HS2

[lmsforever]

 Anyone who is not in favour of this project has been insulted ,vilified ,and roundly abused but I shall keep on especially when construction starts just across from were I live.Because of this line housing in my town will be going crazy with hardly any road improvements.Also none of you supporters have been short changed by HS2 when your  property has been apriated by them.A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

[caradoc]

22 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Were does  38minutes come from surely that means some very fast speeds above what is invisaged ,also the gains above Crewe will be suspect due to non tilting on the many curves on the way north.Also what will happen to the TPS services plus locals ie from Kilmarnock Doubtless HS2 will demand thier clearence from the line so as their units have priority over the surviving wcml expresses.If this happenns many existing passengers are going to be hacked off losing services and finding slower trains.

 

To take the example quoted, the conflict between HS2 services and Kilmarnock locals will be no different from now; There is at best one passenger train per hour between Carlisle and Dumfries, they only share the WCML for the 8 miles between Carlisle and Gretna Jc, and just as at present will be timetabled to avoid clashes, as will be the case for all services sharing the WCML. And when trains are running out of course the Signallers will use their skill and judgement, with the guidance of regulating policy and Traffic Management Statements, to keep trains moving and minimise delay, again no different from now.

 

Edited March 13, 2020 by caradoc
Grammar

[caradoc]

47 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

 Also none of you supporters have been short changed by HS2 when your  property has been apriated by them.A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

 

That does sound wrong, especially when the purchase of property not immediately required (eg the previously mentioned John Bishop Cheshire mansion) appears to have long since been completed. Have HS2 taken ownership of the property without having paid for it ?

 

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 minute ago, caradoc said:

 

That does sound wrong, especially when the purchase of property not immediately required (eg the previously mentioned John Bishop Cheshire mansion) appears to have long since been completed. Have HS2 taken ownership of the property without having paid for it ?

 

 

I wonder if there is any scope for short term lets of these properties while waiting to demolish them.

 

Like others, I watched that fly-by view of the 1st phaser and was amazed by the width of the solum that they are creating for this railway - about the width of a motorway. Are there really no people who would be happy to live in a house that close to the line? Electric trains running on welded track in a cutting are not really that intrusive.

[Joseph_Pestell]

1 hour ago, lmsforever said:

 Anyone who is not in favour of this project has been insulted ,vilified ,and roundly abused 

 

As have the supporters. It has been very even-handed in that respect.

 

As an HS2 sceptic, I have been attacked by both sides - a great privilege.

[Mark Saunders]

1 minute ago, Joseph_Pestell said:

 

I wonder if there is any scope for short term lets of these properties while waiting to demolish them.

 

Like others, I watched that fly-by view of the 1st phaser and was amazed by the width of the solum that they are creating for this railway - about the width of a motorway. Are there really no people who would be happy to live in a house that close to the line? Electric trains running on welded track in a cutting are not really that intrusive.

 

Northallerton is getting a new northern relief road and it is nowhere near finished with the new bridge only currently a few pegs in a field but the bits of the road built are now surrounded by new build housing, without any public transport provision!

 

This seems the norm for road improvements that have the opposite effect!

[Davexoc]

1 hour ago, lmsforever said:

Because of this line housing in my town will be going crazy with hardly any road improvements.

 

I think you are missing the point. Not improving the roads, reducing maintenance, speed reductions, and planners deliberately making new developments less car friendly, is all part of the big plan. Private car ownership will become a luxury and not the norm in the not too distant future.

If you consider that on average 96% of the time a car is parked, why do we really need them?

A couple of tonnes of metal and plastic to cart 60-80kg of person a couple of miles per day isn't very efficient.....

[Edwin_m]

2 hours ago, lmsforever said:

 Anyone who is not in favour of this project has been insulted ,vilified ,and roundly abused but I shall keep on especially when construction starts just across from were I live.Because of this line housing in my town will be going crazy with hardly any road improvements.Also none of you supporters have been short changed by HS2 when your  property has been apriated by them.A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

You may well have legitimate grievances about how HS2 is behaving in your area, and the comments by government seem to suggest some dissatisfaction about that.  But doesn't mean the scheme as a whole is a bad thing.  

Edited March 13, 2020 by Edwin_m

[phil-b259]

 

13 hours ago, lmsforever said:

 Anyone who is not in favour of this project has been insulted ,vilified ,and roundly abused but I shall keep on especially when construction starts just across from were I live.Because of this line housing in my town will be going crazy with hardly any road improvements.Also none of you supporters have been short changed by HS2 when your  property has been apriated by them.A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

 

I have explicitly said to you on several occasions that bad practices by HS2 or its contractors must be highlighted - if they are not, where is the incentive for those in charge to do better?

 

However NONE of your complaints actually affect the fundamental justification for HS2 as a project or indeed the route that has been chosen - the failure of objectors to come up with workable alternatives speaks volumes in this regard!

 

Yes, we understand you dislike the disruption during construction and many (even HS2 supporters) would no doubt complain about negative impacts during disruption - its human nature to do so about pretty much anything that makes our lives less pleasant.

 

However.....

 

(1) HS2 is not the first high speed railway to be constructed in areas locals like to think of as being places which should be protected from development of any kind (e.g. HS1 through 'the garden of England' as Kent residents like to think of it)

(2) The post build effects on Kent of HS1 are nowhere near as bad residents made out during the planning stages, and based on the plans for HS2 we have seen, the same is likely to be true in the Chilterns.

(3) Any alternatives would require just as much disruption and disturbance, if not more, to people living elsewhere - and its basically snobbery to assume that your right to a peaceful unchanging life is grater than theirs*.

 

* I should point out that this is not meant as an insult - but human society / civilisation hasn't got to where it has today by being nice to each other all the time. We might well try and elevate ourselves to a higher plane as it were morally speaking, but in truth human society has thrived precisely because we are willing to be 'nasty' as it were to our fellows rather than in spite of it.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2020 by phil-b259

[DY444]

2 hours ago, phil-b259 said:

I have explicitly said to you on several occasions that bad practices by HS2 or its contractors must be highlighted - if there are not where is the incentive for them to do better?

 

However NONE of your complaints actually affect the fundamental justification for HS2 as a project or indeed the route that has been chosen - the failure of objectors to come up with workable alternatives speaks volumes in this regard!

 

The unfortunate thing is that this is precisely why electrification has stalled.  NR make a pig's breakfast of it and the government then use that as a justification to severely curtail further schemes even though the fundamental justification for it remains unchanged (or if anything has improved).

 

There is no doubt that HS2 has been badly run and profligate and the intention appears to be to fix that because the government has concluded the project is fundamentally sound.  I wish they would take the same view with electrification however the DfT seems to thrive on contradiction.

Edited March 14, 2020 by DY444

[black and decker boy]

13 hours ago, lmsforever said:

 Anyone who is not in favour of this project has been insulted ,vilified ,and roundly abused but I shall keep on especially when construction starts just across from were I live.Because of this line housing in my town will be going crazy with hardly any road improvements.Also none of you supporters have been short changed by HS2 when your  property has been apriated by them.A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

You really do spout nonsense don’t you.

 

HS2 is not the cause or provider of ANY additional housing in Buckinghamshire. All of the new housing, in particular the 16,000 houses of the Aylesbury Garden Town extension, are a direct result of central government policy.

 

by the way, this weeks budget confirmed over £170m of capital grants to Bucks Council for brand new infrastructure connected to Aylesbury Garden Town including schools, health facilities & new roads.

 

Aylesbury will soon have a new orbital ring road to take traffic out of the town centre.

 

I know it’s against your beliefs but checking facts before posting your rants would get you a better reception here

[lmsforever]

16 hours ago, caradoc said:

 

That does sound wrong, especially when the purchase of property not immediately required (eg the previously mentioned John Bishop Cheshire mansion) appears to have long since been completed. Have HS2 taken ownership of the property without having paid for it ?

 

Yes they have and are still not paying up moving costs were paid but only after a wait.

[caradoc]

3 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Yes they have and are still not paying up moving costs were paid but only after a wait.

 

I support HS2 100% but that is bang out of order.

 

[billbedford]

 

23 hours ago, lmsforever said:

Also none of you supporters have been short changed by HS2 when your  property has been apriated by them.A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

 

You've alluded to this before, but in terms that suggest to me, that the situation is a lot more complicated than you are trying to make out. 

[Mark Saunders]

58 minutes ago, billbedford said:

 

 

You've alluded to this before, but in terms that suggest to me, that the situation is a lot more complicated than you are trying to make out. 

 

 

The whole problem with the UK is the preoccupation with property prices and the idea that it is always going to go up in value!

 

It is all a repeat of the mid 1800's when the original railways were being constructed and this includes tunnels just so the railway could not be seen!

 

 

[Bernard Lamb]

On 13/03/2020 at 19:09, lmsforever said:

 A friend of mine has been kicked out and no money is forthcoming yet so he is very unhappy along  with many others.

I do not understand what you are getting at. If his house has been compulsory purchased then he has to be paid in order to be able to purchase a new property. If not then problems arise in respect of owning two properties and being liable for the surcharge on stamp duty on the second property. I am sure that the legal people on either side will be aware of this and would not allow your friend to fall into that trap. Rather than just make off the cuff comments I would very much like to hear what is actually going on. As I said many pages ago a friend of mine who owns two rental properties in the Wendover area is very happy with the compensation for his buildings in the close to the line zones.

Bernard

[lmsforever]

• This a site further up the line and is not housing but land they even put up cameras but money is said to be forthcoming but slowly.

[Bernard Lamb]

4 hours ago, lmsforever said:

• This a site further up the line and is not housing but land they even put up cameras but money is said to be forthcoming but slowly.

But what has that got to do with HS2 legislation?

No doubt there will be an expert along soon to quote chapter and verse regarding access issues for various reasons.

Bernard

 

[black and decker boy]

11 hours ago, lmsforever said:

• This a site further up the line and is not housing but land they even put up cameras but money is said to be forthcoming but slowly.

So is it CPO or is it land licensed for temporary access (ie ownership doesn’t change and the land is effectively rented by HS2).

Edited March 15, 2020 by black and decker boy
Reworded for clarity

[lmsforever]

No choice for owners you are in the way get out here is the price pay you when we feel like ,not a goood way to do business.Also took land in a field of wheat but would not let farmer harvest crop he had planted on hs2 property.Farmer even said they could have money so they let it rot.Vandals hope the companies practices are overhauled by inquiry.

[melmerby]

HS2's CPOs are no different to anyone else's CPOs and there is fixed way of determining values which is part of a statute of law.

The compensation rate isn't decided by HS2

 

Section 5 of the Land Compensation Act 1961 lies at the heart of the Compensation Code.  In accordance with Rule 2 of Section 5 of the Land Compensation Act 1961, a claimant is entitled to the value of their land/property.  Due to the effect a Compulsory Purchase Order can have on property values, when assessing the level of compensation regard is paid to the “no scheme world”, i.e. the effect of the CPO (both positive and negative) is ignored and the value of the land/property to be taken is on the basis of open Market Value.

[Matt C]

The Station: trouble on the tracks   STV (ITV as well maybe ?) right now. . . Covering among other things Birmingham new Street. Looks like it will certainly show why HS2 is needed

Edited March 19, 2020 by Mattc6911

[Dava]

How will COVID19 impact on HS2?

 

It will. A huge, unquantified amount of public [our] money/debt into the future is being spent to lessen the economic effects of the virus. This will only increase. How will it be funded?  People see they can work & survive without frequent long-distance commuting.

 

There will be a stronger popular [dont ignore it] view that we don't need or want to pay for HS2, Crossrail 2, Heathrow. Runway 3.  If they don't help us in the everyday experience.

 

They will want to see big improvement in their daily experience, eg cross-Manchester commuting and investment there.

 

Things are changing in new ways.

 

Dava 

[mdvle]

2 hours ago, Dava said:

How will COVID19 impact on HS2?

 

We have no clue.  It is far too early to tell what the exact repercussions will be.

 

2 hours ago, Dava said:

It will. A huge, unquantified amount of public [our] money/debt into the future is being spent to lessen the economic effects of the virus. This will only increase. How will it be funded?  People see they can work & survive without frequent long-distance commuting.

 

Sadly, likely wishful thinking.  While a lot can be done working from home a lot of stuff is still better done in an office.

 

2 hours ago, Dava said:

There will be a stronger popular [dont ignore it] view that we don't need or want to pay for HS2, Crossrail 2, Heathrow. Runway 3.  If they don't help us in the everyday experience.

 

HS2, yet again like a broken record, is about creating capacity both on the lower end of the WCML and in the major stations in (some) of the cities served - thus everyday experience.  By freeing up capacity in BNS there is more slots available for "everyday" local trains.

 

2 hours ago, Dava said:

They will want to see big improvement in their daily experience, eg cross-Manchester commuting and investment there.

 

They also want jobs, and there are few ways for a government to create/maintain jobs in the short term.  But HS2 is creating a lot of jobs both directly and indirectly.  If the UK, like much of the world, goes into a recession as some think then the last thing any government should want to do is make it worse by throwing even more people out of work.

 

Even if cross-Manchester commuting improvements are possible they are still many years away by the time any design, planning, legal hurdles, etc. are factored in.

[Dava]

16 hours ago, mdvle said:

 

We have no clue.  It is far too early to tell what the exact repercussions will be.

 

 

Sadly, likely wishful thinking.  While a lot can be done working from home a lot of stuff is still better done in an office.

 

 

HS2, yet again like a broken record, is about creating capacity both on the lower end of the WCML and in the major stations in (some) of the cities served - thus everyday experience.  By freeing up capacity in BNS there is more slots available for "everyday" local trains.

 

 

They also want jobs, and there are few ways for a government to create/maintain jobs in the short term.  But HS2 is creating a lot of jobs both directly and indirectly.  If the UK, like much of the world, goes into a recession as some think then the last thing any government should want to do is make it worse by throwing even more people out of work.

 

Even if cross-Manchester commuting improvements are possible they are still many years away by the time any design, planning, legal hurdles, etc. are factored in.

 

My observations are as valid as yours. We don't know what will happen but on the other side of COVID19 the reality to complete. and ability to fund HS2 could be very different. I know the arguments pro HS2 and have been positive to date but things are changing unpredictably. And we will still have a crap old railway on the MML north of Kettering.  HS2 will not change that for many more years, if ever.

 

Dava