The Night Mail

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, monkeysarefun said:

Starting in  WW1 there's been an unofficial "no d!ckheads" policy whereby if an officer is perceived as being too "officery" without first earning  respect he is quickly  pulled into line.

 

Anzacs were fully justified in this by the conduct of the Gallipoli campaign.

[monkeysarefun]

32 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Anzacs were fully justified in this by the conduct of the Gallipoli campaign.

 

 

 

"Trouble with the Australians"
In 1918 an average of 9 per 1,000 Australian soldiers in Europe resided in prison.
Among Canadians, New Zealanders and South Africans there was an average of 1.6 per 1,000 men behind bars.
Field-Marshall Douglas Haig was convinced this was due to the low standard of discipline among the Australian divisions.

Picture: Slovenly Australian Soldiers

 

 

It wasn't OUR war but they answered the call, all Australian troops up until Vietnam were volunteers and despite Haigs  attempts to get it changed, were not allowed to have sentence of death carried out on them.

 

"Take us or leave us, but if you want us  don't whinge if we don't salute you"*

 

 

*An account of an Australian privates exchange with a member of the British High command , 1917.

 

 

Edited April 30 by monkeysarefun

[Michael Hodgson]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

Unfortunately the British police and the  UK criminal justice system has been taken over by the biggest bunch of liberal wet wipes the world has ever known. 

There is no such thing as a justice system.  What we have got is a legal system. 

 

Justice is not at all systematic - it only happens if and when they get it right.  And if they reach the right conclusion in a reasonable length of time.  That applies both to the guilty getting off and to innocent people like all those submasters who've had their lives destroyed - all this time later nobody's even been charged with perverting the course of justice.

 

But the police can't prosecute, they have to pass the buck to the CPS who drop some of the cases.  That's if the higher-ups even let  a case go as far as the CPS.  The lawyers then confuse juries (when there is a jury).  Their objective is not to get a fair result in the interest  of victim vs accused and the public interest generally but rather to win against the other side of the case.  They call expert witnesses to say this villain's not an evil bastard, he just came from a broken home, the balance of his mind was disturbed so he's ill and needs treatment.  Even with a guilty verdict the pompous twerp wearing a ludicrous powdered wig isn't allowed the discretion to lock him up and throw away the key when that's what's warranted - he's constrained by sentencing guidelines.  And if somebody does end up in chokey, he won't have to finish doing his porridge.  He's just got to tell them he's caught religion and they'll let him out early to do it again.

 

2 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

(It appears I may have become a little agitated, for which I apologize.)

 

On the contrary.

[monkeysarefun]

 

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33 minutes ago, Michael Hodgson said:

Even with a guilty verdict the pompous twerp wearing a ludicrous powdered wig isn't allowed the discretion to lock him up and throw away the key when that's what's warranted - he's constrained by sentencing guidelines.  And if somebody does end up in chokey, he won't have to finish doing his porridge.

 

 

 

At some point I assume my ancestors got here from the UK, maybe transported in chains , exiled from Mother England  for 7 years due to a criminal act that sullied England so much - stealing a hankie or something?- that they were doomed to eke out an existence in this harsh barren land  as a punishment.

 

Please, when will our suffering here in this hell hole finally end?..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited April 30 by monkeysarefun

[Hroth]

35 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

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At some point I assume my ancestors got here from the UK, maybe transported in chains , exiled from Mother England  for 7 years due to a criminal act that sullied England so much - stealing a hankie or something?- that they were doomed to eke out an existence in this harsh barren land  as a punishment.

 

Please, when will our suffering here in this hell hole finally end?..

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Well, it was better than being executed for stealing a hankie, despite the importunate pigeons with yellow feathers on their heads...

 

[Happy Hippo]

3 hours ago, Dave Hunt said:

“Well, anyone who has been properly trained in the use of firearms when trying to stop and armed perpetrator will have been taught ‘double tap’ as the way to do it.”

