Tyteford Halte

[Neal Ball]

That 14xx chassis kit should be a nice build to do. Those instructions / diagram looks very comprehensive. 
 

Good luck and enjoy the build.

 

Plus the Railway room is looking very organised.

[MAP66]

56 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

That 14xx chassis kit should be a nice build to do. Those instructions / diagram looks very comprehensive. 
 

Good luck and enjoy the build.

 

Plus the Railway room is looking very organised.

Thanks Neal, much appreciated.

I've been looking forward to the day when I could tackle this build, lets hope I don't stuff it up after all that 😄

 

[Neal Ball]

2 minutes ago, MAP66 said:

Thanks Neal, much appreciated.

I've been looking forward to the day when I could tackle this build, lets hope I don't stuff it up after all that 😄

 

If it’s anything like the SE Finecast Metro tank, it should be straightforward.

 

I see you’ve got the Poppys chassis jig…. I also have one, but found it didn’t make life easy!

 

Getting the chassis 100% square is obviously the key, so resorted to screw in spacers - worked much better!

 

Good luck.

[MAP66]

2 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

If it’s anything like the SE Finecast Metro tank, it should be straightforward.

 

I see you’ve got the Poppys chassis jig…. I also have one, but found it didn’t make life easy!

 

Getting the chassis 100% square is obviously the key, so resorted to screw in spacers - worked much better!

 

Good luck.

Thanks for the tip on the jig. That's the part I'm most concerned about as this will be a P4 build and so getting it to run true is critical. And just to make life easier for meself, I'm going for the compensated chassis option as opposed to the more straight forward rigid chassis. Out of interest, did you still use the Poppys jig with the screw in spacers, or was this part of another jig?

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, MAP66 said:

Thanks for the tip on the jig. That's the part I'm most concerned about as this will be a P4 build and so getting it to run true is critical. And just to make life easier for meself, I'm going for the compensated chassis option as opposed to the more straight forward rigid chassis. Out of interest, did you still use the Poppys jig with the screw in spacers, or was this part of another jig?

It was a combination of both! 
 

But I was struggling to keep the second pin on the jig 100% true - which is when Andy in our Metro build thread, said he had abandoned it!

 

You can get the first axle in line, but then I found the second axle was wobbling around all over the place! It then became a case of using the screw in spacer which I got from Comet / Wizard. I can’t remember if the chassis also came with some - I think they did.

 

If you want to PM me during the build, I’ll be more than happy to offer guidance - although @Andy Keane has just done his second loco building course at Missenden so might be a better bet 😎

 

I have no experience of P4 or Compensated chassis…. 🙁
 

This is the thread we started during our various builds: 

 

Edited November 6, 2023 by Neal Ball
Link added

[Andy Keane]

Happy to help if I can - I have a clock builders jig that I now use to true up my chassis builds which is very rigid and accurate. I think the poppy's jig is not much use at all for accurate work.  But I think if you are going compensated the accuracy is probably less critical as you have to allow some play to allow for the effect the conn rods have when one axle moves and the other does not. Tony Gee says the real test is will the chassis roll down an incline with all wheels turning and the rods going over when the motor drive is removed. Its a stern test but once achieved the result is a very smoothly running loco.

regards

Andy

[MAP66]

40 minutes ago, Andy Keane said:

Happy to help if I can - I have a clock builders jig that I now use to true up my chassis builds which is very rigid and accurate. I think the poppy's jig is not much use at all for accurate work.  But I think if you are going compensated the accuracy is probably less critical as you have to allow some play to allow for the effect the conn rods have when one axle moves and the other does not. Tony Gee says the real test is will the chassis roll down an incline with all wheels turning and the rods going over when the motor drive is removed. Its a stern test but once achieved the result is a very smoothly running loco.

regards

Andy

Thanks Andy, the comment about the side play is very  timely and useful as the kit mentions two types of frame spacers for P4. So I can now use the one which provides 1mm of play (0.5mm each side). When  If I get to a rolling chassis, I will try the incline test 🙂 but if it grinds to a unceremonious halt, I will keep quiet about it.

7 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

It was a combination of both! 
 

But I was struggling to keep the second pin on the jig 100% true - which is when Andy in our Metro build thread, said he had abandoned it!

 

You can get the first axle in line, but then I found the second axle was wobbling around all over the place! It then became a case of using the screw in spacer which I got from Comet / Wizard. I can’t remember if the chassis also came with some - I think they did.

