Hornby Railways Catalogue and Box Art - An Advent Calendar Lookback

[Hroth]

10 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Well they haven't made any Wagon Lits Sleeping Cars yet....

 

 

 

 

 

Indeed...   And they'd go nicely with the Class 71 too.

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Ah. Someone has seen through my cunning plan of resurrecting the idea....   

 

I would buy a set. I could kick myself for not getting them when Model Rail was selling the MARC Models kit version for a reasonable price a few years ago. They were about £30 each ISTR. Then the price shot up to something like £100 each.

 

Maybe if the Coronation Scot is a success then we might get more luxury trains. But I think it's best to keep the wishlisting for another time.

[Nearholmer]

6 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

Well they haven't made any Wagon Lits Sleeping Cars yet....

I am pretty sure the range included some, or rather ordinary pullmans painted blue and pretending to be some, in 1963-ish. I’m sure I’ve seen a trade announcement in RM, although not the actual model. [Yes, R625, 1963-65]

 

 

Today’s painting is a good one, as is the 2018 one.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Legend]

5 hours ago, JaymzHatstand said:

That's true! I'm surprised that wasn't a major issue, knowing how excited people get nowadays over the simplest of things!

 

Cheers

 

J

if I remember correctly it was at the time . Of course such issues get swept away with the news of new introductions 

[Legend]

7 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Day 14

Another scene reminiscent of Enid Blyton stories - two children captivated by the express trains of the 1930s; here we have an LMS Jubilee hauling an express train while a boy and a girl (possibly related to one another in some way) wave by to the driver and the fireman.

 

This is something that you would normally see on picture postcards or railway paintings. It's almost like a step-back in time, but what is the identity of the LMS Jubilee Class? It's a mystery like the Mona Lisa smile (some say it's her contemplating the irony of her situation, I'll be contemplating on the name and number of the locomotive that is totally hard to make out). Normally, smoke on a steam locomotive is white or grey but here, it's black like soot. The locomotive is in need of cleaning out! How can you totally neglect something like that? It could make people's laundry dirty or even suffocate them! That's what might happen to those two children - this image is a metaphor for the phrase; "Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!" Yeah, those kids are gonna get it, alright - a good dousing of sooth and coughing fits!

 

Just when you think they would introduce the Jubilee model into their range, well...they didn't. Only Mainline did what Hornby didn't. That was before Sega did what Nintendon't, introducing more detailed and modern up-to-date loco-drive models! I know because I had those in my collection for years...and sold them off years later for extra money. Oh, well - money can't buy memories, but at least well have something to remember, I suppose.

 

N.B: Thanks very much to those who enjoy and agree with my thoughts and opinions on the previous piece of artwork and special thanks as always to Ruffnut Thornston for sharing memories as well as images of the Lord Westwood locomotive (I agree that it would make a nice Hogwarts Express locomotive) and Steamport Southport, thanks for sharing memories here as well! Finally, thanks to Nearholmer for sharing memories and thoughts as well as images here in this thread, I will be back with another analysis on some more Hornby Railways artwork (possibly the one Legend has shared on this thread, good on you, matey boy)! See you tomorrow!

 Ah yes. Possibly my favourite Hornby / Tri-ang  catalogue of all time .  1974. ( 1980 , 1967, 1973 drives it close)

 

Strange , as pointed out there was no Jubilee in the catalogue , was I disappointed , no . I suppose Hornbys Cuneo pictures had some  history of not relating to anything in catalogue , the 1970 Jubilee and Castle for instance or the 72 Co-Bo .   Yet the following year I was disappointed because of the lack of appearance of models in the cover , I suppose these were line drawings and not a Cuneo picture , maybe that was the difference .

 

New Type face Hornby Railways only lasted a few years . It was the time that locos were attractively presented in red box and black insert with line drawing on . I remember seeing lines of them on the shelves at John Menzies Buchanan St Glasgow , who in these days had a large toy dept and a very good Hornby section . You’d struggle to find Hornby anywhere in the centre of Glasgow now - just Hamleys . 
 

What was exciting to me was not the new models (47 and 2mt) but the ideas of new layouts in the catalogue . Promised in the third edition of the track plans book which didn’t turn up until. 1975 . Spent hours figuring out what line went where , so this catalogue was truly inspirational and showed the entire range well in layout dioramas . 

[Brit70053]

Thanks to Steamport Southport for identifying the Jubilee pictured climbing Lickey. I was bought a print of that painting many years ago and until now, thought I'd never know the loco's name or number, which just can't be distinguished on the painting. Being a print which probably sold in thousands from general dealers there are no clues on the reverse or elsewhere. Now at last I know, thank you.

 

Regards,

 

               John

 

[No Decorum]

10 hours ago, LNWR18901910 said:

Day 14

Another scene reminiscent of Enid Blyton stories - two children captivated by the express trains of the 1930s; here we have an LMS Jubilee hauling an express train while a boy and a girl (possibly related to one another in some way) wave by to the driver and the fireman.

 

This is something that you would normally see on picture postcards or railway paintings. It's almost like a step-back in time, but what is the identity of the LMS Jubilee Class? It's a mystery like the Mona Lisa smile (some say it's her contemplating the irony of her situation, I'll be contemplating on the name and number of the locomotive that is totally hard to make out). Normally, smoke on a steam locomotive is white or grey but here, it's black like soot. The locomotive is in need of cleaning out! How can you totally neglect something like that? It could make people's laundry dirty or even suffocate them! That's what might happen to those two children - this image is a metaphor for the phrase; "Be careful what you ask for, you just might get it!" Yeah, those kids are gonna get it, alright - a good dousing of sooth and coughing fits!

