HS2

[APOLLO]

I wonder what they will put in the sarcophagus to be buried in a secret vault in the Chiltern tunnel !!!!

 

Brit15

[Peter Eaton]

17 hours ago, Edwin_m said:

I saw a TV programme recently (probably a repeat from some years ago where they interviewed a geologist who was called out to one such leak.  She tasted it and was able to reassure the workforce that it was a fresh water spring and not an inundation of the sea.  

An obvious ''massive Blunder'' cover up  ???!!!

[jamie92208]

Sushilla and Caroline have both updated their progress at last. They have now both passed the 1km mark so are progressing well. 

 

Jamie

[martin_wynne]

18 hours ago, Bob83a said:

It appears that there have so far been 3 occupancies of froth coming to the surface in the Ruislip area.

 

And several more in the RMweb area.

 

[jamie92208]

Having posted above about tunnelling progress I now discover that Florence and Cecilia have been updated today.  They are both past the 10km mark and over 63% complete and doing over 25m per day each. However when I entered the figures for Sushila and Caroline they are not doing well, no doubt due to the problems alluded to above.  Sushila has only advance 2m in 32 days and Caroline has now caught her up at 1,034m.   I suspect that as these are the first machines to go under a heavily built up area at a relatively shallow depth that there and many teething troubles.  Anyway here is the latest graph.

Jamie

[Foulounoux]

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/hs2-confirms-that-work-on-the-euston-tunnel-is-to-be-paused-18-04-2023/

 

Link in my feed this morning

I couldn't see it elsewhere 

If already discussed let me know and I will remove 

 

Colin 

[Mark Saunders]

In the finest British tradition kick the can down the road and then blame everyone else for the mess!

[Pete the Elaner]

39 minutes ago, Foulounoux said:

https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/hs2-confirms-that-work-on-the-euston-tunnel-is-to-be-paused-18-04-2023/

 

Link in my feed this morning

I couldn't see it elsewhere 

If already discussed let me know and I will remove 

 

Colin 

 

The report states the Euston station project was put on hold last month.

This is not entirely accurate. It may have been cut back but when I went into Euston earlier this month, there was plenty of plant machinery visible. If the project had been put on hold, these would have been off-hired & collected ASAP, yet they were still there.

[The Stationmaster]

On 17/04/2023 at 14:05, Northmoor said:

From my days working on MoD projects, we used to see project teams reluctant to commit to any sort of expenditure (even relatively low value consultancy contracts like ours) as elections approached; a sort of "paralysis by purdah".  I wonder if HS2 is seeing politicians circling like vultures and fearing the project is going to be scrapped, not committing to anything until after the next General Election (which could be as late as January 2025)?  Not that this explains a lack of boots on the ground; presumably there isn't a similar lack of project managers in HS2 right now?

You might have a good point there although not quite in the  way you suggest.  There will be a large number of local elections taking place in a few weeks time.  So it might well be that with its overall project 'slowdown' announcement plus lack of pace at various work sites the Govt is hoping to keep the subject of HS2 'buried' for a few weeks?

[corneliuslundie]

And if they do postpone work on the London tunnels for two years after having awarded the contract how much will the contractor expect in recompense?

Jonathan

[jamie92208]

2 hours ago, corneliuslundie said:

And if they do postpone work on the London tunnels for two years after having awarded the contract how much will the contractor expect in recompense?

Jonathan

Not mention the contracts for theopartbuilt TBM'S and all the lining segments and the track, all of which Ithink have been contracted for. Sadly the people who make the decisions don't have tpay for their incompetence. 

 

Jamie

[Ron Ron Ron]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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[Ron Ron Ron]

4 minutes ago, jamie92208 said:

Not mention the contracts for theopartbuilt TBM'S and all the lining segments and the track, all of which Ithink have been contracted for. Sadly the people who make the decisions don't have tpay for their incompetence. 

 

Jamie

 

....and this decision to delay, will cost very dearly indeed.

 

The Euston tunnels TBM's will have to delivered and start tunnelling, at least as far as a few hundred metres, beyond the Atlas logistics tunnel.

Otherwise, once the OOC HS2 station construction passes a certain point, there'll be no way of getting them below ground, assembled and prepared to start tunnelling.

The only way to get the sections in, is via the Victoria Road access, or the OOC station box.

 

 

.

[Siberian Snooper]

15 hours ago, APOLLO said:

I wonder what they will put in the sarcophagus to be buried in a secret vault in the Chiltern tunnel !!!!

