GMRC Series 2 - Episode 3 - 'Best of British'

[Pacific231G]

3 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Cue people whinging that all the "people stuff" eats into the modelling content. You could easily lose half the show to the backstories if every team member gets only 90 seconds.

 

 

There we go. I'm inclined to agree with @RJS1977 we are enjoying the modelling. You can get glimpses of the competitors from the interviews and little snippets, but it's the modelling and competition that counts.

 

Ninety seconds is quite a lot of screen time and you could say enough about each team and show  enough of their normal modelling activities to give us a flavour in less than a minute. 

It's not people stuff but modelling stuff  I want to see and certainly not inane chatter.  but three short well-constructed sequences would be a chance to give a broader view of the hobby and put what they're all doing in three days into context. The four minute intros in One Man and His Dog were a bit long especially as they were mainly just sequences of shots narrated by Phil Drabble (though that show was designed to be slow and relaxed) Knowing that competitor A was the latest of four generations of sheep farmers, had two flocks of sheep on a Welsh hillside, did their own shearing and had four working dogs gave a context to seeing him or her working with their dog to carry out the competition task.

 

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

Some utterly superb modelling going on in Episode 3. But do the presenters have to be so dismissive of anything that lacks an all singing, all dancing, all exploding  "animation"? I wonder how Steve Flint and/or Kathy Millat (both superb modellers in their own right) would react if their work was rated as "OK but lacks excitement..." as they so cavalierly describe some very good modelling efforts (assuming that what we see on screen is not edited down from a more nuanced assessment). Now I understand the need to make the show appealing to a wide audience, but the BBC2 show "The Repair Shop" manages to attract audiences without dumbing down and resorting to reality TV parlour tricks.

 

And, as I am in "Mr Grumble" mood, can forthcoming episodes (or failing that, the next series) minimise or do away with the interminable filler shots?  Too many are repetitious (how many times do we need to see a diesel shunter???). And as the programme is (ostensibly) about Railway Modelling, why not have a short (1 minute?) segment about a modelling technique - such as static grass laying (infinitely more interesting than yet another shot of a Peacock).

I sort of agree with your first point. In that judgement Miniatur Wunderland would be a finer expression of the modeller's craft than Pendon but then it attracts a much larger audience which is what a TV channel needs in what it's showing the public.

 

The cutaways of Fawley Hill are mostly just there for punctuation to enable time to pass and to separate sequences. They or something like them are needed to edit a programme. that's following something over an extended period. I doubt whether they total more than a minute or two in total for each episode but I agree that they maybe didn't shoot quite enough of them as I think I've seen the same shots more than once. 

I

 

Edited October 1, 2019 by Pacific231G

[Phil Parker]

2 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

And as the programme is (ostensibly) about Railway Modelling, why not have a short (1 minute?) segment about a modelling technique - such as static grass laying (infinitely more interesting than yet another shot of a Peacock).

 

Speaking as someone who has covered static grass twice on BRM DVD's, 1 minute isn't enough to do any topic justice. Try explaining how a grasser works, or the difference between puffer bottles and electronic tools while timing yourself. 1 minute means shouting, "Spread glue, wave magic grass tool!" and very little else. Your target audience will have zero knowledge to start with.

 

Then think of 7 other topics that can also be covered in 1-minute slots without RMwebbers grumbling that they didn't get enough modelling. I've done 10-minute slots and has someone tell me I missed an ESSENTIAL detail out. (Caps because it's that ESSENTIAL!!!!!!!!).

 

Far better to watch the teams and use them as a vehicle for modelling techniques if you must - but this isn't that show and realistically, it's not produced for that audience. 

[Pacific231G]

On 29/09/2019 at 17:49, Jenny Emily said:

I'm very impressed at the number of women modellers in the series. We had two on our team, and the first episode had a few too. Perhaps a better showing than series one got. I would have been team captain of the Rail Riders, but the TV company bumped me from the role and made Les captain; a role he did not want to do. Perhaps I had annoyed some-one in dropping out of series one, though it suited me as when five expectant faces turn to me and ask "what now, Boss?" my response is usually "I was going to ask you guys the same question"

Hi Jenny

They've done pretty well on the women modellers score and a very good thing for the hobby too.

I've just been watching your interview and tour of the War of the Worlds layout on Hattons' YouTube Channel and I'm even more impressed watching this than I was from viewing the actual programme

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClCWYa9JTq0.

The Hattons video is well worth watching and it's obvious that it was your team but I'd not been aware of the "team captain" role being very evident in the programmes anyway. That was different from the Greatest Little Railway series. Interesting that the actual build time is even shorter than it appears. Assuming each ten hour day included an hour of film crew interruptions (?) you'd all have had only about eighteen hours to actually build the layouts  with a few more hours on the morning of day three for titivating, testing and glitch fixing. 

