My car has been cloned

[hayfield]

12 hours ago, Half-full said:

I bought a brand new car last year, happily driving along the road a few months later I was stopped by the police, who told me that my registration plates belonged to a different car from the same manufacturer.  They impounded my car and I was taken to the police station and cautioned.  I went home, car-less and returned to the police station the next day with all the paper work from the garage I bought the car from, stating all the details of my car, plus the registration document from DVLA.

 

The police contacted the garage who initially denied all knowledge but eventually admitted they had used the same registration not only on my car, the other car they were 'registered' too, but also a third car!!!!

 

I had to arrange for the garage to re-register my car on different plates, arrange for the insurance to get updated (which I was charged for) then wait for the new V5 to come from DVLA before the police would release my car, which took almost 2 weeks and which I had to pay almost £400 for. 

 

So far the garage has offered me a free valet at my first service, but has invoiced me for the registration fee, new road tax and new plates! 

 

I'm taking this further.

 

 

 

Sorry to hear of your problems, what are the DVLA doing when they see 3 cars with the same registration ?

 

I would take the garage to the cleaners and seek proper recompense for being arrested due to their incompetence and loss of use of your vehicle, if the garage is part of a trade organization get them involved along with the car manufacturer 

 

Edit

 

Write to either watch dog, or that Dan fellow, I missed the bit about the garage charging you £400 to resolve their error!! 

Edited February 9, 2020 by hayfield

[MarkC]

55 minutes ago, Half-full said:

Thanks Mark

 

The police told me that its not particularly uncommon, the DVLA being the weakest link - which I can believe, when I called the DVLA about it the person I spoke almost seemed surprised that they dealt with motoring related items, a complete thicko!!!

 

I did contact the local press who declined my story as the garage (a major chain) is one of the their main advertisers.  Trading standards not interested and the Motor Trade Ombudsman not interested.  Both said take it up with the Police!  And my local MP, if you're not a vegan tubthumper, she isn't interested!

 

I did instruct a lawyer though who is handling the case for me.  So far its been about 3 months and is heading to the small courts.  I've paid nothing to the garage, who have threatened me with debt collectors!

 

I've since found out through online forums that this chain of garages make regular mistakes with registrations, from whats happened to me to making up plates with the letters in the wrong order., sheer incompetence of staff

 

 

Good grief - this goes from bad to worse. In that case, can I suggest, if you haven't been in touch already, that this person may well be very interested in this sorry story

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/money/katie-morley-investigates-contact-form/

 

As for your MP - their lack of interest is disgusting. Dare one ask their identity?

 

Mark

Edited February 9, 2020 by MarkC

[johnofwessex]

1 hour ago, Half-full said:

Thanks Mark

 

The police told me that its not particularly uncommon, the DVLA being the weakest link - which I can believe, when I called the DVLA about it the person I spoke almost seemed surprised that they dealt with motoring related items, a complete thicko!!!

 

I did contact the local press who declined my story as the garage (a major chain) is one of the their main advertisers.  Trading standards not interested and the Motor Trade Ombudsman not interested.  Both said take it up with the Police!  And my local MP, if you're not a vegan tubthumper, she isn't interested!

 

I did instruct a lawyer though who is handling the case for me.  So far its been about 3 months and is heading to the small courts.  I've paid nothing to the garage, who have threatened me with debt collectors!

 

I've since found out through online forums that this chain of garages make regular mistakes with registrations, from whats happened to me to making up plates with the letters in the wrong order., sheer incompetence of staff

 

 

 

I would suggest

 

1. A formal complaint to the DVLA, possibly CC The Chief Constable , rather than talking to a muppet on the phone.  Point out the potential for crime at the dealer.

2. I presume that they are a franchised dealer, in which case complain to the manufacturer.

3. The BBC?  Its the sort of thing local radio/TV might be interested in

4. The Information Commissioner, they are very scarey

 

[Guest Half-full]

Thanks for all the advice folks.

 

A formal complaint has been sent to the DVLA (three times), the head of the garage group (twice) and the manufacturer, the latter being the only one to respond - saying take it up with the garage and the DVLA.  The police can do no more than give advice to the garage to be more vigilant, as no crime has been committed.

