Panic buying

[Titan]

One other aspect is there are many people on low incomes that rely on a car.  They may be living day to day and normally only put a tenner in when the warning light comes on - better money in the bank rather than sitting in the tank.  This strategy only works when the fuel supply is reliable.  If the car is essential, and the risk of running out of fuel is high and the consequences bad, then this strategy has to be changed to getting a full tank instead, as this is now more important than than keeping enough money in the bank to cover bills.

[black and decker boy]

It’s 5000 hgv visas by the way not 500.

 

still a drop in the ocean against a shortage of up to 100,000.

 

 

[Mark Saunders]

8 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

500 drivers will make very little difference anyway.

 

For a start, you have to find 500 drivers desperate to work in the UK - 3 x months until Christmas then off you go to look for work in their own countries during January - they are having a giraff.

 

These drivers will also remember the inhumane conditions they had to put with on the M20/Manstone Airport a few months ago.

 

There will inevitably have to be some sort of priorities - fuel for essential workers to get to work, food to take priority over stuff you cannot eat.

 

If us HGV drivers cannot get to the depots (I'm 40 miles away from mine & my early start precludes using public transport) the company I work for have suggested that we may have to take the trucks home - that will please the neighbours.

Why worry, working from home is the new norm!

[Phil Parker]

2 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

Why worry, working from home is the new norm!

 

For 40% of the workforce at most. Your plumber still has to come to you, or he would if he could get petrol for his van!

[Rivercider]

3 minutes ago, Titan said:

One other aspect is there are many people on low incomes that rely on a car.  They may be living day to day and normally only put a tenner in when the warning light comes on - better money in the bank rather than sitting in the tank.  This strategy only works when the fuel supply is reliable.  If the car is essential, and the risk of running out of fuel is high and the consequences bad, then this strategy has to be changed to getting a full tank instead, as this is now more important than than keeping enough money in the bank to cover bills.

I am hoping that will be the case, and that having filled their tanks there are now many motorists who will not be needing fuel for a few weeks, so the situation can stabilise. On the other hand if everyone keeps calling in to top up the tank then the problem will last much longer.

I have not rushed to buy fuel (I can walk to work), so have behaved as the government have requested. Mrs Rivercider is getting anxious as this weekend are driving to Devon on Sunday for a few days break. I know the filling station at the supermarket where I work shelf stacking was rationing diesel last week (the local ambulance station use the pumps), hopefully I will be OK for petrol tomorrow after work,

 

cheers

[SamThomas]

17 minutes ago, black and decker boy said:

It’s 5000 hgv visas by the way not 500.

 

still a drop in the ocean against a shortage of up to 100,000.

 

 

My apologies - I found the missing "0" under the keyboard.....

[F-UnitMad]

24 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

If you want a faster solution, you've got to bringing the troops in or redirect other HGV drivers (eg those currently hauling containers) onto tankers.  They'll have to know about loading/unloading/fire precautions etc too. 

As I said a couple of pages back, it isn't as simple as swapping drivers from something else to fuel tankers - the "have to know about loading/unloading/fire precautions etc too" bit is the ADR Tankers hazardous goods qualification, which is a week's training at least, and even then do you want lots of inexperienced tanker drivers suddenly let loose on the roads?

A shortage of drivers at BP & Esso (as I understand it) says a great deal about the employment terms & conditions they must've been offering, to have a shortage, as tanker work was always one of the top paying HGV jobs years ago.

[Reorte]

33 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I wish you luck, but I rather fear you'll soon hit the problem as I doubt it will go away anywhere near as quickly as it arose.  500 visas is all very well, but that assumes there's 500 foreign lorry drivers who want to come here, are available for work now, have all heard about it in their foreign press, don't have to give notice to current employers and can figure out how to get one of these new visas.  Frankly, I don't see all that happening in 24 hours.  These visas will expire at Xmas, which is when the first few applicants have probably just got one. 

