steve fay Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I wonder if Hornby HS2 train sets will be the christmas must have in 2026 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 "Now every fool in Buxton can be in Bakewell in half-an-hour and every fool in Bakewell at Buxton" Perhaps this will need updating for the New Millenium? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Kris Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 Lets call it TS2! This country desperately needs infrastructure investment if the rest of us who don't live in the South East are to have any chance of equal growth and those who do live in the SE are to stand a chance of staying out of a green belt swallowing megalopolis! I'm sure that the politicians will be on it dreckly. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovex Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Alright I know nothing about costings but I had presumed that a line to Sheffield and then branching to Manchester and Leeds would have been more cost effective (using the old Woodhead line for a start) then building two lines up each side of the Pennines. I'm also not convinced by the "bridge link" between the two Leeds stations. I would have thought it made more sense to continue the line along the Woodlesford line and bring it along the Northern side of the station. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coombe Barton Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I wonder if Hornby HS2 train sets will be the christmas must have in 2026 They then might run at scale speed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 This is an interesting (108 page) government document. Describes the routes / reasons etc etc in plain english. Well written I think https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69738/hs2-phase-two-command-paper.pdf The more I think about this, the more I think it should go ahead - right now. Yes in a very early thread here I questioned the concept, stating that I hope it would not become just a "rich boys toy", but the linking into conventional services (described very well in the above document) and continued services on conventional lines makes much more sense. I can forsee much opposition, the route through Cheshire is very much like the Chilterns (very high value rural housing), no doubt modifications (more tunneling) will be the outcome. There will no doubt be objections from Liverpool and Warrington, both important centres who's HS2 trains will join the route at Crewe (again described in the above doc in full). Stafford also seems to miss out. Interesting to note there are two infrastructure depots and two stock depots on each leg. Crewe & Bamfurlong (AKA Golborne) on the Manchester leg, and Staveley & Crofton on the Leeds leg. Looking at the Bamfurlong plan you will need a rather long and wide plank to model it !!!!!! Brit15 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 This is an interesting (108 page) government document. Describes the routes / reasons etc etc in plain english. Well written I think https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69738/hs2-phase-two-command-paper.pdf Stafford also seems to miss out. Brit15 Stafford (& Stoke on trent, etc) can be served by using the connection onto the WCML at Litchfield (the end of phase 1) which will remain even after extension of HS2 further north. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Lets call it TS2! This country desperately needs infrastructure investment if the rest of us who don't live in the South East are to have any chance of equal growth and those who do live in the SE are to stand a chance of staying out of a green belt swallowing megalopolis! Ah... well, the down side in all this for us Bere Peninsula types is the fact that TS2 will bring an improved timetable, apparently. Which means it will be more accessible to the rest of West Devon to move into... But if it takes commuters off the cracked and potholed route between Tavistock and Plymouth, it's a good thing.Of course, the addition of 750 house to west Tavistock won't be very pleasant to commuters on the Gunnislake to Tavistock road... So, some win, some lose. Edited January 28, 2013 by Jan 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marcyg Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Was listening to Radio 2 today and they were discussing HS2 ". Basically it boils down to 'We need a fast modern way of moving round the country to bring us up to speed with the rest of Europe-but as long as it comes no-where near me'. Sorry peeps, we live in a small country, sooner or later someone will get upset. Edited January 28, 2013 by Marcyg 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium phil-b259 Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) At least people in the midlands are getting stations,unlike on the southern section which is directed at only passengers living in London.I still wonder if this thing will be built given the economy and money situation ,but like all persons in Westminster they want a monument to show how good they were.Around my area there is talk of a maintenence depot that will cause a village to be divided and many houses blighted ,this has only just come to light andd noone localy was consulted by HS2 .Obviously there is a great deal of discussion to be had on the extension ,and a station at East Mids Airport might happen. Firstly as regards intermediate stations south of Birmingham - there is simply no need. The journey times from any such station to London would not be that much shorter - the further out you go the grater the time savings - and stations also eat into line capacity (note its not just the platform space available its also the time taken for trains to decelerate and accelerate back to line speed is important too). Finally you get maximum utilization of a piece of infrastructure by ensuring everything is as uniform as possible (as demonstrated by the French