New tooling - BR Standard 2MT 2-6-0 2MT 78xxx

[Market65]

Hi. Well, in the afternoon I purchased 78047 from Monk Bar Models, York. It runs superbly, quietly and is so controllable at all speeds. The 2MT has certainly been worth the wait. So here’s a few photo’s of it taken with my iPhone in artificial light.

 

 

 

 

 

And here is the bag of detailing parts.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

[Wheatley]

Ha ! Beaten to it ! Here's the other version (early crest, not AWS fitted), also picked up from Monkbar Models today:

 

Performance is as per Rob's, even straight out of the box in the shop. 

 

Someone further up the thread was wondering about the drawbar:

 

It negotiates a 3rd radius reverse curve with a wagon length straight bit in the middle on the short drawbar setting (just !) with a bit of tweaking to the cab doors. And yes that is a snowplough in the bag of bits ! (Rob's pic). 

 

As for unboxing, there's a box and it comes out of it. Sam who ? 

Edited October 5, 2023 by Wheatley

[MikeParkin65]

Interesting that whilst the pony wheel has the very distinctive Stanier bevel the driving wheels appear to be plain. Photos of the prototype show the drivers too should be bevelled.  

[adb968008]

It runs on nothing….

i mean it starts turning, and after 2 minutes Ive not got 1/8 th of a wheel rotation..

 

heres a quick spin from start upto max and back.

 

I mean seriously, this is one of the most environmentally friendly models there is… it starts moving at 0.01amp.. top of range is 0.12amp.

 

check out the ammeter.. its picking up and it is wheels turning at 0.01a..

 

 

This is at the low range of power, but the 5 pole motor packs it in.

Its not a race horse but its a very good top speed for the model.

 

First impressions, it feels like a Sanda Kan model from 10 years ago, the old style box and packaging, the style of paint finish and plastic, it would sit nice next to a Black5 and B1, which is good as it probably will on your layout.

 

It is however clearly several steps more upgraded…

1. Wheels are cast, its nice to see those old wheel rims are long gone.. but.. the old axle nuts are still there.

Also of note is the connecting rods are not fluted. A quick check at 78047 images and this is correct, similarly looking at 78006 Hornby has this with fluted rods, so this aspect has been captured. Similarly 78010 in 1950’s does not have its AWS battery box etc.

 

 

Cab interior..

 

 

The plastic cut out below the footplate, allows the jst to come out with the chassis.. i’m not a fan, but can see why they did it but when the tenders coupled you cannot see it.

 

 

nice pipe detail, mine has a bit of sprue behind the back side of the chimney..

 

to hide the close coupling better the rainsheet is modelled. This is moulded on.
 

The loco and tender weighs in at 300g, the body is diecast..

 

The speedo is also screwed nicely to the frame. (This is a boon for anyone who has attempted to remove speedo attached Hornby locos in the past…

The speedo does vibrate on the crank, I guess the manufacturers need to work on this, its rotating, but it should not be visibly gyrating on the crank.

 

inside is a high quality 5 pole motor…

 

I have to be honest, I find that using a better than average 5 pole, with angled windings is the secret to the fantastic slow pickup, and see this in the Turbomotive and Dapol Manor. The use of better quality motors in steam locos should be called out

 

See here compared to the N20 in the Accurascale Manor and the 2MT has a much smaller firebox space to hide it.

 

 

i am going to run it on slow and see how long a wheel revolution takes…

 

But overall very impressed and worth the wait. It feels ive gone back a few years, but also moved forwards is the best way to describe, its different to the Turbomotive and 9f.. but its definitely upto date… Maybe I was spoilt with the working headlamps, and the firebox glow of the Turbomotive but this is a long awaited loco and its a real upgrade on models of not long ago.

one minor call out… of the choices modelled, 78010, 47 and 54.. these three all have an extra step on either side of the front running frame, unfortunately not modelled…

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by adb968008

[Wheatley]

1 hour ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Interesting that whilst the pony wheel has the very distinctive Stanier bevel the driving wheels appear to be plain. Photos of the prototype show the drivers too should be bevelled.  

There's a slight bevel, but it's hard to see and even harder to photograph on a phone. Not nearly as pronounced as on the Gibson drivers under my DJH one. 

 

[Daddyman]

8 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Interesting that whilst the pony wheel has the very distinctive Stanier bevel the driving wheels appear to be plain. Photos of the prototype show the drivers too should be bevelled.  

Interesting... And silly, as they've done bevelled wheels before, haven't they? - on the 4MT 4-6-0, for example? 

 

On the plus side, it looks from photos that Hornby have not gone in for their usual mania for mould lines at 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock on the boiler? Or are they just not showing up in phone-camera shots? Seem to remember they were pretty prominent on the pre-production version.