The lack of drivers might hit the odd petrol station from time to time but the current bigger problem we've got is far more due to people reacting to that story and then others reacting to that response. So once they've filled up as much as they can I'm hoping that things will settle down to more or less normal fairly quickly, although it'll depend upon how fast the stock can be replaced (which might be slightly hit by the driver shortage; how much so will depend upon how often they get deliveries anyway, I've no idea about that).

[APOLLO]

20 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

For 40% of the workforce at most. Your plumber still has to come to you, or he would if he could get petrol for his van!

 

Agree, also most people drive to the shops (supermarkets) for food etc at least once per week. Local shops within walking distance is history for most these days. This will cause more panic buying, stocking up of essentials.

 

A perfect storm is brewing unfortunately, on far too many fronts.

 

Our politicians of all parties are third rate or worse. Not fit for purpose, blinkered non forward thinking or contingency planning etc.

Industry leaders nearly as bad, only looking at the bottom line.

 

Brit15

 

 

[APOLLO]

Time for a laugh ---

 

 

 

 

Top tip !!!!

 

 

And finally ---

 

 

Brit15

[SamThomas]

46 minutes ago, F-UnitMad said:

tanker work was always one of the top paying HGV jobs years ago.

Indeed it was - tanker driver jobs were never advertised & you really had to know someone already there to get in.

Very, very good money, nice clean & 110% maintained truck & no nights out.

Then of course higher management started to make the job less attractive with the result we have noww.

[boxbrownie]

What puzzles me, especially in relation to the fuel tanker driver “issue” is why was there no gradual problem with lack of drivers?  Did 200/500/1000 drivers suddenly decide to retire last week?

 

The problem with the fuel shortage is not drivers as I see but the media frenzy causing a supply chain deficiency at extremely short notice.

 

The shortage of food and general heavy deliveries has been building for months if not longer, but the fuel….not so sure.

[SamThomas]

33 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

 

 Local shops within walking distance is history for most these days.

 

Where I live there is a corner shop (actually on a corner), a small/medium sized minimart & a Marks & Spencers (filling station) all within an easy walk. However, with Aldi 10 minutes away by car & a selection of TesAsBury's 15 minutes away we only use the local shops for topping up because of the price structures.

[SamThomas]

Found this on the internet with the caption "every little helps, but not at Asda price."

[Mark Saunders]

2 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Found this on the internet with the caption "every little helps, but not at Asda price."

Rather like finding Asda staff pushing a trolley around Aldi!

[SamThomas]

7 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

What puzzles me, especially in relation to the fuel tanker driver “issue” is why was there no gradual problem with lack of drivers?  Did 200/500/1000 drivers suddenly decide to retire last week?

 

The problem with the fuel shortage is not drivers as I see but the media frenzy causing a supply chain deficiency at extremely short notice.

 

The shortage of food and general heavy deliveries has been building for months if not longer, but the fuel….not so sure.

There have certainly been delays in fuel deliveries but if "A" runs out of fuel due to late delivery then "B" will still have fuel.

 

It all goes to show how little contingency ther is in the logistics industry.

[Jol Wilkinson]

2 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Where I live there is a corner shop (actually on a corner), a small/medium sized minimart & a Marks & Spencers (filling station) all within an easy walk. However, with Aldi 10 minutes away by car & a selection of TesAsBury's 15 minutes away we only use the local shops for topping up because of the price structures.

I think the once a week large supermarket shop, which is 10 - 25 minutes drive for most people, is the norm. Only if you have a local convenience store, butcher, baker, etc. are you likely to use those for "topping up", as we do. Unfortunately, the local Spar and Coop are regularly out of several staple products. My wife is combining her trip to the hairdressers today with a visit to the Tesco Extra nearby. Apparently they (or the BP site next door) have no fuel and "there are lots of empty shelves".

 

The education sector, driven by various government ideals has produced  "better" qualified school leavers with degrees and hence higher job expectations. For decades, governments haven't recognised, accepted or planned for the need for a skilled workforce to provide healthcare, transport and distribution staff, etc. The temporary visa plan, even if it works will only be a temporary fix and then we'll be back in the poo again. It's enough to make you want to move to France.

