Etched coach kits and gearbox - Advice on a couple of problems

[lapford34102]

Hi,

Got to the point where I'm digging out projects from the Shelf Of Doom and seeing if I can complete them but run into a couple of issues that someone might be able to help with.

 

1/ Mallard kit - solebars have tabs to fit into slots on bottom folded up edge of sides. The slots are too narrow.  Managed to widen one after a lot of bodging, scraping and minor trauma so any thoughts on an easier way  ? Started this last century.....!

2/ Roxey kit - Unstarted, tried soldering on the bolsters but solder didn't flow and just "clumped up"  Have an Antex 25w, cored solder plus have Carr's red and some sort of plumbers flux. So iron not man enough, flux and/or solder wrong, something else.. ?

3/ Branchlines gearbox - seem to have broken one of the tabs on the worm grubscrew - thoughts ? Also anyone with more experience of these things - mine is virtually zero - should the  idler gear wheel be free floating or have thrust ewashers either side ?

 

Thanks in advance.

Stu

 

 

 

[Gordon A]

I ease open etched slots with the pointed end of a scalpel blade by gently inserting and twisting. DONE WITH CARE and eye protection. Occasionally I have used a slotting file.

 

How clean is the brass you are trying to solder?

How clean is the tip of your soldering iron?

 

What temperature solder are you using? I tend to use 145 degree solder from Eileen's Emporium.

Does the iron completely melt the solder? If not either the solder is too high a temperature or the element is on its way out.

 

Ring Branchlines (Westbury) they are very helpful and may be able to sell you a new grub screw.

 

Gordon A

[Bucoops]

For etched kits a 40w iron would be better I think.

[DLT]

I agree with all the above. 

 

Etched slots can be successfully scraped out, tabs can be thinned down a bit, and have their ends shortened and/or rounded off.  Better this way than the slots being too big.

 

A more powerful soldering iron needed for brass kits, and keep the 25w for your wiring.  Use of varying temperature solders is good for construction, use your highest temp solder for main construction, and add details with the lower temp.  For flux I use old-fashioned "Fluxite" paste:  Fluxite   for brass, nickel-silver, phos-bronze, etc.  I only use a liquid flux on whitemetal.

 

Best of luck,

Dave.

 

[Brassey]

I use an 18w iron, 145 solder and Carrs Green Label or similar for etched kits brass and nickel solver.  The heat from a higher powered iron can cause heat distortion in the parts.  I occasionally use 188 solder for something that could easily drop off or would be under stress such as on a chassis.  70 degree lowmelt for attaching whitemetal and filling gaps with Yellow label or similar flux.

 

Everything is burnished with a fibre pencil before soldering

[micklner]

What are the Bolsters made off, if whitemetal you need to tin the brass with 145 deg solder first.

 

I use a 25 watt iron for 99% of my soldering without any problems. I also use O gauge safety flux, which works well without the horrid frumes from Carrs fluxes ,which I would think will  be dangerous without wearing a mask.

 

Mke sure the Iron is a operating temperature before soldering.

[Mark]

19 hours ago, lapford34102 said:

Hi,

Got to the point where I'm digging out projects from the Shelf Of Doom and seeing if I can complete them but run into a couple of issues that someone might be able to help with.

 

1/ Mallard kit - solebars have tabs to fit into slots on bottom folded up edge of sides. The slots are too narrow.  Managed to widen one after a lot of bodging, scraping and minor trauma so any thoughts on an easier way  ? Started this last century.....!

2/ Roxey kit - Unstarted, tried soldering on the bolsters but solder didn't flow and just "clumped up"  Have an Antex 25w, cored solder plus have Carr's red and some sort of plumbers flux. So iron not man enough, flux and/or solder wrong, something else.. ?

3/ Branchlines gearbox - seem to have broken one of the tabs on the worm grubscrew - thoughts ? Also anyone with more experience of these things - mine is virtually zero - should the  idler gear wheel be free floating or have thrust ewashers either side ?

