Hornby APT (2020 tooling)

[Hilux5972]

6 minutes ago, Pre Grouping fan said:

Interesting to see the solo NDM coach will be powered

Yes very. 2 Power cars for the 14 coach train is a great move. Will be interesting to see how it performs pushing/pulling the train from the centre. 

[Hilux5972]

Interesting to see the R3874 7 car pack includes the test coach too. Obviously this can be removed for a 14 coach rake to be accurate 

[stovepipe]

OK great finally some clarification. The remaining question is whether both NDMs in the 7-car pack are powered, or just one, meaning the separate NDM would need to be purchased as well, for a 14-car set with black fronts.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2020 by stovepipe
Clarifying

[Pete the Elaner]

6 minutes ago, Hilux5972 said:

Yes very. 2 Power cars for the 14 coach train is a great move. Will be interesting to see how it performs pushing/pulling the train from the centre. 

The articulated bogies on most of the vehicles will force the use of some sort of rigid coupling. This was also true of the earlier model.

The lack of snatching will help with running, so I am expecting the model will cope fairly well.

[PaulRhB]

37 minutes ago, stovepipe said:

OK great finally some clarification. The remaining question is whether both NDMs in the 7-car pack are powered, or just one, meaning the separate NDM would need to be purchased as well, for a 14-car set with black fronts.

 

 

As all the references are to powered NDM cars I’d be surprised if not when the individual one to make up the 5 car set is definitely also powered. The separate power car is numbered and stated to be to complete the 5 car set in the posts above.  

[stovepipe]

18 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

As all the references are to powered NDM cars I’d be surprised if not when the individual one to make up the 5 car set is definitely also powered. The separate power car is numbered and stated to be to complete the 5 car set in the posts above.  

 

True...but the price difference between the 5-car and the 7-car sets is only £90, whilst individually the difference of the additional NDM and the TS-U is £150 (Hornby RRPs). Hornby are not given to inconsistent pricing on the low side, so it makes me wonder if there are more details to come out.

 

[Jamiel]

Just in case anyone wishes to run the APT on a layout without overhead wires, here are a couple of photos taken during their testing.

 

Top image by Phil Sangwell and bottom John Woolley.

 

Of course for the bottom rake you would have to build a prototype HST powercar.

 

Does anyone know what the Derby Test Train coach is?

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by Jamiel

[BernardTPM]

Looks like it could be this one. Note it has seven bays so must have been an FO not an SO. There was another similar coach but that had a generator so the roof was slightly different to the one in the above photo.

[letterspider]

http://www.traintesting.com/RTC_rolling_stock_index.htm

[7APT7]

On 31/01/2020 at 00:37, John ks said:

Jamie 

if I understand you correctly you want a model of every APT-P vehicle that existed

According to Wikipedia  there were 6 half sets, 6 N-DMs & as spares 1 DTS & 1 TBF numbered 48107 & 48607

 

Number matching sets                     (IIRC nose colour information is from a previous poster who asked Hornby)

Half set 370 001 &  half set 370 002 can be made with 7 car pack & 4 coach packs R400**A (1 APT-U spare ) (black nose)

Half set 370 003 &  half set 370 004 can be made with 5 car pack & 4 coach packs R400**   & R3948 N-D M (yellow nose)

 

The following set will require renumbering

Half set 370 005 &  half set 370 006 can be made with 7 car pack & 4 coach packs R400**A (1 APT-U spare) (black nose)

 

That leaves  DTS & TBF numbered 48107 & 48607 (black nose)

The only way I know to get these is from a 7 car set which leaves a DTS,TBF,2 N-D M & an APT-P left over (you could renumber 1 of the N-D M instead of buying R3948 for half sets 370 003 & 4)

 hope this helps

John

 

 

Hi John

 

Thanks for the in-site... and a 'savings plan' as been put into place haha... lol ready to buy what I need.

 

So... Did all the APT-P 370's '001/002/003/004/005/006/007' have Full Yellow Fronted Ends then to start off life with...?

and if not, which of the 370's Numbers only had the Half Black Window Surrounds...?

