Panic buying

[chris p bacon]

On a trip north on the A1 yesterday I saw queues at many petrol stations with those near Peterborough having queues that stretched back onto the A1, quite why you’d think it a good idea to be stationary on a dual carriageway beggared belief. The queues seemed to recede the further north I went until I got North of Newcastle where there were none. Garages seemed to have fuel and there was no cones. 
comedy element for the day was a pick up truck in a garage near black cat roundabout that was filling a water butt on the back!…. Good luck on the first corner 

[alastairq]

7 minutes ago, SamThomas said:

Relativly easy to "black" a vehicle by way of finding a fault with it on the daily walkround (admittedly not quite so easy on a well maintained fleet).

 No good for the employee if all the vehicles are 'blacked'.....then there's the mortgage payments to consider?

 

AS well as the backlash from all those who suffered because ambulances or fire appliances cannot get fuel?

Or all those whose cars, so essential for getting to work, or working, full stop,  because of the lack of fuel deliveries?

 

Certain jobs are deemed of strategic importance, by successive governments of all colours. {For example, the emergency services?}

 

Ever since the coal & electricity generating strikes of the 1970's [which brought down governments]....successive governments have strived to prevent strategic workers from using striking as a method of airing grievances.

[alastairq]

2 minutes ago, chris p bacon said:

quite why you’d think it a good idea to be stationary on a dual carriageway beggared belief.

 This is...or should be, expected by any competent driver, when driving along a dual carriageway. Along with all sorts of other conflicting traffic .[Crossing traffic, traffic in the right lane stopping to turn right, flocks of sheep [or petrol station queues?] tractors, bicycles, pedestrians, etc.

 

However, I do acknowledge your point, but this is down to drivers failing to change their driving heads from motorway heads to dual carriageway heads.

Which is why, the safest roads to drive on are motorways [no conflicting traffic]...and the most 'dangerous' [IE, risk-laden] roads to drive on are dual carriageways.

 

Standing traffic on a  motorway [road under motorway regulations..not necessarily multi lane,] is a nasty thing.....

[PhilJ W]

12 hours ago, PhilJ W said:

It is easier to organise trade union activities when the employees are all in one place. By its very nature truck driving is difficult if not impossible to organise.

 

2 hours ago, boxbrownie said:

The Americans did it back in the 40’s very successfully 

 

Indeed the Mafia was very well organised, as Jimmy Hoffa can confirm (if you could find him).

[rockershovel]

In Mansfield and Nottingham yesterday. Few filling stations open, long queues at those which were. I had noticed a main service area on the A1 which probably had a delivery Monday pm, filled up there Tues evening with no difficulty (although expensive, 163p / litre) One other station on A1 seemed to have fuel. So, I now have fuel for planned travels over the weekend...

[black and decker boy]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

An issue I foresee arising from this liberation of visas for Euro-lorryists [loads of Somalian lorry drivers just itching to avoid a sea crossing too!] is one of legal responsibility.

 

An issue , many years back, concerned Irish lorry drivers breaking the GB Laws, and effectively being immune to prosecution and or punishment.

 

After a looooong struggle, the UK finally got the other EU countries to agree to bring to book drivers of their nationality who had been prosecuted/ticketed for traffic offences in the UK.

 

I cannot see any EU [or non-EU] country being willing to pursue any of their lorry drivers for offences committed within the UK over the coming months.

I also cannot see the UK even remotely attempting to bring any to book, by compulsory impounding of vehicles, and/or restraining of offending drivers...let alone instant deportation.....!

The effect will be, one's own insurance policy picking up the financial pieces....

The roads will be plastered with non-GB lorry drivers who simply will not care...as there will be no effective way of sanctioning them in event of committing offences.

 

But all this will be totally ignored by the public at large, since everyone still wants their turkeys at Christmas.

So, road safety, insurance costs, etc will all go by the board.....

 

In the meantime, UK lorry drivers will face the full force of the Law should they commit  offences...

 

Which hardly seems fair to me!

 

 

A slight exaggeration perhaps, only 5000 temp hgv visas. 
 

There are probably more than that cross from Dover / Calais every week anyway.

[alastairq]

1 minute ago, black and decker boy said:

only 5000 temp hgv visas.

Depends how deep & far the GB Govt. have to go to actually get all those visas effectively issued?