 

I'm reluctant to disclose any names online, my lawyer has advised against it for the moment, but if the garage doesn't come clean in court then I'll unleash the facts to the wider press etc.

4 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

I missed the bit about the garage charging you £400 to resolve their error!! 

 

It was the Police impound that charged me that to release my car, though the garage's invoice of a couple of hundred pounds is a joke!  

[cctransuk]

18 minutes ago, Half-full said:

The police can do no more than give advice to the garage to be more vigilant, as no crime has been committed.

.......

It was the Police impound that charged me that to release my car, though the garage's invoice of a couple of hundred pounds is a joke!  

 

So if no crime has been committed, what right had the police to impound your car - let alone charge you £400 to recover it.

 

I'd be straight onto that one, in no uncertain terms !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[Guest Half-full]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

So if no crime has been committed, what right had the police to impound your car - let alone charge you £400 to recover it.

 

I'd be straight onto that one, in no uncertain terms !!

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

I guess because my car was illegal to drive on the road, being technically unregistered, was the reason it was impounded

[johnofwessex]

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

 

So if they dont reply it can then go to an independent assessor who will look at your complaint.

 

I'm not sure exactly what the DVLA can do for you, although it certainly can look at removing the dealers ability to make numberplates,and register new vehicles

 

You can point out to the manufacturer that the dealer hasnt dealt with the matter in a satisfactory manner and that you do not propose to buy one of their vehicles again unless the matter is properly resolved.

[johnofwessex]

I might add by the way that as in New Zealand I believe that Motor Traders and maintainers should be licensed, which would up the game a bit

[cctransuk]

7 minutes ago, Half-full said:

I guess because my car was illegal to drive on the road, being technically unregistered, was the reason it was impounded

 

Surely they can only penalise you if you knowingly had an unregistered car one the road? In this case you could not have known.

 

They should be pursuing the dealer for fraud - namely, charging you for a service that they had failed to provide; ie. legally registering the car.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Surely they can only penalise you if you knowingly had an unregistered car one the road? In this case you could not have known.

 

They should be pursuing the dealer for fraud - namely, charging you for a service that they had failed to provide; ie. legally registering the car.

 

Regards,

John Isherwood.

 

 

Is this something perhaps is worth getting trading standards could be involved with ?

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Half-full said:

I guess because my car was illegal to drive on the road, being technically unregistered, was the reason it was impounded

 

I would assume part of the sale contract is that the dealer correctly registers and taxes the car, which in this case they plainly faild to do causing you additional out of pocket expenses and not being ably to use the car until they rectified the situation

[Tim V]

If there were three cars, why did they choose yours, and not the other two?

[jchinuk]

20 hours ago, Half-full said:

I bought a brand new car last year, happily driving along the road a few months later I was stopped by the police, who told me that my registration plates belonged to a different car from the same manufacturer.  They impounded my car and I was taken to the police station and cautioned.  I went home, car-less and returned to the police station the next day with all the paper work from the garage I bought the car from, stating all the details of my car, plus the registration document from DVLA.

 

The police contacted the garage who initially denied all knowledge but eventually admitted they had used the same registration not only on my car, the other car they were 'registered' too, but also a third car!!!!

 

I had to arrange for the garage to re-register my car on different plates, arrange for the insurance to get updated (which I was charged for) then wait for the new V5 to come from DVLA before the police would release my car, which took almost 2 weeks and which I had to pay almost £400 for. 

 

So far the garage has offered me a free valet at my first service, but has invoiced me for the registration fee, new road tax and new plates! 

 

I'm taking this further.

 

 

 

Colour me cynical, but any garage (I assume a dealer for the marque?) that does that other than by accident is probably not doing much correctly.

 

I'd contact the manufacturer, they would not want a dodgy dealer (or staff member at the dealers) giving them a bad name.  That said, most manufacturers log cars on their computer systems, so they can send reminders of service etc.  So how did the get three entries with the same reg no?  I assume that the correct VIN numbers were on the respective log books, but the dealers only ask for reg numbers at services, recalls, etc.