[LNER4479]

19 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

Interesting that the actual build time is even shorter than it appears. Assuming each ten hour day included an hour of film crew interruptions (?) you'd all have had only about eighteen hours to actually build the layouts  with a few more hours on the morning of day three for titivating, testing and glitch fixing. 

And the rest! You can multiply that three-fold because it is not only your filming that is disruptive but also when the team next door to you is also being filmed ('cos you equally can't be doing any hammering, banging, drilling, etc during those times either). One of our team lost a whole hour simply because he left his desk in the adjacent work room only to return to find the camera crew had plonked themselves there to filum the guy working next door!

 

We found that the 'golden time' was the first hour (from 8am) when they let you in but were still busy getting themselves set up and also the last two hours as they effectively packed up for the day at 6pm but you could carry on till 8pm when the caretaker threw us out! So, effectively, it was two disrupted 12 hour days (say 9 -10 hours effective modelling time) plus 2-ish hours on Day 3 until they said 'step away from your layouts!' After which, they allowed you one hour fettling time, ie no more building but 'adjustments' were OK (also useful as rehearsal time). That probably explains how Cambrian Coasters short circuit magically disappeared.

[Captain Kernow]

On 30/09/2019 at 09:29, Neil said:

In our case the motivations were comradeship and that old fashioned Olympic ideal of taking part.

Just to say, Neil, that CTMK and I thought that 'you were robbed' in the Scratchbuilt Challenge.

 

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, LNER4479 said:

And the rest! You can multiply that three-fold because it is not only your filming that is disruptive but also when the team next door to you is also being filmed ('cos you equally can't be doing any hammering, banging, drilling, etc during those times either). One of our team lost a whole hour simply because he left his desk in the adjacent work room only to return to find the camera crew had plonked themselves there to filum the guy working next door!

 

We found that the 'golden time' was the first hour (from 8am) when they let you in but were still busy getting themselves set up and also the last two hours as they effectively packed up for the day at 6pm but you could carry on till 8pm when the caretaker threw us out! So, effectively, it was two disrupted 12 hour days (say 9 -10 hours effective modelling time) plus 2-ish hours on Day 3 until they said 'step away from your layouts!' After which, they allowed you one hour fettling time, ie no more building but 'adjustments' were OK (also useful as rehearsal time). That probably explains how Cambrian Coasters short circuit magically disappeared.

So a slightly longer day than the crews but more interrupted so still only around 20 hours which makes the achievements of all of you even more impressive. How much work was done away from the layout in the work room? Presumably, and despite your lost hour,  you were rather less interrupted by filming in there- or were you?

Edited October 1, 2019 by Pacific231G

[iL Dottore]

3 hours ago, Phil Parker said:

 

...Speaking as someone who has covered static grass twice on BRM DVD's, 1 minute isn't enough to do any topic justice. ... 

Very good point, Phil. To clarify, I wasn't thinking of something along the lines of (say) "learn how to do static grass in one minute or less", but rather along the lines of "when railway modellers want to create grass they can use many things, from dyed teddy bear fur to dyed sawdust scatter.. currently very popular is Static Grass which......" So, not an explanation or mini (nano?) tutorial but rather an exposure to something most viewers would not have encountered.

[Professor Yaffle]

1 hour ago, Pacific231G said:

How much work was done away from the layout in the work room? Presumably, and despite your lost hour,  you were rather less interrupted by filming in there- or were you? 

Our experience of it was there was nowhere to hide from the cameras, however they didnt seem to follow you into the toilets!

When we were at full strength we usually had two, sometimes three of the team in the work room and the rest of us shambling about in the main area. It rather depended on what the production team thought was interesting at the time to what they poked a camera at. They would ask you to hold on while they got into position or give them a nudge when you were about to do something. Whenever the cameras arrived you seemed to loose time, as you might have to repeat whatever you were going to do more than once and quite often three or more times. This did become a little frustrating as the time rapidly dwindled away.

I would also agree the best points to 'get something done' was first thing in the morning, when the cameras weren't ready to roll. When the crew were having lunch and at the end of the day, when it was just us and the other competitors.

[Professor Yaffle]

6 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

 yet another shot of a Peacock

The peacocks, although an integral part of the Fawley landscape, did prove to be a nuisance during the shooting due to the noise and could easily destroy an interview. One of the young production runners was tasked as ‘Peacock Scarer’ – we all have to start somewhere (I painted grass green).

However just for you….

[RJS1977]

7 hours ago, Penlan said:

At 8pm?
Not in our matriarchal household, it's going to be strictly tuned into BBC1.
I suppose I could watch elsewhere.

(Or continue wiring the fiddle yard )

 

More importantly, it clashes with Dad's Army!

[LNER4479]

Ah yes ... I wondered who would be the first to spot that ...

[LMS29]

13 hours ago, Pacific231G said:

So a slightly longer day than the crews but more interrupted so still only around 20 hours which makes the achievements of all of you even more impressive. How much work was done away from the layout in the work room? Presumably, and despite your lost hour,  you were rather less interrupted by filming in there- or were you?