 

If you want to PM me during the build, I’ll be more than happy to offer guidance - although @Andy Keane has just done his second loco building course at Missenden so might be a better bet 😎

 

I have no experience of P4 or Compensated chassis…. 🙁
 

This is the thread we started during our various builds: 

 

Thanks again Neal, sorry about the delay in responding. For the past few hours I have been searching through the remainder of my railway bits and pieces as I'm sure I had another chassis jig from Comet. Finally came across it sitting in my tray on the new bench! So my theory about now being able to find stuff more efficiently has immediately failed. Let's hope the chassis build doesn't suffer the same fate 🤪

[Neal Ball]

25 minutes ago, MAP66 said:

Thanks Andy, the comment about the side play is very  timely and useful as the kit mentions two types of frame spacers for P4. So I can now use the one which provides 1mm of play (0.5mm each side). When  If I get to a rolling chassis, I will try the incline test 🙂 but if it grinds to a unceremonious halt, I will keep quiet about it.

Thanks again Neal, sorry about the delay in responding. For the past few hours I have been searching through the remainder of my railway bits and pieces as I'm sure I had another chassis jig from Comet. Finally came across it sitting in my tray on the new bench! So my theory about now being able to find stuff more efficiently has immediately failed. Let's hope the chassis build doesn't suffer the same fate 🤪

 

Good luck with finding "stuff". That is always my issue when I tidy up!

 

The incline test, really tried my patience with the Metro tank and I am sure I will be reliving that again when I build the County tank!

 

Of course, it's two incline tests.... The first just to get the wheels moving, then you need to do it again with the connecting rods attached as well. At first it all works ok, then you need to  increase the incline and you will find the wheels lock up - more gentle fettling soon see's it right.

[MAP66]

13 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Good luck with finding "stuff". That is always my issue when I tidy up!

 

The incline test, really tried my patience with the Metro tank and I am sure I will be reliving that again when I build the County tank!

 

Of course, it's two incline tests.... The first just to get the wheels moving, then you need to do it again with the connecting rods attached as well. At first it all works ok, then you need to  increase the incline and you will find the wheels lock up - more gentle fettling soon see's it right.

My word, 2 incline tests! I didn't even know about the first one and now there are 2. Would it be against the rules that even after much fettling with no success, that I then raise the incline to 90 degrees to the horizontal in order to get the chassis moving, gravity assisted (but with wheels still seized?) 🤣

 

Forgot to mention earlier, but thanks again Neal for providing the link to the small metro builds thread, I'm going to gradually work my way through all the content, picking up all the juicy tips along the way. Me being ever the pessimist (refer to first para above) with occasional optimism, would it be OK to share any achievements I make with this build on the Metro thread?

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, MAP66 said:

My word, 2 incline tests! I didn't even know about the first one and now there are 2. Would it be against the rules that even after much fettling with no success, that I then raise the incline to 90 degrees to the horizontal in order to get the chassis moving, gravity assisted (but with wheels still seized?) 🤣

 

Forgot to mention earlier, but thanks again Neal for providing the link to the small metro builds thread, I'm going to gradually work my way through all the content, picking up all the juicy tips along the way. Me being ever the pessimist (refer to first para above) with occasional optimism, would it be OK to share any achievements I make with this build on the Metro thread?

 

1. Probably not a good idea to try a 90 degree incline 🤣 

2. Yes of course include it in the Metro thread, the beauty of adding it there is the combined knowledge. 

 

Unless anyone else is building a 14xx / 48xx at the same time, in which case combine it in a new thread together. It was rewarding doing the Metro at the time as a group of other builders as it was almost a case of sharing information across the workbench.

[MAP66]

Exciting times, herewith and without further ado, I present for your entertainment the actual start of the chassis build. Strap in, it’s going to be a bumpy ride as I intend to give a blow by blow account of the build, warts an all. This documented approach should serve as a good reference for me, as I’ve never built a chassis kit before and hopefully it will also serve as some use to others as well.

 

There’s a lot to get through, no less than 8 A4 page sides of written instructions with about 4 pages of very detailed diagrams. Plus, and this is very useful, there is a drawing of the main parts fret with all parts numbered with an accompanying numbered parts list.

 

Being new to this, I have decided to follow all instructions to the letter and in the same order as written. Let’s begin…

With the main parts fret laid out perfectly flat on a hard surface, using a sturdy craft knife, I removed the main frames (parts 1 &2) from the fret and went about removing any cusps on the edges with a file. Having done this, and referring to fig1, I carefully punched out the rivets onto the main frames using the indentations on the reverse side of the frames as a guide. I accumulated a number of specialist tools a few years back in anticipation for moments like this and it was very satisfying to use the Rivet Press from GW Tools for the first time. It did what it was meant to do and I now have some nice rivet detail, see image below…

 

 

The next stage was to release the axle spring backing pieces from the fret (part 3 x 4 sets). They are each folded in half along the etch line to make them thicker and then soldered. I tinned the inside faces before folding and then once folded, I sweated them together. See image below…

 

 

You are then required to solder the 4 springs in place on the chassis. Which, as you can see from the above image, will be the next step.

