Corona-virus - Impact of the Health Situation worldwide

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

That would be a lot more effective if they'd kept quiet about it. Anyone who wants to sneak out can just leave their mobile at home and nobody will be any the wiser.

 

Beats me why anyone would want to carry around something capable of tracking them in the first place. Remember when that was regarded as something to be put on criminals, not something most people wanted?

[Reorte]

14 minutes ago, melmerby said:

Polio & Flu are not Corona viruses, they aren't even in the same virus family

It's like claiming a fish is another form of a sheep.

 

Polio

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poliovirus

 

Coronavirus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coronavirus

 

Flu virus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthomyxoviridae

 

Some colds are caused by coronaviruses, although that may still be about as useful as pointing out that goldfish and great white sharks are both fish (or it may not be, TBH I don't know how equivalent a comparison that is).

[jjb1970]

4 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Beats me why anyone would want to carry around something capable of tracking them in the first place. Remember when that was regarded as something to be put on criminals, not something most people wanted?

 

What amazes me is governments and many people are obsessed with the menace of tech companies monitoring us while happily giving government agencies all sorts of snooping powers, 

[Gibbo675]

3 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Beats me why anyone would want to carry around something capable of tracking them in the first place. Remember when that was regarded as something to be put on criminals, not something most people wanted?

Worse still that by buying one you end up paying for your own surveillance and enslavement.

 

Look up the quotes of Lord Stamp of Shortlands on such matters !

 

Gibbo.

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

 

Beats me why anyone would want to carry around something capable of tracking them in the first place. Remember when that was regarded as something to be put on criminals, not something most people wanted?

That's just normal healthy paranoia, everybody has that. I'm just incredulous that anybody would be so fascinated by my activities to monitor my movements, but they'll find sod-all of consequence if they do. Just as likely to provide an alibi as drop one in the cart... 

 

When voice recorders went in on signal box phones, quite a few moaned about "invasion of privacy" until one of our number was able to refute a manager's attempt to wrongly place the blame for an incident upon him. The recordings proved the signaller had done everything correctly.

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

10 minutes ago, Gibbo675 said:

Worse still that by buying one you end up paying for your own surveillance and enslavement.

 

Look up the quotes of Lord Stamp of Shortlands on such matters !

 

Gibbo.

If you are that bothered, it's not difficult to acquire an untraceable pay-as-you go.

 

John

[boxbrownie]

18 minutes ago, Reorte said:

 

Beats me why anyone would want to carry around something capable of tracking them in the first place. Remember when that was regarded as something to be put on criminals, not something most people wanted?

Saved quite a few lives of walkers/hikers/orienteers/climbers etc when incapacitated and unable to use the phone.

 

Swings and Roundabouts.

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

That's just normal healthy paranoia, everybody has that. I'm just incredulous that anybody would be so fascinated by my activities to monitor my movements, but they'll find sod-all of consequence if they do. Just as likely to provide an alibi as drop one in the cart... 

 

When voice recorders went in on signal box phones, quite a few moaned about "invasion of privacy" until one of our number was able to refute a manager's attempt to wrongly place the blame for an incident upon him. The recordings proved the signaller had done everything correctly.

 

Just because something sometimes provides a benefit sometimes doesn't mean I'll welcome it. If my job started recording every little thing I did I'd soon be looking for another job (not because I'd be forced to), not because I'm worried about them finding out anything they shouldn't, or misusing that, but simply because I find it a deeply unpleasant environment to be in.

[Reorte]

3 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

Saved quite a few lives of walkers/hikers/orienteers/climbers etc when incapacitated and unable to use the phone.

 

Swings and Roundabouts.

The only activity I've taken place in regularly where I'd have felt happier with that is mine exploration, and they don't work very well underground anyway.

[Gibbo675]

5 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

If you are that bothered, it's not difficult to acquire an untraceable pay-as-you go.

 

John

Hi John,

 

The stating of a philosophical point does not at all reveal my feelings about the subject one way or another.

 

Gibbo.

[boxbrownie]

6 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

That's just normal healthy paranoia, everybody has that. I'm just incredulous that anybody would be so fascinated by my activities to monitor my movements, but they'll find sod-all of consequence if they do. Just as likely to provide an alibi as drop one in the cart... 

 

When voice recorders went in on signal box phones, quite a few moaned about "invasion of privacy" until one of our number was able to refute a manager's attempt to wrongly place the blame for an incident upon him. The recordings proved the signaller had done everything correctly.

 

John

 

[boxbrownie]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

The only activity I've taken place in regularly where I'd have felt happier with that is mine exploration, and they don't work very well underground anyway.

Use a bit of string instead 

[Dunsignalling]

1 minute ago, Reorte said:

 

Just because something sometimes provides a benefit sometimes doesn't mean I'll welcome it. If my job started recording every little thing I did I'd soon be looking for another job (not because I'd be forced to), not because I'm worried about them finding out anything they shouldn't, or misusing that, but simply because I find it a deeply unpleasant environment to be in.

I think most of us who were in safety critical posts came to recognise that voice recording both imposed discipline on ones actions and provided increased protection to the individual in an industry with a history of passing any blame as far down the chain of command as possible.  

 

No different than the black box in the airline trade, but if your profession has no demonstrable need for it, fair enough.

 

John 

[Gwiwer]

2 hours ago, Torper said:

Schools in Scotland and Wales are to close on Friday, possibly until September.  England is expected to follow suit.  So we'll have loads of kids with nothing to do and nowhere to go, bored out of their minds for five or six months.

 

Madness.