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

An issue I foresee arising from this liberation of visas for Euro-lorryists [loads of Somalian lorry drivers just itching to avoid a sea crossing too!] is one of legal responsibility.

 

An issue , many years back, concerned Irish lorry drivers breaking the GB Laws, and effectively being immune to prosecution and or punishment.

 

After a looooong struggle, the UK finally got the other EU countries to agree to bring to book drivers of their nationality who had been prosecuted/ticketed for traffic offences in the UK.

 

I cannot see any EU [or non-EU] country being willing to pursue any of their lorry drivers for offences committed within the UK over the coming months.

I also cannot see the UK even remotely attempting to bring any to book, by compulsory impounding of vehicles, and/or restraining of offending drivers...let alone instant deportation.....!

The effect will be, one's own insurance policy picking up the financial pieces....

The roads will be plastered with non-GB lorry drivers who simply will not care...as there will be no effective way of sanctioning them in event of committing offences.

 

But all this will be totally ignored by the public at large, since everyone still wants their turkeys at Christmas.

So, road safety, insurance costs, etc will all go by the board.....

 

In the meantime, UK lorry drivers will face the full force of the Law should they commit  offences...

 

Which hardly seems fair to me!

 

 

 

I listened to the radio some time ago about lorries from abroad not paying the Dartford Crossing toll, if the DVLA were any good they would be using the ANPR at the entry ports and impounding the lorries until the tolls and appropriate fines are paid, so easy to apply and would raise millions very quickly and ensure the companies paid their dues. However as you would expect the highly paid Civil Service managers do nothing !!!!!

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, alastairq said:

However, I do acknowledge your point, but this is down to drivers failing to change their driving heads from motorway heads to dual carriageway heads.

Which is why, the safest roads to drive on are motorways [no conflicting traffic]...and the most 'dangerous' [IE, risk-laden] roads to drive on are dual carriageways.

This is not helped by discontinuity of status on some roads.  The Great North Road changes from motorway to dual carriageway & back in places (although not as frequently as it used to), a bit like when the East Coast Main Line was criticised by HMRI because drivers didn't t know which stretches were Goods Lines (permissive block) and which were Slow lines (absolute block).  

[admiles]

40 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I listened to the radio some time ago about lorries from abroad not paying the Dartford Crossing toll, if the DVLA were any good they would be using the ANPR at the entry ports and impounding the lorries until the tolls and appropriate fines are paid, so easy to apply and would raise millions very quickly and ensure the companies paid their dues. However as you would expect the highly paid Civil Service managers do nothing !!!!!

 

Small problem with that idea. Many European countries don't require the trailer and tractor unit to have the same registration number.  Many trailer are also rented, often on a short term basis.  So you could have a case where a trailer 34EFG57 is clocked with a rear facing camera doing 50 in a 30 limit one week whilst being hauled by Pierre from Dieppe one week and returns to the UK the next week being hauled by Sebastien from Paris working for a completely different company the next....

 

So do you impound Sebastien's truck?

Edited September 29, 2021 by admiles

[Fat Controller]

1 hour ago, black and decker boy said:

A slight exaggeration perhaps, only 5000 temp hgv visas. 
 

There are probably more than that cross from Dover / Calais every week anyway.

Every day , rather than every week, and about the same on the Tunnel.

[admiles]

2 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

On a trip north on the A1 yesterday I saw queues at many petrol stations with those near Peterborough having queues that stretched back onto the A1, quite why you’d think it a good idea to be stationary on a dual carriageway beggared belief. The queues seemed to recede the further north I went until I got North of Newcastle where there were none. Garages seemed to have fuel and there was no cones. 
comedy element for the day was a pick up truck in a garage near black cat roundabout that was filling a water butt on the back!…. Good luck on the first corner 

 

Maybe some of those people in the queue really didn't want to be there and knew it wasn't the safest place to be but needed fuel before they ran out? 

[admiles]

5 minutes ago, Fat Controller said:

Every day , rather than every week, and about the same on the Tunnel.

 

Indeed.  I seem to have paperwork for most of their Customs declarations on my desk currently....

[hayfield]

8 minutes ago, admiles said:

 

Small problem with that idea. Many European countries don't require the trailer and tractor unit to have the same registration number.  Many trailer are also rented, often on a short term basis.  So you could have a case where a trailer 34EFG57 is clocked with a rear facing camera doing 50 in a 30 limit one week whilst being hauled by Pierre from Dieppe one week and returns to the UK the next week being hauled by Sebastien from Paris working for a completely different company the next....