 

Dave

I mentioned this to my younger brother when he was the Superintendent in charge of Specialist Operations in South Wales.  He had been a TA 'Monkey' (RMP) prior to joining the Police Force (as it was then).

 

He told me that his previous  military training kicked in so when he went on the police range for the first time, and told to fire two rounds at the target to his front, he double tapped.

 

He was told that his was not the way the police were taught to shoot and that in future, he was only to take deliberately aimed single shots.

 

That's one of the troubles when the rules of engagement  are made from the safety of an office by a lawyer with little or no experience of having fire returned.

[Michael Hodgson]

56 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

Well, it was better than being executed for stealing a hankie, despite the importunate pigeons with yellow feathers on their heads...

 

Not all of the convicts got quite that far.

There was a Bristol ship's captain who took a cargo of prisoners sentenced to "transportation" who fulfilled his contract by dumping them on Lundy Island (10 miles off the Devon coast), as it didn't say Australia - merely "overseas".

 

[GMKAT7]

Good evening folks,

 

Never mind the pigeon with the yellow headdress, what about the lizard with the jelly feet and the yellow, go-faster stripes on its legs?

 

Cheers, Nigel.

[Dave Hunt]

1 hour ago, Happy Hippo said:

I mentioned this to my younger brother when he was the Superintendent in charge of Specialist Operations in South Wales.  He had been a TA 'Monkey' (RMP) prior to joining the Police Force (as it was then).

 

He told me that his previous  military training kicked in so when he went on the police range for the first time, and told to fire two rounds at the target to his front, he double tapped.

 

He was told that his was not the way the police were taught to shoot and that in future, he was only to take deliberately aimed single shots.

 

That's one of the troubles when the rules of engagement  are made from the safety of an office by a lawyer with little or no experience of having fire returned.

 

Makes you want to weep doesn't it?

 

Dave

[Northmoor]

5 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

The UK has to be careful that, with the widespread ascent of (as HH put it) of "the biggest bunch of liberal wet wipes the world has ever known.  They are well known for making the perpetrator the victim and the victim(s) the perpetrator". the populace doesn't elect (or allow the takeover by) a Kim Jong Un act-alike strongman.

A good point well-made.  You only hear about the "liberal left wet-wipe human rights lawyers" (other terms may be available) when they stand against someone you don't support.  Usually when the Daily Wail doesn't support that person because they do seem to devote lots of time and energy writing about people they don't like.  Those lefty lawyers are often challenging the police, who we're accusing here of being too soft......

 

If you don't like those who challenge those they agree with, remember the warning from Pastor Martin Niemoller:

 

First they came for the Communists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Communist

Then they came for the Socialists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Socialist

Then they came for the trade unionists
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a trade unionist

Then they came for the Jews
And I did not speak out
Because I was not a Jew

Then they came for me
And there was no one left
To speak out for me

 

Do I agree with the "liberal left wet-wipe human rights lawyers"?  No, frequently not, but it's a price of a free society.  I'll take that; I've seen the alternative.

[polybear]

11 minutes ago, Dave Hunt said:

 

Makes you want to weep doesn't it?

 

Dave

 

Oh yes - the time taken between that first and second "deliberately aimed single shot" might just be enough for the target to shoot back - and it's not the Lawyer on the receiving end.

 

 

[Willie Whizz]

Certain newspapers fulminate from time to time about a shadowy organisation called “Common Purpose”, which provides “leadership training” to (among others) current and prospective high ranking officials in the civil service, public services such as the Police, the BBC and the Judiciary among others, and is described as a sort of left-leaning version of that old chestnut bunch of bad guys the Freemasons.
 

The allegation is that it is this group and its philosophies which has resulted in al the “wetness” issues alluded to earlier; and the extraordinary difficulty of the Government - any Government - to get their policies implemented unless the so- called ‘Blob’ approves. 