 

Thanks in advance.

Stu

 

 

 

I use a set of broaches for opening under sized slots. As long as they are through etched just push the broach through and gently rotate it and it will work it’s way along the slot. This puts minimal force on the metal so you don’t risk distorting it.

 

for soldering cleanliness is critical but if your solder clumped up it suggest you don’t have enough heat. You could tin the parts first but if the bolster is white metal and you are soldering it to brass then try Carr’s 100 degree solder which bonds to both materials. If you apply the heat to the brass and let the solder flow round the white metal. Put plenty of flux around the joint. You won’t melt the white metal as long as you can hear the flux boiling. When that stops take the heat away.

 

Matk

[lapford34102]

Hi, Thanks to everyone. Looks as if I have to look at a couple of ways forward. Think I have a very old 40w iron still in the garage - some black handled thing from the 60's with the tip help in with a split pin. If still working can try that on some scrap and see how it goes.

I've also got to get some stuff from H+A models (usual disclaimer) and I know they do various Carrs solder so I'll treat myself - it's only money after all....! - and have a try with that.

 

I'll put an update on when I've something worth showing :-)

Thanks again Stu

[jonhall]

Stu, 

 

If Paul manages to hold an in person Lyddrail next year I'll very happily do some consultancy/training!

 

I'd use Carrs Green label flux on brass, resin cored solder isn't usually recommended (although I use it quite happily) and cleanliness is vital - I HATE fibreglass pencils for the fibres they shed, so usually use a 'garryflex' abrasive block (like a track rubber) to clean everything to a shine. For 4mm a 20W Antex should be enough - I use a small brass 'suede' brush to clean the tip - particularly when there is a build up of black gunk from the resin cored flux.

 

Wash the parts with water and an old toothbrush before you put them away between sessions, it will reduce the corrosion caused by the flux.

 

Jon

 

[lapford34102]

Hi Jon,

Appreciate the offer but you realise you've might just handed me a get out of jail free card valid for 12 months!

I'll take note of your and everyone else's advice, get an order off and go from there.

Cheers

Stu

[jonhall]

The other thing I meant to ask is how old is the solder? - it does oxidise like most metals, and the oxides just form slag, I tend to wrap my big rolls of solder with clingfilm, so less is exposed to air - no idea if this is effective yet, I'm still working through my grandfathers collection - it should last many decades!

 

Jon

[Brassey]

I’m still using solder I bought in Tandy in the 80’s. still going strong. I also have some Eames “40” flux unopened of the same vintage. 44p in Hamblings

[hayfield]

I lost a grub screw to a High Level gear, I asked Chris if I could buy a few. As your kit is a Branchlines go back to them, explain your problem and aske if you could buy one and a couple of spares. Or contact Markits they sell them

 

I am like others and spend hours on my knees looking for dropped parts, firstly work on a large plastic tray, secondly keep a pack of spares (I bought 100 screws for Mashima motors for a few £'s from china M1.4 pan head 2 mm long. There is one trader charging £5 for half a dozen

 

 

[DLT]

17 hours ago, hayfield said:

I am like others and spend hours on my knees looking for dropped parts,

 

And I usually find the bit I lost LAST time, and replaced...

[lapford34102]

On 17/08/2020 at 18:52, jonhall said:

 

The other thing I meant to ask is how old is the solder? - it does oxidise like most metals, and the oxides just form slag, I tend to wrap my big rolls of solder with clingfilm, so less is exposed to air - no idea if this is effective yet, I'm still working through my grandfathers collection - it should last many decades!

Sorry, just realised there were more posts. Jon, the solders I have may not be that old but amongst them do have a big reel of Brazilian made stuff - have no idea where I acquired that or what's in for that matter but seems to work well. I'll need to get a more rigorous regime for but cleaning tips I have re-purposed the suede brush so if I go off-air look under the patio !