 

So, that’s it for the first instalment. I will try and update every few days or at least one weekly update. Next post, I will be attempting to assemble the side frames together, which involves several frame spacers and more soldering, could be fun – let’s hope so? 🙂

[Keith Addenbrooke]

Hi Mark, you’re a much braver man than I am, but I look forwards to learning from your build.  Thanks for sharing, and well done for getting started - often the hardest step!  Keith.

[MAP66]

3 minutes ago, Keith Addenbrooke said:

Hi Mark, you’re a much braver man than I am, but I look forwards to learning from your build.  Thanks for sharing, and well done for getting started - often the hardest step!  Keith.

Thanks Keith,

yes, I've been putting this off for over 3 years now, with the house move and now having a dedicated room for railways, I finally had no more excuses to delay.

So far so good, but then again I have only got through 2 paragraphs of instructions 🤣 Long way to go yet and it will soon get very, very heavy (Hornblocks) and all sorts to get my head around HO, HO, HO soon be Christmas.

[Neal Ball]

3 hours ago, MAP66 said:

Thanks Keith,

yes, I've been putting this off for over 3 years now, with the house move and now having a dedicated room for railways, I finally had no more excuses to delay.

So far so good, but then again I have only got through 2 paragraphs of instructions 🤣 Long way to go yet and it will soon get very, very heavy (Hornblocks) and all sorts to get my head around HO, HO, HO soon be Christmas.

It’s going to be great, looking forward to watching this develop.

 

Meanwhile, my thoughts are turning to not just the next project - but the one for the end of 2024 😎

 

No pressure!

[MAP66]

10 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

It’s going to be great, looking forward to watching this develop.

 

Meanwhile, my thoughts are turning to not just the next project - but the one for the end of 2024 😎

 

No pressure!

Thanks Neal,

I hope you enjoy the build, have you tried a High Level kit before?

I'm intrigued about your projects, tell more please. 

[Neal Ball]

33 minutes ago, MAP66 said:

Thanks Neal,

I hope you enjoy the build, have you tried a High Level kit before?

I'm intrigued about your projects, tell more please. 

Firstly I need to finish off the 2 x 70ft carriages and the cut n shut Hornby Clerestory 3rd.

 

Then I’ve bought a County tank 4-4-2T which will use a SE Finecast etched chassis (High level gear box 60:1)

 

Birthday / Christmas Im hoping for a 70ft Brake 3rd and various Sunshine carriage kits / sides.

 

Then for later in 2024 I’ve just ordered a H26 70ft Restaurant carriage (Comet) and from Worsley works the earlier sides (before the windows were refurbished) and a C22 3rd Clerestory. As I understand it, the latter will be an etch for the sides, ends and roof. I will then need to add bogies and underframe details.

 

That should keep me busy next year!

[MAP66]

9 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Firstly I need to finish off the 2 x 70ft carriages and the cut n shut Hornby Clerestory 3rd.

 

Then I’ve bought a County tank 4-4-2T which will use a SE Finecast etched chassis (High level gear box 60:1)

 

Birthday / Christmas Im hoping for a 70ft Brake 3rd and various Sunshine carriage kits / sides.

 

Then for later in 2024 I’ve just ordered a H26 70ft Restaurant carriage (Comet) and from Worsley works the earlier sides (before the windows were refurbished) and a C22 3rd Clerestory. As I understand it, the latter will be an etch for the sides, ends and roof. I will then need to add bogies and underframe details.

 

That should keep me busy next year!

Blimey, your going to be kept busy next year. At my pace, that lot would take me a lifetime to get through 😄 look how long it's taken me to do one autocoach and that's still not entirely finished. I'm a bit more organised in the workshop area now, so maybe I can get a bit of a spurt on. I would dearly love to get this chassis built and running and then move onto the body shell and finally get the completed 14XX coupled up to the coach and plonked onto Tyteford Halte. That would be a good day 😁

[Neal Ball]

3 minutes ago, MAP66 said:

Blimey, your going to be kept busy next year. At my pace, that lot would take me a lifetime to get through 😄 look how long it's taken me to do one autocoach and that's still not entirely finished. I'm a bit more organised in the workshop area now, so maybe I can get a bit of a spurt on. I would dearly love to get this chassis built and running and then move onto the body shell and finally get the completed 14XX coupled up to the coach and plonked onto Tyteford Halte. That would be a good day 😁

My soldering skills have improved significantly since I’ve been doing all these carriages. 
 

The key with the loco chassis will be to take your time.