 

Of course, it may just be another Conspiracy Theory. Or it may not. Honestly, I have no idea and am generally no fan of fantasies as a mask for incompetence: I just find it interesting that the discussion of the organisation and the theory, even to debunk it, seems to be determinedly avoided by anyone who might be associated with supporting it. 

[iL Dottore]

53 minutes ago, polybear said:

 

Oh yes - the time taken between that first and second "deliberately aimed single shot" might just be enough for the target to shoot back - and it's not the Lawyer on the receiving end.

I’ve always been of the opinion that anyone that proposes a certain course of action (or in the context of this discussion a regulation or law) should not be immune to/protected from the consequences of that action/regulation/law.

 

So, to make up a two silly examples, if I - as a politician - (1) I pass a law requiring the national registration of all cake stocks, then the law should (not) be framed in such a way that my artisanal cake stocks don’t have to be registered, whilst mass produced cakes MUST be registered or else; (2) I pass a law that adds a 1250% surcharge to every tin of baked beans, (without) ensuring that my usual nightly bottle of rare vintage Dom Pérignon is zero rated (or even gets a subsidy!).

 

Unfortunately, in far too many countries, the politicians, the influential and the “movers and shakers” never experience the - how can I put it? - the “disadvantages” of their policies and decisions foisted on everybody else. 

Edited April 30 by iL Dottore

[bbishop]

I am horrified how this thread is developing.  The Hainault perpetrator may well have mental health issues and could possibly be a paranoid schizophrenic.  Some 50 years ago he would have been incarcerated in a mental hospital, drugged up to the eyeballs, but at least he wouldn't have been in a position to kill a child with a machete.  Instead our politicians decide it is cost effective to let him roam the streets with no checks on whether he takes his anti-psychotic medicine.  I am grateful he was Tasered, the thought of someone with mental health issues being shot dead is too awful to consider.

 

And I agree the Australian inspector was entitled to shoot in self-defense.

 

This case so echoes the Nottingham incident.

 

Remember that I am trained to be involved in these situations, not running towards danger, but available to provide first aid or take on a support role.

 

[SM42]

Finally some modelling activity. 

 

Well not much really

 

I tinned a bit of wire and the rail to attach it to,  but due to a rather weak ( borrowed)  soldering iron no  further progress in connecting the two items. 

 

At least I remembered the basics. 

Heat and cleanliness. 

 

It's been a while since I soldered anything 

 

Andy

Edited April 30 by SM42

[J. S. Bach]

That is something that I have to get back to. I used to be very good at hanging overhead for trolley (tram to yinz over there!) operation; my hands are now a bit shaky but I might still be able to do it. It is a little hard to see, but here is a sample that I put up for a friend about forty years ago:

 

EDIT: It is still up and functional except for one trolley wire hangar that needs to be re-hung.

EDIT #2: To correct some spelling errors

Edited April 30 by J. S. Bach
To add some information and To correct some spelling errors

[Happy Hippo]

1 hour ago, bbishop said:

.  I am grateful he was Tasered, the thought of someone with mental health issues being shot dead is too awful to consider.

 

Tell that to the parents of the 14 year old child who was hacked to death ,and the families of all those who were injured in the attack.

[Northmoor]

4 minutes ago, Happy Hippo said:

Tell that to the parents of the 14 year old child who was hacked to death ,and the families of all those who were injured in the attack.

They may be sympathetic, the families of the victims of the Westminster Bridge attacks certainly weren't cheering the shooting of the attacker.  The issue in Hainault wasn't that he was shot and not tasered, but that police couldn't get to the location and taser the attacker before he killed someone with a sword.  But I agree with @bbishop; there used to be secure facilities for these people but they were closed and the residents expected to live in the community, with a long list of justifications except for the one that really mattered: it saved a great deal of money.