 

So do you impound Sebastien's truck?

 

 

What's the problem ? its the trailer as well as the tractor unit that goes across the bridge, the trailer owner will know who hauled it and clearly their contractor failed to observe the law. Let the trailer owner resolve the issue with their contractor

 

The thing is once it is known action will be taken then the companies will pay. Yes in the very short term it will cause issues, but it will stop this illegal activity overnight.  

 

The goods on board is the key to this, yes impound tractor and trailer, plus if the trailer was showing the incorrect licence plate, this also is against the law

Edited September 29, 2021 by hayfield

[Reorte]

Things have settled down around my way. Filled up last night at my local Tesco (I was getting very empty, might've managed one more day but that would've been it), didn't have to queue, although there weren't any queues there when I walked past at the weekend either. A couple of petrol stations that I pass on the way to work that were just backing out on to the road earlier in the week had no queue at all this morning. One with no cars at all (presumably empty though).

[Michael Hodgson]

1 minute ago, admiles said:

 

Maybe some of those people in the queue really didn't want to be there and knew it wasn't the safest place to be but needed fuel before they ran out? 

I really dislike that stretch of the A1.  There's far too many vehicles suddenly realising they're in the wrong lane for the roundabout and others pulling out of the filling station.  Accident waiting to happen.

There is a proposal to build a new St Neots station near there serving the Cambridge-Oxford new route and to rebuild Black Cat with A1/A428 flyovers/flyunders.  It should solve the traffic jams there but will cost a fortune, so I'm not counting on seeing it in my lifetime.

[Andy Hayter]

1 minute ago, hayfield said:

 

 

What's the problem ? its the trailer as well as the tractor unit that goes across the bridge, the trailer owner will know who hauled it and clearly their contractor failed to observe the law. Let the trailer owner resolve the issue with their contractor

 

The thing is once it is known action will be taken then the companies will pay. Yes in the very short term it will cause issues, but it will stop this illegal activity overnight.  

 

The problem?

 

The owner will receive the demands for money.  They may no longer be enforceable after a little contatemps resulting in the UK leaving the EU.  But let's assume that they are.

 

The trailer owner knows which company he has leased the trailer to but will have no idea who is the driver.  The company may be in another country.  So that would require a potential cross border legal demand.  The renting company  should know who the driver is but this may again be a foreign (to them) driver and possibly a foreign(to them) tractor unit.  So another cross border legal demand.

 

Are you beginning to see how difficult this becomes?  

[Fat Controller]

2 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

What's the problem ? its the trailer as well as the tractor unit that goes across the bridge, the trailer owner will know who hauled it and clearly their contractor failed to observe the law. Let the trailer owner resolve the issue with their contractor

 

The thing is once it is known action will be taken then the companies will pay. Yes in the very short term it will cause issues, but it will stop this illegal activity overnight.  

Prior to the Event that must not be named, penalties imposed in one country by someone from another were passed to the offender's authorities to be applied. I found this to my cost when I received a ticket from a speed camera near Rouen at home in Kent. It should be said it was not a rapid process; the ticket arrived several months after the offence. 

[admiles]

21 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

 

What's the problem ? its the trailer as well as the tractor unit that goes across the bridge, the trailer owner will know who hauled it and clearly their contractor failed to observe the law. Let the trailer owner resolve the issue with their contractor

 

The thing is once it is known action will be taken then the companies will pay. Yes in the very short term it will cause issues, but it will stop this illegal activity overnight.  

 

The problem is some leasing companies have thousands of trailers operating all over Europe. Trailers get leased, sub-leased, loaned, etc. Do you think a company in say Croatia is going to respond to a request from the bridge operators (or a UK police force for a speeding fine)  for the details of who had trailer so and so on a particular day? Even if they actually knew.  It's great idea in theory in a black an white world but the world isn't like that. The time and money it would take to pursue would far outweigh the value of the fine. 