 

jh

[Guest Half-full]

Thanks again for all the replies

 

My complaint which will be going through court is directed straight to the garage, to recover my costs.  I'm not interested in compensation, just want my costs covered, including court costs.  I have spent a fair amount of time on phone calls and writing complaints but I wont get that time back.

 

Regarding the costs to get the car released from the pound, I'm not sure who the money goes to, i.e the Police Force or the local council, but I had to pay it to allow my car to be released, there was no way I was getting it back without paying so bit the bullet.

 

1 hour ago, johnofwessex said:

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/driver-and-vehicle-licensing-agency/about/complaints-procedure

 

So if they dont reply it can then go to an independent assessor who will look at your complaint.

 

I'm not sure exactly what the DVLA can do for you, although it certainly can look at removing the dealers ability to make numberplates,and register new vehicles

 

You can point out to the manufacturer that the dealer hasnt dealt with the matter in a satisfactory manner and that you do not propose to buy one of their vehicles again unless the matter is properly resolved.

I've been through the office complaints procedure 3 times with the DVLA with no response whatsoever, and manufacturers don't listen to folk saying they'll never buy one of their products again!  WIsh they did though.

17 minutes ago, Tim V said:

If there were three cars, why did they choose yours, and not the other two?

I was pulled over by the Police whilst driving, I've no idea if they or the garage, have contacted the owners of the other 2 vehicles.  One of the others is legal though!

12 minutes ago, jchinuk said:

 

Colour me cynical, but any garage (I assume a dealer for the marque?) that does that other than by accident is probably not doing much correctly.

 

I'd contact the manufacturer, they would not want a dodgy dealer (or staff member at the dealers) giving them a bad name.  That said, most manufacturers log cars on their computer systems, so they can send reminders of service etc.  So how did the get three entries with the same reg no?  I assume that the correct VIN numbers were on the respective log books, but the dealers only ask for reg numbers at services, recalls, etc.

 

jh

Large dealers aren't really known for doing things right all the time, and when you look at a lot of the staff who only seem interested in their phones and not their job its understandable that mistakes are made - that doesn't make it acceptable though.  I don't for a minute think that it was done on purpose, just general incompetence, and lack of care in the persons job.  An example of that is that when I picked my car up it was given a full valet, except that they used a dirty cloth on the interior which smeared all the gloss finish, windows and chrome parts, and left a sticky residue.  Plus they didn't remove an empty crisp packet from the door pocket!  Had to get the interior completely cleaned before I drove it away.

 

The V5 I received from the DVLA had the correct VIN on it, so whatever the dealer had messed up, the DVLA done the same.

 

One thing I didn't mention earlier was that the finance company have refunded the me the payments I made between picking the car up and getting it re-registered, which I hadn't asked for, so that was a nice bonus.  However I'm still going after the garage for the monies I've had to pay out.

[johnofwessex]

7 minutes ago, Half-full said:

...........................................

 

One thing I didn't mention earlier was that the finance company have refunded the me the payments I made between picking the car up and getting it re-registered, which I hadn't asked for, so that was a nice bonus.  However I'm still going after the garage for the monies I've had to pay out.

 

Just a thought but could the finance company be jointly and severally liable for the other costs??

 

Be worth asking the Solicitor, they might 'cave in' and recover the money from the garage?

[Kelly]

Might be worth a complaint to trading standards too. The garage might have done this a few times with other cars and gotten away with it. 

[Guest Half-full]

2 hours ago, Kelly said:

Might be worth a complaint to trading standards too. The garage might have done this a few times with other cars and gotten away with it. 

I contacted Trading Standards who weren't interested.  They referred me to the Motor Trade Ombudsman, who I had already contacted and weren't interested either!

[kevinlms]

5 hours ago, Tim V said:

If there were three cars, why did they choose yours, and not the other two?

Presumably they haven't caught up with the 3rd driver, yet!

[4630]

You and Yours on BBC Radio 4 might take an interest;

 

BBC R 4  You & Yours Contact Details.

[polybear]

 

12 hours ago, johnofwessex said:

 

Just a thought but could the finance company be jointly and severally liable for the other costs??

 

Be worth asking the Solicitor, they might 'cave in' and recover the money from the garage?

