My car has been cloned

[Kelly]

Everytime I've needed to replace the plates on my car, either via eBay or the garage I use if the plates fail the MoT for some reason (usually cracks, etc) I've never been asked to produce anything like my V5C or other identification. Probably not needed in the case of the garage due to the MoT being done at the time.

 

Nile's experience is a horrible one, proving some virtue perhaps in things like facebook selfies? as they're gps and device tagged even if posted privately.

 

 

[polybear]

 

18 minutes ago, Nile_Griffith said:

Sometimes you just got to take the hit. Doesn't mean I like it or that it doesn't make me angry, but you just have to take it. Hopefully it might make a few forum members more aware and take measures to make sure that their own cars have some element of "personalisation" no matter how small, but enough to be identifiable if the same thing should happen to them.

 

Agreed, sadly.  Trying to prove the court wrong could would get very costly, both in time and monetary value, with no guarantee of success (and I suspect Magistrates and the Police don't take being proved wrong easily). 

[letterspider]

Very annoying for you also due to the extra expense of increased insurance premiums but I wouldn't give up - when they finally get cauight you will have the evidence you need.

Should be able to find that out with a freedom of information request on your number plate - for example maybe a whole pile of unpaid traffic tickets in some part of the country distant from you that you couldn't possibly have visited has been reported to the DVLA or you could get Audi to flag up the number plate on their database and they could check VIN number if it ever turns up in their service bay.  Should be very simple for them.

Once you establish that your number plate is cloned - the onus would have to be on the Magistrate to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were driving instead of the criminal

Don't give up the fight just yet good  luck

 

[kevinlms]

On 30/01/2020 at 08:34, letterspider said:

Very annoying for you also due to the extra expense of increased insurance premiums but I wouldn't give up - when they finally get cauight you will have the evidence you need.

Should be able to find that out with a freedom of information request on your number plate - for example maybe a whole pile of unpaid traffic tickets in some part of the country distant from you that you couldn't possibly have visited has been reported to the DVLA or you could get Audi to flag up the number plate on their database and they could check VIN number if it ever turns up in their service bay.  Should be very simple for them.

Once you establish that your number plate is cloned - the onus would have to be on the Magistrate to prove beyond reasonable doubt that you were driving instead of the criminal

Don't give up the fight just yet good  luck

 

That seems a possibility worth considering, after all the fakers have just as likely still got the cloned plates on their car. Unlikely to know that the OP got done for their driving. So possibly still driving like a***holes, since they think they'll get away with it.

Short of them physically getting stopped for some other driving offence.

[russ p]

It's now over two and half weeks since this happened and I've not heard a thing about it, not even an email acknowledging the online report I filled out, there is also no obvious way of speaking to anyone within that department of Bedford council. 

Also I've not been pulled over once to prove my car is the one that legitimately carries these plates,  Norfolk police told me they had put a mark against my reg on DVLA system 

[Bruce Depot]

Been away from the UK for a while, in Spain its not early to get new plates made. they have to be ordered and you need the paperwork of the car.

Is it still so easy to get copies without questions asked in the UK??

 

cheers

Keith

 

[melmerby]

On 29/01/2020 at 20:54, Kelly said:

Everytime I've needed to replace the plates on my car, either via eBay or the garage I use if the plates fail the MoT for some reason (usually cracks, etc) I've never been asked to produce anything like my V5C or other identification. Probably not needed in the case of the garage due to the MoT being done at the time.

 

 

 

What are you doing to the plates that they need replacing?

Apart from ones damaged in the odd accident, all the plates on my vehicles have lasted as long as I've had them.  (sometimes 10+ years)

 

 

[Jonboy]

mine that needed replacing were both water damage(aka dirty water between numbers and clear acrylic top that may make it hard for a speed camera to read). 
 

I personally found it easier if the garage were fitting themselves, when I bought to self fit I needed to take v5c into shop.

 

As others have said though there are plenty of Seemingly less fussy online vendors, particularly for “non-road legal” plates from the vendors of coloured led running lights, suspension lowering kits, big exhausts etc etc.