 

We've currently got a situation in the UK where cargo is entering the UK with zero Customs control in many of the ferry ports (including Dover!) Vehicles roll off the ferries/Shuttle and disappear without being Customs cleared or paying any VAT/Import duties etc. In theory companies are supposed to complete a retrospective declaration within 6 months of arrival. How many are actually doing that do you think? Answer know one actually knows because no one has a clue what's arriving.  All done on trust. The country is losing millions in uncollected VAT/Import duties. A few unpaid speeding tickets or bridge tolls is frankly small change. The country has much, much bigger problems to solve first.

 

Edit: and for clarification it's not just a few rogue shipments that are uncleared on arrival, it's all of them. Everything is currently don't on trust! It's laughable.

Edited September 29, 2021 by admiles

[black and decker boy]

20 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

I really dislike that stretch of the A1.  There's far too many vehicles suddenly realising they're in the wrong lane for the roundabout and others pulling out of the filling station.  Accident waiting to happen.

There is a proposal to build a new St Neots station near there serving the Cambridge-Oxford new route and to rebuild Black Cat with A1/A428 flyovers/flyunders.  It should solve the traffic jams there but will cost a fortune, so I'm not counting on seeing it in my lifetime.

A1/A428 Black Cat to Caxton Gibbet is a live project, the DCO is submitted and examination by the Planning Inspectorate is underway and works on the ground start late next year (I'm working for same client team).

 

DCO page is here https://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/projects/eastern/a428-black-cat-to-caxton-gibbet-road-improvement-scheme/?ipcsection=exam for those within an interest 

[hayfield]

It seems if a vechial has been involved in an illegal activity in the UK the police can stop it and if needed impound it. 

 

Now we are not bound to EU laws, if a vechial has been used several times and repeatedly not paid why cannot we do the same. They are bound to obey our laws. As I said start doing it and word will get about and tolls will be paid

 

Stop looking at what we cannot do, but look at what we legally can do. Stopping the loop hole of the companies who rent the trailers out failing to pass on who is using it. If my car is caught speeding and I refuse to name the driver I am responsible as was my previous employer was when I drove their vans. The same rules should apply to foreign firms

[admiles]

12 minutes ago, hayfield said:

It seems if a vechial has been involved in an illegal activity in the UK the police can stop it and if needed impound it. 

 

Now we are not bound to EU laws, if a vechial has been used several times and repeatedly not paid why cannot we do the same. They are bound to obey our laws. As I said start doing it and word will get about and tolls will be paid

 

Stop looking at what we cannot do, but look at what we legally can do. Stopping the loop hole of the companies who rent the trailers out failing to pass on who is using it. If my car is caught speeding and I refuse to name the driver I am responsible as was my previous employer was when I drove their vans. The same rules should apply to foreign firms

 

Nothing to do with EU laws just practicalities.  The same rules do indeed apply to foreign firms the rub comes when trying to trace vehicles.  Legally there is very little to nothing that can be done. Anyway I and others have explained the issues, I wish you luck in "stopping the loophole".

 

 

[black and decker boy]

15 minutes ago, hayfield said:

It seems if a vechial has been involved in an illegal activity in the UK the police can stop it and if needed impound it. 

 

Now we are not bound to EU laws, if a vechial has been used several times and repeatedly not paid why cannot we do the same. They are bound to obey our laws. As I said start doing it and word will get about and tolls will be paid

 

Stop looking at what we cannot do, but look at what we legally can do. Stopping the loop hole of the companies who rent the trailers out failing to pass on who is using it. If my car is caught speeding and I refuse to name the driver I am responsible as was my previous employer was when I drove their vans. The same rules should apply to foreign firms

whilst I agree with you, our Police seem to struggle with stopping domestic vehicles with no tax, insurance, MOT and drivers with no licenses so getting them to crack down on foreign HGVs is highly unlikley.

 

Now we are not EU, can our Police even trace foreign plates back to a hire company \ registered owner?

[woodenhead]

What have foreign drivers breaking laws, Somalian 'Lorry drivers' avoiding the sea route and foreign owned trailers got to do with Panic buying?

 

Absolutely nothing.

[AY Mod]

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

An issue I foresee arising from this liberation of visas for Euro-lorryists [loads of Somalian lorry drivers just itching to avoid a sea crossing too!] is one of legal responsibility.

 

There's racist undertones there in my mind; can we please back away from such?

 

3 hours ago, alastairq said:

since everyone still wants their turkeys at Christmas.

 

Many people enjoy gammon at Christmas. There are alternatives.