 

Brit15

 

Just concrete in all the naysayers and back peddlers, that should keep the future archeologists occupied for a century or so, in a millenia or two.

 

 

[Edwin_m]

10 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

 

....and this decision to delay, will cost very dearly indeed.

 

The Euston tunnels TBM's will have to delivered and start tunnelling, at least as far as a few hundred metres, beyond the Atlas logistics tunnel.

Otherwise, once the OOC HS2 station construction passes a certain point, there'll be no way of getting them below ground, assembled and prepared to start tunnelling.

The only way to get the sections in, is via the Victoria Road access, or the OOC station box..

And presumably then they then sit for a couple of years doing nothing, in a confined and possibly damp environment.  And are expected to work perfectly thereafter, without any possibility of pulling them out for maintenance.  

[Ron Ron Ron]

17 minutes ago, Edwin_m said:

And presumably then they then sit for a couple of years doing nothing, in a confined and possibly damp environment.  And are expected to work perfectly thereafter, without any possibility of pulling them out for maintenance.  

Plus all the supporting infrastructure will have to be maintained for a few years longer, including the conveyor system that takes spoil out through the logistics tunnel to Atlas Rd and onto the main conveyor from there to the Willesden site, which will also have to be kept running for those extra years.

[Siberian Snooper]

I passed Old Oak around an hour ago and there was quite a bit of surface activity, including a concrete pump with two mixer lorry's in attendance and several JCBs shifting stuff. No idea what if any activity was going on in the box. 

[Mark Saunders]

The short term bean counters get their way again and on a whole the political appointees can’t see beyond the next election!

[jjb1970]

Leaving machinery idle should be manageable as long as it is kept maintained and there's a reactivation plan. Which of course costs money. I frankly despair when I look at HS2, no wonder the country's a mess. In Asia people increasingly point to the UK and the western world in general as a warning on what not to do, and I really can't disagree with them.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Just posted on the Evening Standard news site.

 

Transport Secretary Mark Harper accepts HS2 delays will not save money

Mark Harper admitted to MPs the decision to down tools at Euston would add to HS2’s total bill

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/hs2-delays-euston-old-oak-common-mark-harper-b1075101.html

 

 

 

Delaying the HS2 high-speed line’s opening at Euston for almost two decades will not save money, Transport Secretary Mark Harper admitted on Wednesday.

The Department for Transport last month announced a two-year halt to work at Euston as part of efforts to reduce the total cost of HS2, which has soared in excess of £100bn.

 

Mr Harper told the Commons transport committee that halting work on Euston’s HS2 station and new Tube interchanges would save the amount being spent each year but added: "In itself, delaying delivering something doesn’t save money."

 

Asked whether HS2 would ever reach Euston, or permanently terminate at Old Oak Common, a new station being built in north west London, Mr Harper said: “The commitment to take HS2 to Euston remains in place.”

 

He admitted the decision to down tools at Euston, where more than £2bn has already been spent and the station’s cost is now estimated at £4.8bn, £2.2bn more than the original budget, would add to HS2’s total bill.

He said Euston would open at the same time as the second phase of HS2, when it was extended to Manchester, expected by 2041.

The Cabinet minister said: "It was significantly ahead of the budget that is available and that's why I've taken the decision to pause construction of that project.

"There is going to be some cost involved in demobilising the work there and leaving the site in a sensible way for the next couple of years that is sensible for people who live in the area.

 

"Then we're going to go back and look at coming up with a more cost-effective design for Euston."

Last month the National Audit Office revealed that the 10-platform design at Euston, which was meant to be cheaper, was now more expensive than the original 11-platform option.

Euston ‘s HS2 station was originally due to open between 2031-36, with Euston and Euston Square Tube stations also being modernised as part of the scheme.

 

The delay to Euston means that HS2 passengers will be forced to transfer onto the Elizabeth line at Old Oak Common, resulting in overcrowding akin to that on the Underground at rush hour. 

 

Marios Alexandrou, interim president of the TSSA union, said: “What we have heard from the Transport Secretary is astonishing – the Tories are making daft decisions which save no money at all but seem to offer only the slow death of HS2.

“Is Mr Harper really asking us, in 2023, to pause the building in its entirety of a rail project which would boost national, regional and local economies for decades to come because of some temporary economic issues?”

 

 

 

 

.

[jamie92208]

I'm afraid you couldn't make it up. A Whitehall farce.