[russ p]

New plates can really lift the look of an old car. I replaced the ones on this car as it's an MG ZT these and rover 75 have unique plates on the rear which are quite expensive would be interested to see if the cloned one has these or just the plain rectangular ones

[melmerby]

2 hours ago, Jonboy said:

mine that needed replacing were both water damage(aka dirty water between numbers and clear acrylic top that may make it hard for a speed camera to read). 
 

 

That suggests less than 100% quality of manufacture.

I thought the process used in making them sealed everything in place.

[russ p]

5 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That suggests less than 100% quality of manufacture.

I thought the process used in making them sealed everything in place.

They deteriorate over time sunlight bleachers them and they sometimes warp too

[jcm@gwr]

39 minutes ago, melmerby said:

That suggests less than 100% quality of manufacture.

I thought the process used in making them sealed everything in place.

 

Unless they are fixed with double sided tape (or equivalent), the screw holes are a point of entry for water.

[Kelly]

6 hours ago, melmerby said:

What are you doing to the plates that they need replacing?

Apart from ones damaged in the odd accident, all the plates on my vehicles have lasted as long as I've had them.  (sometimes 10+ years)

 

 

 

Only a few plates, usually for catching them and putting a crack or some reason for the MOT to fail them usually.

[maico]

Strictly speaking a car that has been cloned as had the VIN number changed. The number is visible through the windscreen.

Edited February 1, 2020 by maico

[letterspider]

I thought the VIN is all over the chassis and in the electrics, stamped at manufacture and that any attempt at tampering would only fool the complete novice car buyer?

[johnofwessex]

What I dont understand is why it isnt illegal to own, or offer for sale anything that looks like a car number plate but isn't legal eg 'show' plates metal ones etc........................

[New Haven Neil]

That falls apart for us as our plates use a different font again and have dashes between the letter/number groups - but we still need to get plates made!  eg MAN-123-X  We also have different rules for black plates, our old bikes mostly have them, with three horizontal rows too!  UK manufacturers will make our plates but they needed a scan of the 'V5' - of course ours aren't V5's either but our own version.....we get there in the end usually.  Life in a Crown Dependency!

[SM42]

The problem with adding stickers or  non standard wheels (note the insurance ramifications of this modification) is that these can be easily undone too.  I have non standard wheels on at the mo (yes I have declared them to the insurance) but come the Spring when I put my summer tyres back on the car will be standard again.

 

A suspicious person would say that a cloned car is your car, but you've made a temporary alteration to avoid justice. Dents are usually good though as they either get repaired or don't exist in identical pairs.

 

Howeever I do think the mobile phone location would be a good angle. Especially if you used it . After all how far would they delve in reality? Conjecture about complex Hollywood style  ruses to risk prison time for the sake of a relatively minor punishment seem a bit far fetched.  Those caught doing such things try much simpler plans. Easier to set up and remember the story for everyone involved.

 

For reference too, no-one is entitled to see "evidence" until they elect to go to court, by which time it is too late. What you can do however is ask for copies of any photographs to assist in identifying the driver. This is not asking for evidence (don't even use the word) but making reasonable efforts to identify who was driving at the time of the offence as you will be asked to do so by the police if you are the registered keeper. 

 

They probably won't help with the driver's ID, but will give you chance to check the car in the photo. The police etc are human. Mistakes happen sometimes.

 

In terms of the council in the OP's case, they have 56 days to respond I believe.  They also need to consider your appeal properly, not use some template brush off.

 

Keep track of the dates, keep on top of this  and don't let this slip further down the line of enforcement if you can help it. Keep records of all correspondence, proof of postage, dates etc

 

See www.pepipoo.com for more  forums / advice on such matters.

 

Good luck

 

Andy

 

 

[russ p]

Well finally got a response,  they are going to withdraw it on this occasion! 

Seemed to have a tone that I'd use this again. 

No mention of trying to find the @rsehole that is running round with my registration on his car

[Ohmisterporter]

On 29/01/2020 at 19:23, polybear said:

Mate of mine got a summons for jumping a red light - he was adamant he didn't, so asked for a copy of the photo.  Was told that it was on hard drives and in order to get it he would have to (a) initially plead guilty by post, and then (b)  apply for a copy of the photo.  If he was correct the fine and points would be overturned.  (We advised him that this sounded like complete bo11ox, but he wouldn't listen....)