 

I still don't like the line where the boiler top meets the boiler bottom, and what that will mean for trying to convert it to P4. I cancelled my pre-order a few years ago for that reason. But then tempted again just to have one to run on my dad's 00 layout. But now these bevel-less wheels...  

 

 

 

[MikeParkin65]

1 hour ago, Daddyman said:

Interesting... And silly, as they've done bevelled wheels before, haven't they? - on the 4MT 4-6-0, for example? 

 

On the plus side, it looks from photos that Hornby have not gone in for their usual mania for mould lines at 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock on the boiler? Or are they just not showing up in phone-camera shots? Seem to remember they were pretty prominent on the pre-production version.

 

I still don't like the line where the boiler top meets the boiler bottom, and what that will mean for trying to convert it to P4. I cancelled my pre-order a few years ago for that reason. But then tempted again just to have one to run on my dad's 00 layout. But now these bevel-less wheels...  

 

 

 

Yes - Hornby have generally been pretty consistent with decent Stanier pattern wheels for the drivers at least since the 2002 Black Five and with recent releases like the 9F so this is a strange step backwards.

 

I dont need one of these so I was hoping to be tempted by something outstanding. Whilst its obviously a very good model it is for me not a huge improvement over the existing Bachmann Ivatt 2mt (of which both of mine run beautifully on DCC) and is a little expensive and feature poor relative to other recent similar size loco's (AS Manor, Rapido 15xx - the latter can be had sound fitted for only £18 more). 

 

I'll either wait until these are available at a lower price point (new or second hand) or just pass. Next potential Hornby loco for me then will be the Black Five if they decide to do a run of the mill late crest unnamed example, otherwise quite happy Brassmastering the 2002 model  :)

[Captain Kernow]

2 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I still don't like the line where the boiler top meets the boiler bottom, and what that will mean for trying to convert it to P4. I cancelled my pre-order a few years ago for that reason

I wonder what the axle diameter is, in case it was possible to substitute the Hornby wheelsets for Gibsons?

 

I would be happy to convert to P4 on that basis, the lack of springing or compensation with a heavy body is not necessarily a problem for me.

 

[Adi]

11 hours ago, Market65 said:

Hi. Well, in the afternoon I purchased 78047 from Monk Bar Models, York. It runs superbly, quietly and is so controllable at all speeds. The 2MT has certainly been worth the wait. So here’s a few photo’s of it taken with my iPhone in artificial light.

 

 

 

 

 

And here is the bag of detailing parts.

 

 

Best regards,

 

Rob.

 

Does it have fire box glow

[Wheatley]

No firebox glow. 

 

From the very unscientific method of picking them both up at the same time, the Hornby one seems slightly heavier than the all-whitemetal DJH kit, which is quite impressive for RTR. No facilities here to conduct a proper traction test here just at the moment though. 

[adb968008]

300g including tender, its relative to what you’d expect from a 2MT. I figure it’d have no issue with 6 on a level.. anything more is unrealistic.

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by adb968008

[Daddyman]

2 hours ago, MikeParkin65 said:

Yes - Hornby have generally been pretty consistent with decent Stanier pattern wheels for the drivers at least since the 2002 Black Five and with recent releases like the 9F so this is a strange step backwards.

 

I dont need one of these so I was hoping to be tempted by something outstanding. Whilst its obviously a very good model it is for me not a huge improvement over the existing Bachmann Ivatt 2mt (of which both of mine run beautifully on DCC) and is a little expensive and feature poor relative to other recent similar size loco's (AS Manor, Rapido 15xx - the latter can be had sound fitted for only £18 more). 

 

I'll either wait until these are available at a lower price point (new or second hand) or just pass. Next potential Hornby loco for me then will be the Black Five if they decide to do a run of the mill late crest unnamed example, otherwise quite happy Brassmastering the 2002 model  :)

I think it is better than Bachmann's 2MT, which never looked right to me (wheels too small?), and that's why I was tempted by this. I think fundamentally it looks right and the two problem areas - boiler gash and wheels - would be "solved" (with some swearing in the case of the boiler) by putting a new chassis under it. But like you, I think I'll wait, even thouh it's the loco I've wanted modelled for 45+ years.

 

The annoying thing is, if you do pay £200 for one and then want to get rid of the chassis, they don't fetch much on ebay because the chassis has a bit of boiler tagging along for the ride, so is little use to buyer; and the buyer also needs the tender chassis (or needs to know how to rewire the loco chassis) in order to run it. 

 

Maybe I'll get back to the Mike Edge/Bachmann conversion. 

 

[coronach]

It’s a beautiful model and runs beautifully straight out of the box. The detail is excellent as far as I’m concerned and captures the look of these engines perfectly. 