 

DT

 

And therein lies a huge latent risk to social distancing, order and behaviour.  What is worse than kids on the street?  Bored kids, because their "life" has been close down,  on the street for months at a time.  I have argued before that collateral damage (not just to the economy but to society as a whole) needs to be set against the anticipated spread of a virus.  All viruses spread; the best we can hope for is to modify the rate of spreading.  But to have - especially the inner cities - with large numbers of bored kids roaming around (because nothing an no-one is going to successfully keep them inside for weeks at a time) is asking for widespread troubles.

 

I am well aware that some schools have felt unable to stay open as staff self-isolate.  That too is a balancing act.  My sister and several friends teach.  One is a supply teacher and currently cannot work enough hours keeping up with demand from schools and for private tutoring.  

 

Given the current length of self-isolation advice we should perhaps be aiming at a return after an extended Easter break.  Otherwise we also risk compromising the education of our future generations.

[Reorte]

Come to think of it I doubt being an actor would suit my either, with that criteria

[Dunsignalling]

4 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

And therein lies a huge latent risk to social distancing, order and behaviour.  What is worse than kids on the street?  Bored kids, because their "life" has been close down,  on the street for months at a time.  I have argued before that collateral damage (not just to the economy but to society as a whole) needs to be set against the anticipated spread of a virus.  All viruses spread; the best we can hope for is to modify the rate of spreading.  But to have - especially the inner cities - with large numbers of bored kids roaming around (because nothing an no-one is going to successfully keep them inside for weeks at a time) is asking for widespread troubles.

 

I am well aware that some schools have felt unable to stay open as staff self-isolate.  That too is a balancing act.  My sister and several friends teach.  One is a supply teacher and currently cannot work enough hours keeping up with demand from schools and for private tutoring.  

 

Given the current length of self-isolation advice we should perhaps be aiming at a return after an extended Easter break.  Otherwise we also risk compromising the education of our future generations.

Just bung a year on the school-leaving age and start this one again once the crisis is over....

 

Governments are tearing up the rule book on everything else, after all.

 

John

Edited March 18, 2020 by Dunsignalling

[Allegheny1600]

11 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

 

Given the current length of self-isolation advice we should perhaps be aiming at a return after an extended Easter break.  Otherwise we also risk compromising the education of our future generations.

Are you serious?

Do you believe this will be over by Easter?

I really wish I had your optimism!

[Gwiwer]

7 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Are you serious?

Do you believe this will be over by Easter?

I really wish I had your optimism!

Given the advice is to self-isolate for 7 or 14 days in most cases ..... 

[Gwiwer]

14 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

Governments are tearing up the rule book

And their chickens will come home to roost over time.  There is only so much rule-book tearing any society can accommodate.  

[John Tomlinson]

31 minutes ago, Dunsignalling said:

If you are that bothered, it's not difficult to acquire an untraceable pay-as-you go.

 

John

I've wondered about this.

 

I have a mobile 'phone that is just that, a 'phone on which to speak to someone and could also do texts - except I don't know how to. No internet capacity or GPS as far as I can see, and I top up once every 12 -18 months as I only use it for emergencies and very short conversations. It would be traceable to me via O2 who I bought it from via the number, but presumably that's all?

 

Can you actually buy a 'phone anonymously, or is that just something in the movies, and if so how do you do the top ups?

 

I realise this is off topic, just interested.

 

John.

[jonny777]

16 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Are you serious?

Do you believe this will be over by Easter?

I really wish I had your optimism!

 

My daughter had a suggestion from the school where her kids go, that they would be re-opening in September. 

 

 

[John Tomlinson]

14 minutes ago, Allegheny1600 said:

Are you serious?

Do you believe this will be over by Easter?

I really wish I had your optimism!

It does sound a bit optimistic, I would agree.

 

However, Vallance yesterday said he anticipated a peak of new infections in 2-3 weeks, which I make as the first week in April. If that's right people would still be being found to be ill after that, but at a declining rate. What we then need, as was discussed earlier on here, is some means of people knowing if they are in the clear or not, given that only a small number are actually going to get a medical test. It looks like that will probably rest on self diagnosis as there's no way at all the testing can be ramped up to cover the whole population in the timeframe.

 

Andy Hayter linked the WHO advice on symptom analysis on page 57 if anyone wants to refer.

 

John.

[Allegheny1600]

17 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Given the advice is to self-isolate for 7 or 14 days in most cases ..... 

That's a head in the sand attitude, I'm afraid.

This virus has already been around since December, AFAIK, they're still dealing with it in Wuhan, China so what makes you think it will disappear here before Easter?

 

[Reorte]

23 minutes ago, Gwiwer said:

Given the advice is to self-isolate for 7 or 14 days in most cases ..... 

 

By the time you realise it's time for that you've probably already spread it to several people. It's already been more than that since people with connections to known cases were asked to isolate but the numbers are still increasing. If it was possible to identify everyone with the virus right now and isolate them it could all be over fairly quickly but unfortunately that isn't possible. I imagine people are working on trying to come up with a mass-produced test that can be easily administered without expert involvement, but whether it'll be any faster to invent that than a vaccine, I wish I knew.

 

Of course if you plan for a long term and we're very lucky and it all dies down much faster than expected that'll be great, but in this situation better to have some plans for the long haul that you can drop at any time should they no longer be necessary.

 

The only fast way out is just to give up and accept the consequences, which isn't really an acceptable option.

Edited March 18, 2020 by Reorte

[Bernard Lamb]

5 minutes ago, jonny777 said:

 

My daughter had a suggestion from the school where her kids go, that they would be re-opening in September. 

 

 

From what I have heard from my daughter a London based primary school teacher and my sister, a Scottish based college lecturer that would seem to be a reasonable assumption. The aim was to get through to Easter and then close but events have overtaken the aim.

Bernard