 

Interesting, as I would have expected the early years while still building that the APT-P to have 'All Full Yellow Fronted Ends' as that is how it was first released so to speak and those being mainly 370 001/002/003 maybe 004 perhaps (...would that be Correct to say...? Hmmm) and the 'Half Black Window Surrounds' APT-P to be in the later versions and definitely part of 370 005/006/007, and therefore Coach Numbers... Sc48#05 / Sc48#06 / Sc48#07's were apart of the 'Half Black Window Surrounds'...?

 

Or... Did the 'Half Black Window Surrounds' come in much later after (all 7) APT-P 370's 001 to 007 Numbers were made...? and only a few were selected for 'Half Black Window Surrounds' or again did they all end up life in 'Half Black Window Surrounds'. (Sorry... I'm just trying to get my head around what was, and what wasn't).

 

I noticed you said "According to Wikipedia  there were 6 half sets, 6 N-DMs & as spares 1 DTS & 1 TBF numbered 48107 & 48607"  (So never was N-DMs 49007 only 49001 to  49006...?) with ONLY Sc49003 being Named 'City of Derby'

 

So again not all Numbers ran up to 48#07 as we seem to have 6 Half Sets but 7 Numbers 370 001 to 007...?

Is it possible to Clarify more on this...!?! (If possible, or some one else if that helps, Thanks)

 

Thanks fir the Information previously...

Regards

Jamie

[Legend]

I used to see them at Shields Rd , Glasgow . I think they all started off as full yellow ends then had the black window surrounds added sometime during 1980. 

[7APT7]

9 minutes ago, Legend said:

I used to see them at Shields Rd , Glasgow . I think they all started off as full yellow ends then had the black window surrounds added sometime during 1980. 

 

Hi Legend

 

Yes, that's what I was thinking but I wasn't sure if it was All of them and all in the InterCity Livery or just the First Few before going over to the Black Surround Windows, and would the Black Surround Windows have happen when the InterCity Swallow Livery came in to play then...? or is the InterCity Swallow sometime much later...? 

 

Regards

Jamie

Edited February 1, 2020 by 7APT7

[Legend]

No Swallow was much later . Remember the APT was in a unique livery which subsequently became the InterCity livery in 84 (?) . It was then applied to HSTs  then loco stock. .Swallow was not till the 90s I think . 

[7APT7]

1 minute ago, Legend said:

No Swallow was much later . Remember the APT was in a unique livery which subsequently became the InterCity livery in 84 (?) . It was then applied to HSTs  then loco stock. .Swallow was not till the 90s I think . 

 

Hi Legend

 

I only say the InterCity Swallow and yes Unique Livery (I should have added that in....oops) as I remember the Class 89001 moving over from the InterCity Livery to the InterCity Swallow Livery but like you say I had a feeling it was much later. In my head, I only ever remember the very early 80's on wards, I cant say I remember any of the 70's as I would have only been 7 years old. I tend to remember the 80's better or clearer I should say and If I do remember any of the 70's it tends to blend in with the 80's or was earlier than I thought, from my days with my Dad and Bro Strain Spotting in those early good old days lol

 

Regards

Jamie 

[7APT7]

8 hours ago, Jamiel said:

Just in case anyone wishes to run the APT on a layout without overhead wires, here are a couple of photos taken during their testing.

 

Top image by Phil Sangwell and bottom John Woolley.

 

 

Of course for the bottom rake you would have to build a prototype HST powercar.

 

Does anyone know what the Derby Test Train coach is?

 

 

Hi Jamiel

Top image by Phil Sangwell and bottom John Woolley.

 

That is a great reference material to look back on, I think that is a formation I can Run on a Layout... or nearly...

 

Image by Colin Marsden

QUOTE "Info by Colin Marsden Test Service Car No9 RDB975631 was converted from SO No3009 and was used as a surrogate APT power car for testing trailer rakes. It was scrapped - BR, East Usk in September 1987"

 

Do we know if Bachmann via LTD ED or Model Zone as ever released this RTC Coach above...?

 

Regards

Jamie

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by 7APT7

[Jamiel]

Thanks for the RTC coach info to all who have posted.

I am glad the photos open up possibilities for people to model.

 

I must look back through the 'Locomotives Illustrated' magazines I have but I seem to remember seeing a photo of an APT with its front up for towing being pulled by a class 37. I think it was a short rake, 5-6 cars in total. I will look tomorrow.
 