Guess what?  After pleading guilty he was then told that he couldn't have a copy of the photo cos' he'd pleaded guilty to the offence.  Totally shafted.

 

Was your mate told this over the phone or does he have it in writing? If in writing I think he could have a chance of proving entrapment; or does that not apply in the UK? I have perhaps been watching too many US cops and lawyers series. 

[polybear]

25 minutes ago, Ohmisterporter said:

 

Was your mate told this over the phone or does he have it in writing? If in writing I think he could have a chance of proving entrapment; or does that not apply in the UK? I have perhaps been watching too many US cops and lawyers series. 

 

Over the phone, unfortunately....

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, polybear said:

 

Over the phone, unfortunately....

 

I would have written in making an official complaint about the advice given 

[Guest Half-full]

I bought a brand new car last year, happily driving along the road a few months later I was stopped by the police, who told me that my registration plates belonged to a different car from the same manufacturer.  They impounded my car and I was taken to the police station and cautioned.  I went home, car-less and returned to the police station the next day with all the paper work from the garage I bought the car from, stating all the details of my car, plus the registration document from DVLA.

 

The police contacted the garage who initially denied all knowledge but eventually admitted they had used the same registration not only on my car, the other car they were 'registered' too, but also a third car!!!!

 

I had to arrange for the garage to re-register my car on different plates, arrange for the insurance to get updated (which I was charged for) then wait for the new V5 to come from DVLA before the police would release my car, which took almost 2 weeks and which I had to pay almost £400 for. 

 

So far the garage has offered me a free valet at my first service, but has invoiced me for the registration fee, new road tax and new plates! 

 

I'm taking this further.

 

 

[MarkC]

8 hours ago, Half-full said:

I bought a brand new car last year, happily driving along the road a few months later I was stopped by the police, who told me that my registration plates belonged to a different car from the same manufacturer.  They impounded my car and I was taken to the police station and cautioned.  I went home, car-less and returned to the police station the next day with all the paper work from the garage I bought the car from, stating all the details of my car, plus the registration document from DVLA.

 

The police contacted the garage who initially denied all knowledge but eventually admitted they had used the same registration not only on my car, the other car they were 'registered' too, but also a third car!!!!

 

I had to arrange for the garage to re-register my car on different plates, arrange for the insurance to get updated (which I was charged for) then wait for the new V5 to come from DVLA before the police would release my car, which took almost 2 weeks and which I had to pay almost £400 for. 

 

So far the garage has offered me a free valet at my first service, but has invoiced me for the registration fee, new road tax and new plates! 

 

I'm taking this further.

 

 

Unbelievable - or perhaps not, in this age of increasing numbers of conmen, chancers and charlatans

 

My first thought is that if the garage don't reimburse you completely for your costs and your time of their own volition, then this is surely a win for you at a small claims court?

 

I'm sure that the local press would also be interested, as would Trading Standards? The services of your local MP could also be called upon.

 

Good luck.

 

Mark

[Guest Half-full]

2 hours ago, MarkC said:

Unbelievable - or perhaps not, in this age of increasing numbers of conmen, chancers and charlatans

 

My first thought is that if the garage don't reimburse you completely for your costs and your time of their own volition, then this is surely a win for you at a small claims court?

 

I'm sure that the local press would also be interested, as would Trading Standards? The services of your local MP could also be called upon.

 

Good luck.

 

Mark

Thanks Mark

 

The police told me that its not particularly uncommon, the DVLA being the weakest link - which I can believe, when I called the DVLA about it the person I spoke almost seemed surprised that they dealt with motoring related items, a complete thicko!!!

 

I did contact the local press who declined my story as the garage (a major chain) is one of the their main advertisers.  Trading standards not interested and the Motor Trade Ombudsman not interested.  Both said take it up with the Police!  And my local MP, if you're not a vegan tubthumper, she isn't interested!

 

I did instruct a lawyer though who is handling the case for me.  So far its been about 3 months and is heading to the small courts.  I've paid nothing to the garage, who have threatened me with debt collectors!

 

I've since found out through online forums that this chain of garages make regular mistakes with registrations, from whats happened to me to making up plates with the letters in the wrong order., sheer incompetence of staff

 

 

Edited February 9, 2020 by Half-full