[coronach]

3 minutes ago, coronach said:

It’s a beautiful model and runs beautifully straight out of the box. The detail is excellent as far as I’m concerned and captures the look of these engines perfectly. 

I now have a 3D version of my drawing - well I will have after it’s weathered. 

 

Edited October 6, 2023 by coronach

[Jub45565]

How good does the valve spindle guide look? I currently have a couple of Dave Bradwell's 9F castings, as all other options both RTR and kit have looked pathetic for the latter LMS and BR type.  The 9F isn't quite the right length for class 2s, though shouldn't be too hard to make suit - but if the Hornby one is good then trying to get hold of some cylinder blocks would be the way to go.

[cessna152towser]

It has been a while since I last bought a steam outline loco but living in Hawick where 78047 spent most of its working life this was a must have.

[Porcy Mane]

4 hours ago, Captain Kernow said:

I wonder what the axle diameter is, in case it was possible to substitute the Hornby wheelsets for Gibsons?

 

I would be happy to convert to P4 on that basis, the lack of springing or compensation with a heavy body is not necessarily a problem for me.

 

I don't have one  (probably Monday) as yet so am probably a little premature but would guess that the axles will be 2mm. I'd be pretty chuffed if that's the case as, for me, it opens a few options for P4 conversion. I'm rather glad that Hornby have stuck with the plastic wheel centres. Have to get rid of those tooling lines along the the boiler first.

 

9F to sort out first fifth though. That's after sorting out the tooling lines along a batch of Q6.  (or should that be Q6's?).

 

[Wheatley]

3 hours ago, Daddyman said:

I think it is better than Bachmann's 2MT, which never looked right to me (wheels too small?), and that's why I was tempted by this.

 

19mm on the Bachman Ivatt, 20mm on the Hornby. They've been side by side on the shelf above my desk and I hadn't clocked that until you mentioned it, whether its more noticeable once I've painted the steel wheel rims we shall see. 

 

2 hours ago, coronach said:

I now have a 3D version of my drawing - well I will have after it’s weathered. 

 

Yes it's far too clean, but we know a cure for that - mwah ha ha !! Nice drawing !👍

[MikeParkin65]

45 minutes ago, Wheatley said:

 

19mm on the Bachman Ivatt, 20mm on the Hornby. They've been side by side on the shelf above my desk and I hadn't clocked that until you mentioned it, whether its more noticeable once I've painted the steel wheel rims we shall see. 

 

Yes it's far too clean, but we know a cure for that - mwah ha ha !! Nice drawing !👍

I've never noticed the Bachmann drivers as being small from which I reckon in my minds eye at least it looks 'right'. Prototype drivers quoted as 5 ft so 20mm is scale, 19mm is 4ft 9 - be interesting to see the Hornby model side by side with the Bachmann to see whether that difference is discernable. If it is I'd put it down to 'tyre wear' 😉

 

No doubting the Hornby model is good - glad folk are happy with a model that has seemed a long time coming. 

[The Stationmaster]

Might be the photos but is the angle of the cab side sheet right?  It looks too near vertical but - as i said - that might be due to teh angle of teh photos

[adb968008]

Mickey Meece compared..

 

Dimensionally they are the same, loco and tender.

You can see the age difference between tooling intricacy especially on the tender and the coupling rods / wheels.

 

 

difference in wheel size can be seen, c1mm.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 7, 2023 by adb968008

[adb968008]

Ive run a black marker pen around the wheel rims of the 78xxx now they should sit nicely together, what do we think ?

Edited October 7, 2023 by adb968008

[SteamingWales]

3 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive run a black marker pen around the wheel rims of the 78xxx now they should sit nicely together, what do we think ?

 

Definitely worth doing and I will be doing similar on 78006 when she arrives with me 

 

Keep the photos coming everyone too! Any on layouts with trains per chance?

[MikeParkin65]

4 hours ago, adb968008 said:

Ive run a black marker pen around the wheel rims of the 78xxx now they should sit nicely together, what do we think ?

Looks miles better and glad I’m not to only one who uses the black marker! The comparison shots are really helpful too, I think both models will happily sit together on a layout and neither look out of place. That plastic ‘copper’ pipe works needs toning down too in my opinion.  In a layout context I don’t think the wheel size difference will show at all, it’s very marginal.  

[Flying Pig]

On 05/10/2023 at 23:13, adb968008 said:

The speedo is also screwed nicely to the frame. (This is a boon for anyone who has attempted to remove speedo attached Hornby locos in the past…

The speedo does vibrate on the crank, I guess the manufacturers need to work on this, its rotating, but it should not be visibly gyrating on the crank.

 

Tweak the crank forward so that the axis of the speedo sits over the axle centreline.  It is currently off-centre which is why it describes a small circle.