[MAP66]

3 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

The key with the loco chassis will be to take your time.

I'm OK with that, I only have one gear and that's slow 🤣

[MAP66]

I couldn’t wait any longer, being dissatisfied that it still did not resemble a chassis but instead two pieces of flat metal, I swiftly moved on to the final task required before I could assemble the chassis.

 

As I was making a compensated chassis, you are required to make the hornblock cutaways which is a task undertaken much more easily with the main frames not assembled. My weapon of choice was a fine fret saw to cut down the centreline of each cutaway and then to bend the tabs back and forth until they snapped off. I then dressed off the edges with a file. Below is the image of the side frames I posted yesterday where you can see the work in progress. The top frame has one hornblock cutaway with the other showing the centre cut line in progress

. The lower frame is yet untouched and shows how it would look if you were fitting a rigid chassis.

 

 

So now it's just a case of finishing off the cutaways and then soldering the springs in place. Then it will be chassis assembly time.

[longchap]

Hello Mark,

 

I’ve enjoyed your extensive and inspiring autocoach upgrade very much, as I have a couple examples in the never ending queue and I’m sure your inspiration will also extend to Dapol’s 2024 release.

 

Also good to see the commencement of your 14xx / 48xx conversion and I’m sure that the High Level Kits chassis will transform the old Airfix/Hornby clunker. I’m just picking up my well advanced Small  Metro kit build (no modelling here in the hot summer months), which was included my first etched chassis build, including a High Level gearbox. I’m very impressed with HL’s instructions, although I did need to read through them several times to make sense of where all the detailed descriptive information fitted into the illustrated diagrams. Once understood, everything fitted together faultlessly and the completed gearbox ran sweetly right away and with almost silent running. An excellent product.

 

I also have the Poppy’s jig, which worked well for me in helping get the frames finally soldered up squarely, having first started by soldering the front and rear spaces to one side of each frame, although you need to work out ingenious ways to support the frame spacers and other small parts when soldering. The use of timber offcuts can provide great assistance here and after also attending the Missenden Abbey chassis building course early this year, I now keep a couple of wooden blocks in my loco building toolbox.

 

As well as GW Models superb rivet press, I also find their wheel pullers and wheel press / quartering jig useful.

 

Enjoy the build and don’t rush headlong into it until you think you understand most of the process. When I found I didn’t, the advice from Missenden and on here (including the Small Metro build thread) was invaluable.

 

Looking forward to your further progress.

 

Bon courage,

 

Bill     

Edited November 11, 2023 by longchap

[MAP66]

Thanks Bill,

That's all very much appreciated, it is very much slow and steady wins the race. For me it's a case of reading the instructions for every step several times over before plunging in. If I am confused over something, I take a break and think about it and only return when I have an idea of how to do the task in hand.

 

1 hour ago, longchap said:

you need to work out ingenious ways to support the frame spacers and other small parts when soldering

Funny you mentioned this as its absolutely true. I found myself doing something out of the ordinary with a wooden clothes peg. I hasten to add that I was still fully clothed and the chassis build benefited from the experience 😄

 

When it comes to the more complex stages of the build, I will undoubtedly be flummoxed and will need some advice on how best to tackle such things. Its very re-assuring to know that help is out there when needed. 

[longchap]

May be interesting to follow the continuation on from the link below over at the Torre Station thread, as it's also a HL chassis, except the build is to P4:

 

 

Edited November 11, 2023 by longchap

[longchap]

I have a Perseverance chassis for a 14xx and always intended to put it under one of my Airfix models, yet inspiration can be a fickle companion, as due to thse two threads with a 14xx chassis build, plus my high regard for HL products, I'm minded to order a HL chassis with  my next gearbox order.

 

I really must do more work on the kits stash !

 

 

 

 

[MAP66]

26 minutes ago, longchap said:

I have a Perseverance chassis for a 14xx and always intended to put it under one of my Airfix models, yet inspiration can be a fickle companion, as due to thse two threads with a 14xx chassis build, plus my high regard for HL products, I'm minded to order a HL chassis with  my next gearbox order.

 

I really must do more work on the kits stash !

 

 

 

 

I would very much encourage you to buy the HL chassis kit based on your own experience, I wouldn't base it on any inspiration from me as half the time I haven't got a clue what I'm doing 🤣 and the other half is pure luck. Seriously though, that sounds like a good shout, maybe a bunch of us will end up building the chassis?

Thanks for the heads up re. the Torre Station thread, I was surprised that there was another 14XX build on the go and even more surprised to see that I was at the same stage of the chassis build as @MPR except I assembled the main frames in a slightly different manner. I also struggled with it and needed to de-solder the end spacer. I'll post more on that next update.