[Steamport Southport]

1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said:

Why worry, working from home is the new norm!

 

Total myth I'm afraid. 

 

Your boss will want you back at your office where they can see what you are doing. If you don't, then expect your hours to be cut as well as your pay.

 

I know for a fact that many office workers are now getting the "get back or get sacked" warnings. That includes civil servants and include people I know who work for the DWP.

 

 

Jason

[Reorte]

27 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

What puzzles me, especially in relation to the fuel tanker driver “issue” is why was there no gradual problem with lack of drivers?  Did 200/500/1000 drivers suddenly decide to retire last week?

 

The problem with the fuel shortage is not drivers as I see but the media frenzy causing a supply chain deficiency at extremely short notice.

 

The shortage of food and general heavy deliveries has been building for months if not longer, but the fuel….not so sure.

I suppose with the overall shortage of drivers there's always been the chance of the odd blip and a small number of stations running out for a day or two. In the grand scheme of things that wouldn't really be noticeable but once you get a few people over-reacting to it we can end up in the sort of positive feedback loop we've got happening now.

[37114]

I am currently getting updates every few hours from my various transport managers re the fuel situation (we have a lot of regionally based fleet so rely on filling stations away from the Distribution centres), and have been pleasantly surprised so far. We are having very few issues in the Midlands/North, main area of concern is Norwich/ Suffolk seem to be dry and some concern into North Essex. South West is proving a challenge and some queues but we are finding places. It does help some places are doing HGV diesel only, presumably because the tanks for the HGV pumps are separate from the car pumps.

 

The tanker driver situation has been less of an issue due to a number of factors (as called out earlier in part):

- They were/are the most well paid with generally good working patterns, decent kit etc so weren't tempted to jack it in to go and work for Tesco etc on RDC Multi drop work

- People are travelling less due to working from home so fuel demand is less so the natural loss of older drivers retiring is not affecting the industry as much

- There is a small but growing percentage of Electric cars on the road that don't need diesel/petrol.

The shortage in the tanker sector is insufficient drivers/tankers to cope with current demand right here, right now and not an underlying issue.

 

There are suggestions/speculation that the panic buying was deliberately "created" to help force the governments hand on the Visa situation, which maybe true but the reality is the terms offered are hardly going to be attractive to solve the problems we have now.

[Steamport Southport]

32 minutes ago, boxbrownie said:

What puzzles me, especially in relation to the fuel tanker driver “issue” is why was there no gradual problem with lack of drivers?  Did 200/500/1000 drivers suddenly decide to retire last week?

 

The problem with the fuel shortage is not drivers as I see but the media frenzy causing a supply chain deficiency at extremely short notice.

 

The shortage of food and general heavy deliveries has been building for months if not longer, but the fuel….not so sure.

 

Covered earlier on SKY. Confirmed by the Petrol Retailers Association.

 

A whistleblower went to a "British broadcaster" and spread rumours that fuel was going to run out in the next few weeks. That broadcaster broadcast it and there was a run on fuel. They are now struggling to replenish that fuel.

 

I'll leave you to guess which broadcaster it was but they were telling people to "fill me can".

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Mark Saunders said:

Why worry, working from home is the new norm!

 

Don't tell us - tell the tanker drivers!

[alastairq]

The question of ''using the Army [and RAF]'' to supplement civilian drivers for fuel deliveries is fraught with it's own issues.

Firstly, the soldiers/air personnel have been, and are being, trained to far higher standards thanks to the civilian operators dictating the course criteria.

 

Significant in that the military will be using the civilian operators' vehicles. [Rather than turning up in an Oshkosh and off-road capable tanker]

The have all undergone ADR courses [and passed] provided by the MoD.

As such, they will all be quit competent drivers [especially the lasses]...

I had some personal contact with the courses when they were first set up.