 

Anyway, onto much less serious crime.  I wandered into my local Sainsburys earlier tonight to witness two people emptying the shelves of steaks and wandering out the door.  There was one person working in the whole shop (two out the back appeared once they'd been told the alarm was going off because they actually had been robbed) and while she wasn't aware until I told her, understandably staff don't intervene.  Recovering a few quids' worth of produce isn't worth being punched or worse.  It was obvious what was happening as soon as I walked in the door, so I deliberately stood in the doorway making it pretty obvious I was watching them leave and noted the details of the car they got into.  So, there's cheap sirloin steak for sale at a car boot somewhere near here tomorrow........

[monkeysarefun]

3 hours ago, GMKAT7 said:

Good evening folks,

 

Never mind the pigeon with the yellow headdress, what about the lizard with the jelly feet and the yellow, go-faster stripes on its legs?

 

Cheers, Nigel.

its actually a frog that was on my front porch!  ( Probably not venomous)

[monkeysarefun]

3 hours ago, bbishop said:

I am horrified how this thread is developing.  The Hainault perpetrator may well have mental health issues and could possibly be a paranoid schizophrenic.

Unfortunately a large proportion of those shot by police including the person in the  Bondi incident had a history of mental issues. Theres obviously also a huge number of incidents involving the mentally disturbed where the police do not need to use their firearm but too often the end scene is a crazed individual armed with a knife or other weapon threatening the police where even tasering has been insufficient to  bring them down.

 

"Suicide by cop" where an individual deliberately places police in a situation where they have no choice but to shoot is also a phenomenon in several incidents here.

 

After shooting the perpetrator Inspector Amy Scott performed CPR on him for several minutes but he  was too dead and wasn't coming back.

Edited April 30 by monkeysarefun

[J. S. Bach]

Night Owl from the Piedmont.

[AndyID]

5 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

its actually a frog that was on my front porch!  ( Probably not venomous)

I wouldn't trust it anyway 😂

[AndyID]

The discussion on the UK landscape is interesting. Prior to leaving around forty years ago I considered myself a good bit right of center. But now in the US I find myself a good bit left of center.

 

I suppose it's all relative.

[jjb1970]

13 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

If there was money to be made, promotions to be had and stellar careers to forge by cleaving to  draconian "kill 'em all, let God sort 'em out" policies, most of the current bunch of "soppy liberals" (other terms are available) would would commit such an about-volte-face  and start meeting out such punishments as to make "Hanging Judge" Jeffreys say "whoah, slow down a bit"....

 

This has been shown in many places where often the people who have found it easiest to adjust and switch sides to the new regime were the most hard core servants of the last one. A related phenomenon is that the most evil crimes have often been perpetrated by ordinary people 'just doing a job' who in slightly different circumstances would have had entirely uneventful lives doing a humdrum job.

[polybear]

8 hours ago, iL Dottore said:

So, to make up a two silly examples, if I - as a politician - (1) I pass a law requiring the national registration of all cake stocks, then the law should (not) be framed in such a way that my artisanal cake stocks don’t have to be registered, whilst mass produced cakes MUST be registered

 

Bear already knows what Cake iD has got - and how much - and where.  So does Big H.

 

6 hours ago, Happy Hippo said:

Tell that to the parents of the 14 year old child who was hacked to death ,and the families of all those who were injured in the attack.

 

And do you really trust the so-called "Experts" when they declare someone is no longer a threat to the community and is safe to be released?  Let's face it, they've not got the best track record.

 

In the news - although no mention of trick cyclists is mentioned:

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-68916371

 

6 hours ago, monkeysarefun said:

its actually a frog that was on my front porch!  ( Probably not venomous)

 

PROBABLY??

 

1 hour ago, AndyID said:

The discussion on the UK landscape is interesting. Prior to leaving around forty years ago I considered myself a good bit right of center. But now in the US I find myself a good bit left of center.

 

I suppose it's all relative.

 

 You put your left leg in, your left leg out, in, out, in, out, shake it all about.....