McLeod]

On 12/05/2019 at 08:50, cctransuk said:

I read this as a deliberate attempt to provoke a furore; I hope that the wider readership don't bite - but I won't hold my breath !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

John 

Sadly a lot of the thread content seems to confirm your fears.

Colin

[The Stationmaster]

10 hours ago, royaloak said:

To me its only this one loco which causes the problems, the other locos seem to run (mostly) without incident.

Tornado has certainly had a similar effect at times but even then- from what I have seen - nowhere near on the scale of what goes on when 'Flying Scotsman' is around.   There has also been a noticeable change over the years - which again might be related to 'Scotsman' as we had nothing like problems on this sort of scale with GW150 which saw the reappearance of steam in all sorts of places but with no serious trespass issues although the most likely spots were watched if BT Police. or local BR staff could be made available.   Yes there were one or two rank idiots out there but in relation to the total number they were a miniscule minority.

 

And as ever the biggest crowds, with one exception. were at stations.  The exception was a steeply sloping field near Chalford which an enterprising farmer turned into a useful photographic viewpoint by opening the gate and charging a few bob for the privilege of getting a grandstand view.

[Steamport Southport]

3 hours ago, Reorte said:

 

It never seemed to get this sort of attention when it was last running before its restoration though (or I've just forgotten). You're probably right about the media, they hyped it up as if seeing it was some sort of amazing, once-in-a-lifetime, nothing else quite like it event for some reason.

 

I remember it when it was running the Southport to Wigan/Manchester shuttle trains in the 1980s and there was quite a few incidents of trespass, yet there wasn't when they had Black Fives and Jubilees doing the same trains in other years.

 

 

Jason

[Siberian Snooper]

On a preserved railway that I used to frequent, one of the drivers ( now on the great footplate in the sky) would get his fireman to put the slacker on when he spotted idiots close to the track and have it aimed out of the cab window,  the idiots would see it and scramble to get out of the way before getting wet. It worked well most times.

 

 

[rab]

I blame Dr Death. He started it all.

BTW is he still around???

[jonny777]

51 minutes ago, rab said:

I blame Dr Death. He started it all.

BTW is he still around???

 

If you mean Richard Beeching - he died almost 35 years ago.  

[MarkC]

1 hour ago, rab said:

I blame Dr Death. He started it all.

BTW is he still around???

He has his own FB fan page...

[Classsix T]

Worth mentioning I think that as proved up-thread, questionable egress from a designated place of safety to one that most definitely isn't, with regards railways, is nothing new (MP, Rocket, blah blah) in an absolute paradox to the proof of ghosts and aliens however, almost everyone has the opportunity to photo some berk doing something they shouldn't especially as there are obviously gonna be more people about with image capture tech' wherever FS raises a head 'o' steam. No surprise then that "that loco" is possibly disproportionately given a trespass magnet label. 

The "meeja" social and otherwise are guilty of bandwagoning FS to death of course but equally culpable is a moronic public that thinks what a famous does on a weekly TV popularity contest is of any consequence, to their lives, or anyone else. Bread and Circuses.

 

The solution therefore is for NR to send out an rhtt, section in advance, with creosote in the tanks.

Aythangyou!

 

C6T. 

[Michael Delamar]

Can we rename and renumber her as one of her long scrapped classmates? Joe public and press won’t know about it if  it’s called Sandwich.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Michael Delamar

[Classsix T]

Gay Crusader, and paint it pink.

 

C6T. 

[rab]

On 15/05/2019 at 16:17, jonny777 said:

 

If you mean Richard Beeching - he died almost 35 years ago.  

No its a guy known within spotting circles for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and not seeing any wrong in doing so.

I've never seen him in person but seen a number of pictures of him, always dressed in a mac and flat cap.

[Boris]

12 hours ago, rab said:

No its a guy known within spotting circles for being in the wrong place at the wrong time and not seeing any wrong in doing so.

I've never seen him in person but seen a number of pictures of him, always dressed in a mac and flat cap.

He was still around a few weeks ago

[royaloak]

On 15/05/2019 at 15:25, rab said:

I blame Dr Death. He started it all.

BTW is he still around???

Yes and I have never sen him the 'wrong' side of a fence or painted line so maybe he has mellowed in his old age.

Edited May 17, 2019 by royaloak

[petethemole]

But he has his stepladder to see over the fence. There's a YouTube video of him on a shed roof somewhere; outside the fence, but I don't suppose it was his shed, so still trespass (unless he got permission of course).

[kevinlms]

Sad that some will be gleeful, if FS gets banned.

 

It's not the loco causing the problem, but the idiots. Perhaps the owners (NRM still?), should set a section on their web site, to post videos/photos etc of culprits? Then pass the info onto BTP.

[Hroth]

54 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

It's not the loco causing the problem, but the idiots.

 

Its a combination of:

 

• The presence of the locomotive
• The presence of the idiots
• The media hype
• Modern communications (email, social media)

 

The loco (or perhaps the idea of the loco) is causing the problem, if it wasn't there, the idiots wouldn't be there. You can't stop the media from reporting when runs will be made (or the promoters selling tickets!) and the NRM has overstoked the fire on this "Iconic" loco for years. So there's not much that can be done about the last two factors, but the first two could be addressed by (in no particular order of preference)

 

• Threatening to withdraw permission to run the locomotive in question on the national network
• Threatening to withdraw permission for all steam tours
• Putting offenders before the courts
• A heavy publicity campaign clearly stating that the wrong side of the railway boundary is the wrong place to be

Whether anything other than withdrawing permission for some or all steam tours would be effective, I don't know.  Perhaps such threats might moderate the behaviour of the idiots. But those offenders have to be dealt with and the "public" need to be educated. If that doesn't work, things don't look good, and if any of the idiots get injured or killed, then a blanket ban would be the standard kneejerk response.

 

Just consider what happened to the Jeremy Kyle Show.