TGV setup). This is what makes high speed rail work so well - the trains are all matched in terms of their performance characteristics traveling at the same speed (imposable if you have a mix of stopping and fast services sharing the tracks). Introduce variations and capacity rapidly falls away. Its also worth noting that the same applies to the road network (i.e. if all vehicles travel at the same speed and are of the same type) or even power stations where the fuel supply is controlled to produce the most consistent and therefore efficient temperatures, etc. Besides as has been noted in the report removal of the fastest non stop services from the WCML will provide more paths for semi fast services. As for Chiltern, if demand for end to end London - Birmingham services falls, then intermediate stations may well get a better service as trains make more stops to focus on custom from intermediate stations to London / Birmingham. Secondly as regards East Midlands Airport, while a station there does at first glance look like a good idea, dig a bit deeper into the report and you can see why a station at Totton is thought to be better. Firstly tunneled stations (as one at the airport would have to be) are incredibly expensive to construct and as all HS2 stations are designed to have extensive aceleration and decleration tracks either side of the platforms the net length of tunneling becomes grater. There are also design considerations because tunnels suitable for high speed running (i.e.up to 250mph) are in themselves very complicated beasts because of the aerodynamics involved (its one of the reasons high speed lines prefer steep gradients if at all possible). Secondly while the airport has good connections to the road network, public transport connectivity is rubbish and given HS2 is supposed to complement the existing rail network this lack of connectivity is a serious disadvantage. While in theory you could compensate by having trains branch off from HS2 to run into the centers of Derby & Nottingham it has to be remembered that the leg to London has a maximum capacity of 18tph which has to be shared not only between both legs of the Y network, but also takes in trains from the likes of Preston Newcastle, Edinburgh and Glasgow that currently use the WCML / ECML. (Note this will not leave the northern legs of the Y unused because the capacity can be taken up by trains from Birmingham or perhaps Worcester / Bristol subject to further electrification). Thus every train you divert away from HS2 in the East Midlands area is one less for the likes of Sheffield, Leeds or Newcastle. A station at Totton by contrast not only keeps the good road connections but adds the potential for frequent rail feeder services to both Derby & Nottingham while maximizing capacity on HS2. East Midlands Airport can be easily accessed by a dedicated shuttle bus or even a tram extension that runs via Totton (something that further improves connectivity to the Nottingham area in general). Edited January 28, 2013 by phil-b259 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmthtrains - David Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The media coverage is fascinating, interviewing lots of Ill informed grumpy old ladies expressing their disgust and shock, despite they'll all be dead before its anywhere near them. NIMBYS everywhere, and lots of loudy spoken "33 BILLION pounds" and "cutting SWATHES of English countryside". No mention that the capital investment is simply 2 billion a year, or that crossrail, only crossing London, is costing 15 billion. Or that actually a railway corridor is only about 20m wide, or that the same arguments were out against HS1, and everyone was perfectly happy with that in the end, or that the railway is being built to manage future capacity. Speed simply allow you to move more people per hour, rather than just having speed for speeds sake. Obviously, if the railway is going to cut through your cul de sac, you will be vehemently against it, but this makes a better news report that a balanced discussion of the benefits to the nation... David 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 On taking a step back,..and looking towards the future .....What awaits us ? More roads ?.. Some, as always, support these, but, they always incur a toll ..Whether in life, or price ?,..To add, we've already got Motorways... .Do these really suit 'our needs /,way of travel, ?...Maybe ?.., more convenient ?.....until meeting the tailback / jam./ uphill, labouring trucks.... Railways were, always, our future, and it's about time We caught up 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Explanation of the service patterns here. Seems a bit complicated, and only a proposal as yet. (long, long way off). https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/69743/updated-economic-case-for-hs2-_august-2012_-explanation-of-the-service-patterns.pdf Seems stopping Glasgow - London trains will call at Wigan Warrington & Crewe & onto HS2 at Crewe. Glasgow / Edinburgh - Birmingham trains will stop at Wigan but not Warrington or Crewe, going via the new link at Bamfurlong. Brit15 Edited January 28, 2013 by APOLLO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The media coverage is fascinating, interviewing lots of Ill informed grumpy old ladies expressing their disgust and shock, despite they'll all be dead before its anywhere near them. NIMBYS everywhere, and lots of loudy spoken "33 BILLION pounds" and "cutting SWATHES of English countryside". Try going to a HS2 Roadshow and seeing the "quality" of the questions from the general public- gormless folk unable to understand a map and asking whether they'll be a station for their town on HS2, when the previous one closed in 1965 and still isn't close to reopening. Later on I was questioned by the Anti-HS2 Nimby/Banana brigade, when told it'd cost my household £1000, I had great delight in replying "Not a problem, I'll go and get my cheque book and write one now". The local Midlands news seem to take great delight in reporting the plight of larger land-holding businesses on the route, such as Stables, Farms, and Garden Centres. It's nothing but reporting of the problems, instead of solutions such as moving to different sites (if the customers don't follow then you're doing something wrong). It's even possible to move complete buildings to different parcels of land, should the will and effort be there. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 The line is shown entering a twin bore tunnel immediately after the Airport Interchange Station. It's in tunnel all the way to the approach to Picadilly. The tunnel portal is something like a mile or less from the terminus. . I did my own double take on the route through Manchester as it bears through the towns I lived in as a child before realising it was all tunnel. Nice to see some of the old route from the CLC Manchester - Liverpool line to Wigan is being reused as well. Hope I am around and fit enough to at least do this route once when it opens. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sn Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I hate to break it to you, you already have. That's what general elections are for. We as a country voted in a government that was committed to the scheme. And I'll leave the politics there. I think you'll find there was no coalition box to tick. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Talking on Look North Leeds the PM was asked why not start building from Leeds, this was dismissed as it was best to built the difficult (Chilterns) section first. Personally anything which reduces the time from Leeds to the Sheffield area from its present crawl should be built tomorrow.Meanwhile on East Midlands Today the focus homed in on the demolition of some Railway Cottages at Long Eaton, as many have noted the route making some use of the old GC its could be considered appropriaterevenge in destroying something Midland! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) A station at Totton by contrast not only keeps the good road connections but adds the potential for frequent rail feeder services to both Derby & Nottingham while maximizing capacity on HS2. East Midlands Airport can be easily accessed by a dedicated shuttle bus or even a tram extension that runs via Totton (something that further improves connectivity to the Nottingham area in general). I think you mean Toton; Totton is near Southampton. Though having said that, on Radio 4 this morning it was pronounced as Totton, so perhaps you're right! Can't help but wonder "what if" by using the London - Rugby - Leicester - Nottingham - Sheffield - Manchester route of the old Great Central. Edited January 28, 2013 by Western Sunset Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butler Henderson Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Its always been pronounced Toeton as far as I am aware, the missing e in its name is common to other places around Nottingham like Bas(e)ford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 As an enthusiast of railways, why do these plans leave me feeling rather cold? If I live in Derby (which I did once upon a time), would I really want to treck all the way to Toton before I catch a (very) High Speed Train? Will the time saving be really all that great? And if I live in London (which I did once upon a time too) would I want to be deposited in the middle of nowhere (Toton) to find my way to a meeting in Derby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Clive Mortimore Posted January 28, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2013 (edited) Looking at the time line of the predicted finish date. I could well be dead and not get ride on it. Does anyone know if you can pre book your coffin (with contents) on a train to ensure I get at least on trip on it? Edited January 28, 2013 by Clive Mortimore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 I think Toton is a political station, perhaps also Meadowhall - the real goal was Leeds but if the train didn't stop anywhere before then there would be no way to sell the cost. Look at the Manchester route - the airport and Manchester itself - that's it, but the Leeds line being longer and passing near big cities it would be political suicide to completely by pass them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted January 28, 2013 Share Posted January 28, 2013 Looking at the time line of the predicted finish date. I could well be dead and not get ride on it. Does anyone know if you can pre book your coffin (with contents) on a train to ensure I get at least on trip on it? Not sure you can count track bashing if you're a stiff Clive. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 I'm a bit surprised that it's continuous tunnel all the way from Manchester Airport (pretty much) to just outside Piccadilly. Tunneling under Wythenshawe and Didsbury fair enough (though from what I remember of Wythenshawe it needed knocking down anyway...), but was expecting the Mersey crossing to have been on a bridge as Wythenshawe is quite a bit higher than the Mersey. Though that said, the area from Didsbury to the centre of Manchester is comparatively low-lying - the Styal line runs on embankments/viaducts all the way from where it crosses the Mersey - so maybe there wasn't enough room to get a decent gradient in between the Mersey and Didsbury without running the risk of flooding... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted January 29, 2013 Share Posted January 29, 2013 Ther has been talk on here of trains coming off HS2 and on to the old network. Does that mean that the new trains will be built to the "old"(I don't know the correct terminology) gauge? My non-railway friend seemed to think that the new trains will be double deckers. Can double-deckers run through the Chunnel and up HS1? Please excuse my ignorance Ed 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts