west highland Mallaig and the Road To The Isles

[thegreenhowards]

I used to use an Antex 25W iron which was OK, but quite slow to heat up. Since I moved to O gauge, I’ve bought a DCC concepts 150w temperature controlled iron, mainly for building brass kits. But I find it makes soldering to track much quicker and easier, so I now use it for everything. Probably overkill, but if it makes the job easier, why not?

 

As BoD says, flux is essential. I think this is one of the most misunderstood issues in soldering, but it makes a massive difference. And tinning both track and wire first really helps too. I use Peco track, but I cut the plastic web away and solder to the bottom of the rail before I lay the track. This is easier and more discreet then trying to do it to the sides after laying.

 

Good luck

 

Andy

 

 

[mallaig1983]

Thanks for the explanation Warren. A lot of the above is how I’ve done it but perhaps I haven’t done it well enough though. I will practice away from the layout and follow your guidelines. 
very much appreciated, thank you.

[61656]

15 hours ago, BoD said:

I use an Antex 18w iron and it does all the electronic/electrical soldering that I need.  However, there is a caveat, I don’t  solder directly to rail.  I am using hand built trackwork so I can solder wires to the copperclad sleepers, which I’m sure must be easier than soldering directly to rail.

Soldering iron aside there are other good practices that increase chances of a good solder joint.  Forgive me if you are already aware of these.  I use a flux paste even if the solder itself has a flux core. It ensures that the area to be soldered is clean and receptive.  Lightly coat the component before tinning.  It needs a thorough clean afterwards though.  I always ‘tin’ both items to be soldered i.e. give them both a light coat of solder separately.  With tinned components and a very small blob of solder on the tip of the iron a joint can often be achieved without any additional solder.  Make sure that the joint is well heated - the solder should turn silver and liquid.  Remove the soldering iron once this occurs to avoid overheating.  Hold the joint still until the solder solidifies - and then for a few seconds more.
 

 If you do need to apply extra solder make sure the tip of the iron is clean and tinned - ie has a light coating of solder - it should look silver not dull copper.  Heat the work then apply the solder (obviously using your third hand to do this, lol).  In and out as quickly as you can whilst getting hot enough for the solder to melt and flow on the joint.

 

Practice away from the layout until you are confident.

 

Incidentally I also use the copperclad sleepers when soldering to lengths of flexitrack with plastic sleepers.  I replace one of the plastic sleepers with a copperclad one. It makes getting a good joint to the rail so much easier.  I have some spare copperclad strip.  If you want to give it a try PM me and I will pop some in the post.

 

Agree with all of that. An excellent summary for anyone soldering a model railway or indeed copper pipes (don’t try tinning the gas gun though).

 

A good joint is always shiny and should be as strong as the components themselves. A pull test on every joint will save endless heartache later. 
 

[Nick C]

Plus the thing I always forget when soldering droppers to rail - clean the metal first before tinning...

[mallaig1983]

The rail I’ve laid on the extension section has had the droppers soldered to the underside of the rails. This was done to the best practice as outlined by your comments above. I learned a lot over the 3 years since I wired up Mallaig. I’m back home now so will venture up into the loft to see what can be done.

[61656]

15 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Plus the thing I always forget when soldering droppers to rail - clean the metal first before tinning...

To highlight the point, here’s a piece of very dirty copper pipe cleaned in 3 different methods. 
 

Left to right:

 

- Quick rub with 180grit paper 

- Flux for 5 minutes then wiped off

- 180grit clean followed by flux

 

(the very dodgy joint on the right isn’t mine, but it is the reason the pipe is now spare.)

 

You definitely should try this at home. 

[mallaig1983]

That’s quite the comparison isn’t it? Now am I correct in thinking that flux needs to be cleaned off after the joint has been made as it’s corrosive? Hence dcc concepts ‘no clean flux’? If that’s the case maybe my joints have corroded over time and became reliant on the rail joiners? That only raises questions about the initial problem, here in Mallaig the search for the short goes on. 
I have just wired up a length of code 100 (following the methods advised above) and my soldered connection looks very nice. I have done this just to eliminate the feed from the controller from the enquiry. Controller and locos tested and all ok. Now back to the rats nest………

 

[mallaig1983]

There are strange forces at play here as it’s so random it’s bizarre. I have unattached the remaining section of bus wire from my new section I did yesterday. So I renewed from the buffer stop to the crossover by the signal box so from that point on there is no electrical connection now. The new section is dead also unless I run that red cable to a positive rail and then every line on that section of the bus is live. Unclip that cable and it all dies again. My unqualified head is telling me that each and every one of the positive droppers on that section are ineffective and the juice is powering the rails via the rail joiners. When I first laid this layout I put power from the controller to only one piece of track and the whole layout ran, reverse points and all. So although that made no sense to me then and still doesn’t now it does at least hint at what is going on. Sadly it also tells me that I need to completely rewire the layout which does not excite me on the slightest. I shall continue to investigate the short as once that is found I can solder that cable to the track and at least be able to operate the layout pending the rewire.

 

yours,

baffled of North Wales.

 

 

[BoD]

1 hour ago, mallaig1983 said:

Now am I correct in thinking that flux needs to be cleaned off after the joint has been made as it’s corrosive?

Yes, warm water with washing up detergent is ok.  Cotton wool bud soaked in isopropyl alcohol is better.

 

As to the short it is difficult to advise from afar other than the obvious be methodical.  I’m assuming you have a multimeter or some way of testing continuity.  Can you disconnect sections and test those individually helping you narrow down the location of the short? Once you have located a general area can you then break that into smaller sections disconnected from everything else until you have narrowed it right down to the fault.  It’s a pain I know (don’t ask me how I know). But is more likely to lead to success than just random guessing.

[BoD]

Do all the droppers from all of your left hand rails go to one bus wire - say red- and all the droppers from the right hand rails to a separate- say black - bus wire.  Is it possible that one dropper goes to the wrong bus.

[Neal Ball]

Have you got a meter @mallaig1983?

 

Try testing each section of rail to see where you have an issue, before re-wiring.

 

Good luck.

[mallaig1983]

Sadly the multimeter is in the toolbox in the campervan and that’s not at home so I have been using 37178 to test. The station section is now running as it should (don’t ask how) so I will continue to replace the bus along the remaining 150cm or so.

Yes @BoD I checked all the droppers went to the correct bus wire, even their positions in relation to there partner just in case I had originally got any back to front. 
 

Thanks for all your suggestions and advice 

[mallaig1983]

Also because I have done away with the choc bloc connectors I can no longer isolate droppers/rail sections to test them individually. I have decided to leave it for today. A positive step forward from where I was this time yesterday. Only the last few droppers to solder to the new bus but potential for another problem so I’ve decided to end on a positive for today.

 

I did empty the fish boxes out onto their new ‘hump’ and the pile now looks much more significant. The boxes have just been poured out of a plastic container and I love the way they all sit as if they had just been hoyed one at a time onto the stack.

 

 

[Kylestrome]

4 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

am I correct in thinking that flux needs to be cleaned off after the joint has been made as it’s corrosive?

 

Not if you use the correct flux! For electrical wiring you should be using resin based flux, eg. Carr's Orange Label or similar.

 

HTH,

David

 

Edited July 9, 2023 by Kylestrome

[mallaig1983]

It’s been one of those mornings. I woke early at half past 6, showered, dressed and made a brew and by 7 I was watching a random Everard Junction on YouTube. After it finished I was in the mood to venture into the attic. I can happily report that after a couple of hours of careful soldering I now have a new and fully functioning dcc bus. I have just done an hours continuous testing with all of my dcc fitted fleet without hiccup so I am absolutely over the moon. I did hit a bit of a low point over the weekend so thank you guys for all the support and advice and giving me a lift. Lessons have been learned for when I start Glenfinnan in the winter. I still have the catch point to fit, wire in and motorise but that’s for another day.

And as I’ve been writing this BRM magazine has just dropped through the letterbox so it’s a good Monday so far. Hopefully work will go well later too.

 

Thanks again,

Andy

[BoD]

That is good news Andy, fingers crossed that it is a 'permanent' fix.

 

Hopefully your re-soldering has sorted your short out too.  However, if it does return I wonder if it might be something to do with the temperature in the attic causing something to expand and touch something it shouldn't.  The usual suspect in such cases are the gaps between rails particularly at the frogs where they need to be insulated.  As I said, with a bit of luck your re-soldering has sorted it, but if does return intermittently that may be something to look at. 

[David Bell]

That is great news Andy. Onwards and upwards now!

Cheers

David

[meanach]

Just to add that a small cut is required in the middle of the copper clad to stop it short circuiting. 
 

I solder my droppers to copper clad and some to under the rail. I took the realism a step too far by cutting all my SMP track into scale 60ft sections . As I learnt by trial and swearing that means you need a ton more droppers, roughy 1 set every 2 feet. I fitted that amount retrospectively and I don’t recommend that ! 
 

BoD is spot on . I’m not the worlds best solderer but I found extra flux to be the key. We must persevere with these frustrations and solder on…

 

Ian  

[mallaig1983]

Having spent most of the weekend crawling around and crouching underneath the baseboards I certainly wouldn’t recommend retrofitting soldered joints either. Nice idea re the 60’ lengths Ian but……… 😱

 

Warren I hopefully won’t get to find the cause of the short and it’s gone away forever but it could have been parts of the old wiring still attached and touching something that it shouldn’t. It was as described a real rats nest. It looks much tidier now. Future sections will be wired with the boards turned upside down. 
 

Thanks David, indeed onwards and upwards. I had a lot planned to get through this weekend and fortunately I have a free weekend with no visitors or visiting coming up so hopefully can push on.

[mallaig1983]

What do you do when your scratch building confidence is a bit rocky? Well you kit bash. I had acquired the new Peco Arisaig signal cabin with the plan to modify it to represent the box at Mallaig which was a mirror image. I took the two ends and two sides from their frets and clamped a straight edge to a suitable square of mdf and sharpened a pencil. I put the inside face of one of the ends and the front and rear sections sandwiching it with their bottom edges tight against the straight edge and with a small metal rule I drew a new line across the rear face of the end piece. Repeated several times and then the other end the same. Then with a new blade in Stanley I used the rule and scribed the new V joints along the pencil lines. The kit has an inner skin with the window frames so those sections needed modification to so a wee bit of thought required but all was good. I found the steps the biggest challenge and they do look like they have been fitted by Shane McGowan’s dentist so I will have to see how I feel about them once painted, perhaps there is something 3d printed out there. They’re ok for now at least.

I’m the photos the roof, which is still a separate section, isn’t quite sitting 100% flush but it does fit properly. I would retake the photos but the model has now been primed and is drying. I still need to glaze and fit an interior

 

 

 

 

Yesterday the catch point with fitted and wired in and the tortoise motor fitted and wired. This works in sync with the loco release point. It now requires painting and ballast.

 

A nice productive weekend and it’s time for a beer and some Scottish folk music.

 

Cheers Gents.

[meanach]

Looks good ! The remark about Shane McGowans dentist did make me chuckle. I bought the same signal box for a future , as yet unknown project! It’s a very nice kit and like you said, definitely bashable ! 
 

The clips Ive seen from this weekends Stornaway festival looked suitably Celtic rocking! 
 

 

[mallaig1983]

I’d love to go to HebCelt one day. And the Tiree music festival. Im

just listening to Travelling Folk on Radio Scotland via BBC sounds. Great music. Will check YouTube clips later thanks

[03060]

2 hours ago, mallaig1983 said:

I’d love to go to HebCelt one day. And the Tiree music festival. Im

just listening to Travelling Folk on Radio Scotland via BBC sounds. Great music. Will check YouTube clips later thanks

 

I've been listening to Catherine-Ann MacPhee for most of the week whilst driving home from work, I first came across her having watched the The Railways of Scotland No.5 VHS 'The Western Highlands' many, many years ago .... I've never understood a word that she sings, mind, as it's all in Gaelic but I have several of her CDs in my collection .... and the songs just sound 'right' to my ears.

 

I've a good few British and Irish folk CDs but I'm always on the lookout for others 'new' to me so all recommendations are welcome on the Scottish front as I find it helps spur me on to get on with my own WHL layout, which is still at the basic baseboard level at the moment as I still try to get the balance right between desired and achievable within my modelling room.

 

Regards,

Ian.

Edited July 16, 2023 by 03060
Correction.

[mallaig1983]

That’s spooky Ian because Catherine Ann McPhee’s cd is in the car at tge moment and I too have been listening to it on my commute and it’s the one that provides several tracks for that video/dvd from a few years back. Great minds and all that. My main interest in Scottish folk is what I describe as Folk-Rock with the likes of Runrig, Teail West, Heron Valley, Skipinnish, Tidelines etc. Ideal soundtrack when touring around the west coast and the Islands. 

[mallaig1983]

Just now, mallaig1983 said:

That’s spooky Ian because Catherine Ann McPhee’s cd is in the car at tge moment and I too have been listening to it on my commute and it’s the one that provides several tracks for that video/dvd from a few years back. Great minds and all that. My main interest in Scottish folk is what I describe as Folk-Rock with the likes of Runrig, Teail West, Heron Valley, Skipinnish, Tidelines etc. Ideal soundtrack when touring around the west coast and the Islands. 

Ps you really need to make a start on that layout 😀