The physical driving side was created by civilian instructors who had long, personal experience  of tanker driving. [Not a couple of years, but decades]

This involved re-creating all the nasty devious types of ancient oil refinery loading spots, all the nasty devious delivery spots, that could be thought of. 

[Nothing is straight forwards for a lorry or bus driver in this country..it has too much in the way of legacy infrastructure!!!]

The tanker training itself was conducted with civilian equivalents [on lease, I believe, probably]....artic vehicle [albeit the tanks filled with water, not fuel]

But first the 'students' had to undergo artic training and assessment ... {My involvement here was, training instructors to fill places should the Op be activated]

Having already passed the appropriate Hazmat course....the students  then pass the main course.....BUT, unless they are utilized almost immediately , they go away to 'do other things', such is the life of military personnel.

Thus, although they are 'qualified' they will likely be  timed-out for that qualification, and need refresher training.  Which won't be an immediate action..it takes time to get personnel away frote 'jobs' they are doing now, send them back to  [DCLPA, aka DST] to undergo an appropriately worked-up refresher course....This all takes time. Plus, who will do the jobs that are vacated by the personnel who are now on a refresher course to drive civilian tankers?

 

A lot of shuffling about of personnel..and instructors, of course.

Of course, there has been for decades a shortage of qualified instructors too....something the MoD wanted to close its eyes to, but were awakened after I retired....[again, like LGV drivers, an aging skilled workforce...}

After the turn of the century [this one, not the last one].....the DSA [now DVSA] had an issue with LGV instructors nationwide. Unlike car driver instructors {ADI] there was no official LGV instructor register...anyone could do it, effectively [and, still can]... So the DSA set up a Register....whereupon mst of the Cat C, C+E & D+E instructors employed by the MoD [civil servants]  qualified for, and were placed on the DSA LGV Instructor register.....numbers soared from a couple of hundred, nationwide, to well over a thousand, just from my own Establishment alone.

Come renewal time, the DSA wanted £125 from each of us, teh MoD refused to subsidies, and the Registration wasn't in itself a  compulsory requirement for us to do our various instructional jobs....so, almost overnight, the DSA was faced with a drip of Registered Instructors of nearly a half...we all got snottograms from DSA [in a fit of pique, obviously] about not renewing....{ I should add, we all held relevant military qualifications for our relevant work...which paralleled, and sometimes exceeded, civilian equivalents]

 

The current political suggestion of utilising Military Driving Examiners to test civilians is a nice idea...but will involve both civilian & military personnel, who are definitely not currently just sitting around doing nothing for a living.  [Military examiners are 'governed' by the DSA as-was]

So, whilst MoD examiners are out testing civilians, who is testing the military personnel also being trained?

 

 

Mind, the military have never hit their recruitment targets [hence when cuts in personnel have been demanded, very few if any, recently have been chucked out...since the existing numbers of personnel were actually below the new lower number demanded.....

 

So like every other aspect of our lives, the reality numbers never ever mathc the top line numbers.

Whether it's lorry drivers, teachers, medical personnel, or whatever.

 

[Phil Parker]

7 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

Covered earlier on SKY. Confirmed by the Petrol Retailers Association.

 

A whistleblower went to a "British broadcaster" and spread rumours that fuel was going to run out in the next few weeks. That broadcaster broadcast it and there was a run on fuel. They are now struggling to replenish that fuel.

 

I'll leave you to guess which broadcaster it was but they were telling people to "fill me can".

 

Hardly a "whistle blower" - it was BP who sent out a press release. What is any media outlet supposed to do with that, ignore it? Then be accused of burying bad news?

[Ouroborus]

11 minutes ago, Phil Parker said:

 

Hardly a "whistle blower" - it was BP who sent out a press release. What is any media outlet supposed to do with that, ignore it? Then be accused of burying bad news?

Well, given what we all knew would happen, maybe it is an idea to ignore it.  Plenty of news stories get ignored everyday, plenty of others get trumped up to sell advertising.  Daily Mail, take your bow.