Jamie

[7APT7]

7 hours ago, BernardTPM said:

Looks like it could be this one. Note it has seven bays so must have been an FO not an SO. There was another similar coach but that had a generator so the roof was slightly different to the one in the above photo.

 

Hi BernaerdTPM

 

Yes... I noticed it looked more of a FO than a SO, as the SO have 8 bays don't they...? and Your Interesting Reference Material is great from your Link.

 

Regards

Jamie

[7APT7]

3 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

Thanks for the RTC coach info to all who have posted.

I am glad the photos open up possibilities for people to model.

 

I must look back through the 'Locomotives Illustrated' magazines I have but I seem to remember seeing a photo of an APT with its front up for towing being pulled by a class 37. I think it was a short rake, 5-6 cars in total. I will look tomorrow.
 

Jamie

 

Hi Jamiel

 

The Information is great Jamiel as it's a tad outside of my memory / Era, so those type of photos are a great bonus for me or those who are certainly younger than me to Model and Run those possibilities on a Layouts. As I'm sure all the Information is great to have in a Central Knowledge Base to use as Reference Material.

 

Regards

Jamie

 

[7APT7]

8 minutes ago, Jamiel said:

Thanks for the RTC coach info to all who have posted.

I am glad the photos open up possibilities for people to model.

 

I must look back through the 'Locomotives Illustrated' magazines I have but I seem to remember seeing a photo of an APT with its front up for towing being pulled by a class 37. I think it was a short rake, 5-6 cars in total. I will look tomorrow.
 

Jamie

 

That's Funny Jamiel, I have just ordered some Old Spotting Books from 1978 to 1984 to see what they say was running at the time, and give me any extra information that may be helpful from back in those times. I'd be interested to see more Photo's if you have any on more Odd Formations while on Test at the Time.

 

Regards

Jamie

[7APT7]

Questions for someone here...

 

The TU Coach (Trailer Unclassified), I know that First Class had the Blue Tartan seating patterns, while the Second Class had the Red Tartan seating patterns on the chairs, but what colour were the TU (Trailer Unclassified) Chairs...?  

 

I take it they were one of the two colours but does anyone know which...? I'm Interested in what there were in...?

 

Regards

Jamie

[Jamiel]

I had a quick look and found ‘Modern Locomotives Illustrated No. 176 Blue Pullman and the APT fleets’. Worth getting if you can find a copy.

 

Here are a couple of photos of short sets being pulled on the ECML and between Carlisle and Newcastle.

 

Here the top image shows one of the sets I posted above, and another that only has a single APT power car.

 

I hope these offer some interesting modelling opportunities. Not sure Hornby are doing a lifting front canopy, so to model the first two images might involve taking a razor saw to a new and expensive model.

 

Jamie

[BernardTPM]

Almost certainly the First Class blue tartan as they were 2+1 seats at First Class spacing. It was similar in the TRUK and TRUB coaches in HST (though there they were a very 1970s First Class Orange!). Very disappointing when they reclassified them as Firsts

[BernardTPM]

1 hour ago, Legend said:

No Swallow was much later . Remember the APT was in a unique livery which subsequently became the InterCity livery in 84 (?) . It was then applied to HSTs  then loco stock. .Swallow was not till the 90s I think . 

'Swallow' INTERCITY livery was launched at the InterCity21 Open Day at Bounds Green in 1987. The ex-APT 'Exectutive' InterCity livery first appeared in late 1983 on an HST.

[7APT7]

2 minutes ago, BernardTPM said:

'Swallow' INTERCITY livery was launched at the InterCity21 Open Day at Bounds Green in 1987. The ex-APT 'Exectutive' InterCity livery first appeared in late 1983 on an HST.

 

Hi BernardTPM

 

Ah... so that 'Exectutive' InterCity came out before 'Swallow' INTERCITY livery and was some overlap then but was on the HST in 1983...

That's interesting to note. and 1987 the APT-P had already been scrapped by then...!

 

Regards

Jamie

[BernardTPM]

Cover of Modern Railways, December 1983 and Rail Enthusiast (now Rail) same month, so were out in November. I've got both of those and can remember getting them new (I was SO modern at the time ).