 

The reality was that the Producers were always on the look out for interesting shots and patrolled both main hall and the work room.  As the work room was tightly packed with tables, once a Producer found an item they wanted to film and moved in with camera and sound recorders they really affected all three teams. I should add that the tea and biscuits were also in the room!  This was all part of the fun of taking part!

[Ian Morgan]

Static grass application was described and shown in the first series.

 

 

[Ian Morgan]

If I remember correctly, at the time, Tim Shaw was looking pointedly at James Richardson's bald head. 

 

 

[LocoLadies CF]

On 29/09/2019 at 11:52, Edge said:

 

My apologies if this section is in response to my comment - I certainly did not mean for there to be any sort of impression that I was criticising you or your teammates for anything on the production side of the show. You were wonderful and above all seemed to be enjoying yourselves immensely. 

 

I actually thought that the crochet trees were very good fun indeed  I’d have given extra marks for that actually  both for imagination and for an additional skill not often used in railway modelling 

Don’t worry. I didn’t take it as a criticism.... none of the teams can predict how they will be edited.  The directors kept wanting me to say “we are better than the men which is why we were going to win”. Needless  to say I neither thought that nor said it. We just wanted to make an interesting layout that was enjoyable to look at. 

 

Photo is just to prove not all our water ran off the board.  This pond stayed in place. 

[Phil Parker]

On 01/10/2019 at 19:39, RJS1977 said:

 

More importantly, it clashes with Dad's Army!

 

Don't panic about that.

[PhilJ W]

6 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Don't panic about that.

G-R-O-A-N

[noiseboy72]

2 hours ago, LocoLadies CF said:

Don’t worry. I didn’t take it as a criticism.... none of the teams can predict how they will be edited.  The directors kept wanting me to say “we are better than the men which is why we were going to win”. Needless  to say I neither thought that nor said it. We just wanted to make an interesting layout that was enjoyable to look at. 

 

Photo is just to prove not all our water ran off the board.  This pond stayed in place. 

I like the rippled effect, how did you create that?

[whart57]

You know what I always think is a shame when I see those Hornby 4-wheelers is how they look so unlike Victorian carriages. They are far too tall. I suppose there was a bit of making them fit the profile of later coaches but to me that was an opportunity lost

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, LocoLadies CF said:

The directors kept wanting me to say “we are better than the men which is why we were going to win”. Needless  to say I neither thought that nor said it.

 

Good on you Carol (I wish others didn't fall into that trap), I thought you came across really well.

[RusselBridge2017]

On 27/09/2019 at 22:46, LocoLadies CF said:

 

Thank you ... we were serious contenders and wanted to show what we could do. The trees seem to have been very popular though. More than Kathy thought they would be maybe ...... 

I too have to voice my support of your trees, very alternative, brilliant idea, just what the GMRC Production team must want, but obviously not the judges.

 

Salvador Dali must have received the same reception to start with, for me the most original part of series 2.

[chuffinghell]

I think we should have a Christmas special where the judges and presenters build a layout in the same time frame

 

Judges vs presenters maybe?

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by chuffinghell

[Pacific231G]

1 hour ago, chuffinghell said:

I think we should have a Christmas special where the judges and presenters build a layout in the same time frame

 

Judges vs presenters maybe?

 

 

With constant interruptions from directors wanting them to do things several times over for the camera

That would actually be qute good fun and I'm sure Kathy and Steve could make a pretty good fist of it - Kathy in particulare is well used to demonstrating modelling techniques on camera- the presenters though would probably just get in the way. My experience of working with presenters is that they usually do, though they do have their uses. For some reason viewers seem to prefer someone telling them what they're seeing than seeing it for themselves.

Edited October 3, 2019 by Pacific231G
typo

[chuffinghell]

22 minutes ago, Pacific231G said:

............Kathy in particular is well used to demonstrating modelling techniques on camera............

 

Very true, I've watched a number of Kathy's YouTube videos demonstrating various modelling techniques and I must say she is very good

 

I would also like to see Steve encouraged to use techniques that are considered modern as I get the impression from both the show and from reading a certain magazine he edits that he's not very open to modern forms of modelling like 3d printing and laser cutting etc

 

I'd be interesting to see if James Richardson and Tim Shaw have picked up any tips/skills themselves whilst presenting too

 

 

Edited October 3, 2019 by chuffinghell

[LocoLadies CF]

3 hours ago, RusselBridge2017 said:

I too have to voice my support of your trees, very alternative, brilliant idea, just what the GMRC Production team must want, but obviously not the judges.

 

Salvador Dali must have received the same reception to start with, for me the most original part of series 2.

Thank you for that .... it made me laugh as well. Nice to do something a bit different. As I said before ... we all liked the crochet trees even though Kathy didn’t like them.   

Edited October 3, 2019 by LocoLadies CF