 

I wonder if the car could be rejected via the Finance Company as the dealer had sold you an illegal car not fit for the road?  Might be too late for that angle now though....

As for the car preparation, real quality....not.  Been there, got the T-Shirt.  Bought a new Rover 214Si once - I spent so long checking it over that I knew the Salesmen were taking the piss behind my back.  When I pointed out a bl00dy great run in the paintwork down the passenger door they all went quiet......

It took 3 goes to get a colour match and decent finish when respraying the door (it was silver).  In the end they painted the entire left side of the car.  Worth bearing in mind when you buy a metallic car.

[admiles]

I had a similar "issue" with a new car I bought in 2002.

 

On the day I went to collect my shiny new car I was sat at the salesman's desk doing the handover paperwork and commented that I hadn't seen the car on my way in and that they usually had new cars in the handover area outside the front doors. The salesman looked slightly puzzled and said it was sitting outside the doors and I must of seen it on my way in. "Nope" said I!

 

The salesman swiveled round in his chair and pointed outside and said "there it is" (obviously thinking he had a right one here). "Not mine" I said. "Mine is AX02DGU". "That is AX02DGV"......... You can probably guess the rest!

 

Right car, correct registration on the documents, wrong numberplates!

 

Turns out "my" numberplates were on a car that had been picked up a few days before which should have gone out with AX02DGV on it.

 

Easily done for a large dealership I suspect if there's a lapse in concentration. In fairness it was sorted out overnight but had I not noticed and driven it off the forecourt..... That said this was in the days pre-ANPR so the chances of being spotted would have been much smaller.

[Sidecar Racer]

Back when I was employed by the local Police force a vast majority of my work

was the commissioning of new vehicles .

 

 Imagine the care needed to ensure that the batch of 20 or so identical to look at Ford

Focus cars did'nt suffer this type of problem .

 

 A very careful watch was needed on the paperwork with lots of crosschecking .  

 

 

[MarkC]

44 minutes ago, admiles said:

I had a similar "issue" with a new car I bought in 2002.

 

On the day I went to collect my shiny new car I was sat at the salesman's desk doing the handover paperwork and commented that I hadn't seen the car on my way in and that they usually had new cars in the handover area outside the front doors. The salesman looked slightly puzzled and said it was sitting outside the doors and I must of seen it on my way in. "Nope" said I!

 

The salesman swiveled round in his chair and pointed outside and said "there it is" (obviously thinking he had a right one here). "Not mine" I said. "Mine is AX02DGU". "That is AX02DGV"......... You can probably guess the rest!

 

Right car, correct registration on the documents, wrong numberplates!

 

Turns out "my" numberplates were on a car that had been picked up a few days before which should have gone out with AX02DGV on it.

 

Easily done for a large dealership I suspect if there's a lapse in concentration. In fairness it was sorted out overnight but had I not noticed and driven it off the forecourt..... That said this was in the days pre-ANPR so the chances of being spotted would have been much smaller.

M'yes, but that was a simple case of 2 vehicles having the wrong plates attached.

 

The case being discussed here is more serious - 3 vehicles being sent out with identical number plates - from the same dealership...

 

Mark

[admiles]

1 hour ago, MarkC said:

M'yes, but that was a simple case of 2 vehicles having the wrong plates attached.

 

The case being discussed here is more serious - 3 vehicles being sent out with identical number plates - from the same dealership...

 

Mark

 

Of course it was nowhere as serious but possibly only because of the era it happened (no ANPR cameras in 2002) and the fact I caught the dealers error before taking delivery of the car. If I had who knows what might have happened? The other car involved was merrily driving around on the wrong plates.

 

 

[Nick C]

17 hours ago, admiles said:

 

Of course it was nowhere as serious but possibly only because of the era it happened (no ANPR cameras in 2002) and the fact I caught the dealers error before taking delivery of the car. If I had who knows what might have happened? The other car involved was merrily driving around on the wrong plates.

 

 

My dad had a similar, but less serious, issue just after the rules came in about dealers having to change the plates when they sold a second-hand car - the dealer managed to transpose two of the letters on the new plates...