John, thanks for that, something else for the shopping list. I do have a safe working area, a very old wooden dissection tray but sometimes things seem to defy physics!

Cheers

Stu

 

[jonhall]

Stu, did you ever build your etched kits?

 

Jon

[kevinlms]

On 15/08/2020 at 20:12, lapford34102 said:

Hi,

Got to the point where I'm digging out projects from the Shelf Of Doom and seeing if I can complete them but run into a couple of issues that someone might be able to help with.

 

 

2/ Roxey kit - Unstarted, tried soldering on the bolsters but solder didn't flow and just "clumped up"  Have an Antex 25w, cored solder plus have Carr's red and some sort of plumbers flux. So iron not man enough, flux and/or solder wrong, something else.. ?

 

 

 

 

You've probably already solved the soldering issues, but the cored solder needs to be clean too. If the outside surface is dull, I clean it by taking 1/2 a metre or so off the roll. Then with some kitchen paper, draw the solder through and a lot of grey stuff will come off. I find the solder works better once you have got rid of the oxide - as that's what it is.

[lapford34102]

11 hours ago, jonhall said:

Stu, did you ever build your etched kits?

Hi Jon,

 

Going to plead the 5th amendment and incipient senility on this one but the bald answer is NO :-(

 

Got caught up in other things I expect and if I look probably find they've been plonked in the garage crate of doom....

 

Cheers

Stu

 

 

 

[jonhall]

Well if you wanted to dig one out before Lydd the offer of consultancy  still stands.

 

Jon

[Chas Levin]

On 17/08/2020 at 21:00, hayfield said:

I lost a grub screw to a High Level gear, I asked Chris if I could buy a few. As your kit is a Branchlines go back to them, explain your problem and aske if you could buy one and a couple of spares. Or contact Markits they sell them

 

I am like others and spend hours on my knees looking for dropped parts, firstly work on a large plastic tray, secondly keep a pack of spares (I bought 100 screws for Mashima motors for a few £'s from china M1.4 pan head 2 mm long. There is one trader charging £5 for half a dozen

 

 

 

Just a thought on grubscrews: you probably know this already but all grub screws are not the same so you do need to know the tpi (thread per inch) or exact size of the broken one so going back to Branchlines is perhaps the best idea. Although HL or Markits can provide them too, if they use a different size or pitch you risk stripping the thread...

[Camperdown]

Aliexpress is your source of metric, replacement grub screws (usually listed as set screws).  Lots of sizes and types, so you do need to know the length, thread type, and style (slotted or socket cap, round end or pointed) of the one that's broken.  Either that, or spend a fiver on a selection box of different sizes.

[Bucoops]

On the (thankfully) odd occasion I've found the need to buy grub screws I've always hunted out "Unbrako" branded ones. Does exactly what it says on the box which is useful for something that if you strip the head off can be a pig to remove.

[cctransuk]

26 minutes ago, Bucoops said:

On the (thankfully) odd occasion I've found the need to buy grub screws I've always hunted out "Unbrako" branded ones. Does exactly what it says on the box which is useful for something that if you strip the head off can be a pig to remove.

 

Unfortunately, it would appear that Unbrako do nothing smaller than M3 in set screws - a little large for our gearboxes.

 

CJI.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, cctransuk said:

 

Unfortunately, it would appear that Unbrako do nothing smaller than M3 in set screws - a little large for our gearboxes.

 

CJI.

 

Oh :( They have cut their range down then.

 

edit: Oh yes. Just cap heads in the smaller sizes now. That's pants to coin a phrase. 

Edited June 16, 2023 by Bucoops

[roythebus1]

i too have a box of doom of kits started way back in the 1960s that are still far from complete, or have been built and dismantled a few times since then, the oldest being a Wills Finecast P class, then a couple of wills 02s...

 

Lost parts are a bugbear for completing some of the kits!.