 

Jamie

[Foulounoux]

2 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Just posted on the Evening Standard news site.

 

Transport Secretary Mark Harper accepts HS2 delays will not save money

Mark Harper admitted to MPs the decision to down tools at Euston would add to HS2’s total bill

 

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/hs2-delays-euston-old-oak-common-mark-harper-b1075101.html

 

 

 

Delaying the HS2 high-speed line’s opening at Euston for almost two decades will not save money, Transport Secretary Mark Harper admitted on Wednesday.

The Department for Transport last month announced a two-year halt to work at Euston as part of efforts to reduce the total cost of HS2, which has soared in excess of £100bn.

 

Mr Harper told the Commons transport committee that halting work on Euston’s HS2 station and new Tube interchanges would save the amount being spent each year but added: "In itself, delaying delivering something doesn’t save money."

 

Asked whether HS2 would ever reach Euston, or permanently terminate at Old Oak Common, a new station being built in north west London, Mr Harper said: “The commitment to take HS2 to Euston remains in place.”

 

He admitted the decision to down tools at Euston, where more than £2bn has already been spent and the station’s cost is now estimated at £4.8bn, £2.2bn more than the original budget, would add to HS2’s total bill.

He said Euston would open at the same time as the second phase of HS2, when it was extended to Manchester, expected by 2041.

The Cabinet minister said: "It was significantly ahead of the budget that is available and that's why I've taken the decision to pause construction of that project.

"There is going to be some cost involved in demobilising the work there and leaving the site in a sensible way for the next couple of years that is sensible for people who live in the area.

 

"Then we're going to go back and look at coming up with a more cost-effective design for Euston."

Last month the National Audit Office revealed that the 10-platform design at Euston, which was meant to be cheaper, was now more expensive than the original 11-platform option.

Euston ‘s HS2 station was originally due to open between 2031-36, with Euston and Euston Square Tube stations also being modernised as part of the scheme.

 

The delay to Euston means that HS2 passengers will be forced to transfer onto the Elizabeth line at Old Oak Common, resulting in overcrowding akin to that on the Underground at rush hour. 

 

Marios Alexandrou, interim president of the TSSA union, said: “What we have heard from the Transport Secretary is astonishing – the Tories are making daft decisions which save no money at all but seem to offer only the slow death of HS2.

“Is Mr Harper really asking us, in 2023, to pause the building in its entirety of a rail project which would boost national, regional and local economies for decades to come because of some temporary economic issues?”

 

 

 

 

.

As an ex member ex area officer etc of the Conservative party I despair at the general level of ignorance that we now have masquerading as ministers.  At least in the 90's we had people who had worked in the real world and understood the basics of their brief.   And of course civil servant advised and no special advisors

 

Mind you I did get told off once for informing John Major he was wrong,..... Can't recall what the issue was though 

 

[lmsforever]

Its not just HS2 thats in trouble  Hospitals, Doctors surgeries ,the roads , customs services at ports ,schools plus many other services that are in need of urgent attention very soon or this country will just stop to function .It doese not matter who is in power they have all contributed to this downfall  since 1970 we have been led by fools so what is going      to happen ?  Answers please on the back of a ten bob note.

[Richard E]

4 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Answers please on the back of a ten bob note.

And that ten bob note is probably worth several times it's face value now!

 

Got to agree with you that there has been no proper direction from politicians for very many years although we might disagree about how far back that goes. That is as far into politics as I will go. As for civil servants ...

[The Stationmaster]

On 18/04/2023 at 22:22, jamie92208 said:

Not mention the contracts for theopartbuilt TBM'S and all the lining segments and the track, all of which Ithink have been contracted for. Sadly the people who make the decisions don't have tpay for their incompetence. 

 

Jamie

Interesting piece in a book review I read recently basically saying that there is no control over the Civil Service and it is accountable tp nobody for its competence or, more accurately, its lack thereog  f and any decisions it makes or actions it might propose to a Minster.

 

Politicos are, or can be, bad enough but they can be voted out in many constituencies by the voters (some constituencies are of course much like rotten boroughs of old and are little more than fiefdoms for one or other of the main parties so ordinary voters have little chance of getting rid of useless incumbent MPs).  But that doesn't really extend to the Civi Service where it is basically controlled only by itself - and works accotrding to Parkinson's Law.

 

So we get idiot decisions like these which are inevitab;y going to increase costs and in soem cases will mean that things are paid for twice.