 

Just when you think they would introduce the Jubilee model into their range, well...they didn't. Only Mainline did what Hornby didn't. That was before Sega did what Nintendon't, introducing more detailed and modern up-to-date loco-drive models! I know because I had those in my collection for years...and sold them off years later for extra money. Oh, well - money can't buy memories, but at least well have something to remember, I suppose.

 

N.B: Thanks very much to those who enjoy and agree with my thoughts and opinions on the previous piece of artwork and special thanks as always to Ruffnut Thornston for sharing memories as well as images of the Lord Westwood locomotive (I agree that it would make a nice Hogwarts Express locomotive) and Steamport Southport, thanks for sharing memories here as well! Finally, thanks to Nearholmer for sharing memories and thoughts as well as images here in this thread, I will be back with another analysis on some more Hornby Railways artwork (possibly the one Legend has shared on this thread, good on you, matey boy)! See you tomorrow!

I had a large, framed print of that hanging over my fireplace for many years. I had visitors crowding round it trying to find the mouse. If my memory serves me correctly, Terry Essery wrote a thrilling account of firing Galatea when the crew was trying to make up time regardless of coal consumption. Galatea was putting out so much power that she lifted the train clear of the buffers of the banker. A distinct bump was felt on the footplate when the banker managed to catch up and make contact again.

[BernardTPM]

For the 1970s a pretty good year (though before 1975's mass extinction event). Two important new introductions were shown in pre-production form:

 

 

The Class 47. The first* 'Silver Seal' diesel and, in early form, with a nice diecast metal chassis. The cab shape, particularly below the windows, was improved for the actual production model. Only some 12 years after they first appeared!

 

 

The new scale-length Pullman, though the mock-up here is a diced and spliced, stretched Tri-ang Pullman with the distinctive 'Brighton Belle' features (oval windows in the end, slight cant from waist level to roof). The final model was a decent 1928 'Queen of Scots' pattern Parlour First which is still in production as part of the Railroad range some 46 years later.

 

* only, I think, with the Silver Seal branding.

 

[Legend]

Heres a few more from the catalogue , including the layout on page 2 . Completely unprototypical but good fun . I remember  making one like it . 

[BernardTPM]

At that date the featured layouts still made extensive use of the MINIX 4mm cars and Model Land figure sets. Neither were available separately by that date, though the Tri-ang Railways originated figures were being sold as an unpainted set.

The Pola building kits (most of which had been in the Playcraft Railways range a decade before) were now being used for the backgrounds instead of the Model Land ones previously used.

[Steamport Southport]

Regarding Hornby not making a Jubilee at the time. Thankfully they didn't.

 

It probably would have been rubbish like Sir Dinadan and we almost certainly wouldn't have got the Mainline version.

 

Sir Dinadan, the worst model Hornby has made post 1960s? Probably.

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/64768/hornby_r154_king_arthur_class_n15_4_6_0_sir_dinadan_795_in_sr_green/stockdetail.aspx

 

It sort off looks like a King Arthur. But not good enough for the mid to late 1970s. It does have charm I suppose. Definitely in the category of "must try harder".

 

Only lasted three years in the catalogue then disappeared without trace.

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

Apart from being made of luminous green plastic, what is it that is so offensive about it? I can what it’s meant to be.
 

At the time, “everyone” had fun building eight-wheel tenders, repainting and renaming it. Some even re-badged it as an S15.

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Nearholmer

[Legend]

19 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

Regarding Hornby not making a Jubilee at the time. Thankfully they didn't.

 

It probably would have been rubbish like Sir Dinadan and we almost certainly wouldn't have got the Mainline version.

 

Sir Dinadan, the worst model Hornby has made post 1960s? Probably.

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/64768/hornby_r154_king_arthur_class_n15_4_6_0_sir_dinadan_795_in_sr_green/stockdetail.aspx

 

It sort off looks like a King Arthur. But not good enough for the mid to late 1970s. It does have charm I suppose. Definitely in the category of "must try harder".

 

Only lasted three years in the catalogue then disappeared without trace.

 

 

Jason

  Yeah . I always view the Sir Dinadan , J83 and the reintroduced diesel shunter from 1976 as being the last of an era where Hornby thought they could" get away with it" . When Mainline and Airfix were announced in 1976, although not arriving until 1977, I think they finally realised they would need to up their game .  To me the most stark contrast is between the J83 and Mainlines J72 introduced one year apart but poles apart in decoration and detail  and from memory about the same price .   They did up their game though producing  the 25 in 1977 , which I still think is a pretty good representation. 

 

Interestingly if they had produced a Jubilee it would almost certainly have been based on the tender powered black 5 , dating from 1973/74 

Edited December 14, 2020 by Legend

[Steamport Southport]

3 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

Apart from being made of luminous green plastic, what is it that is so offensive about it? I can what it’s meant to be.
 

At the time, “everyone” had fun building eight-wheel tenders, repainting and renaming it. Some even re-badged it as an S15.

 

 

 

The days of things looking a bit like what they are meant to be were long gone I'm afraid. Kids growing up in the 1970s weren't going to put up with garbage like that.

 

One of those, Airfix Castle, Mainline Jubilee or a Millenium Falcon? That's what they were competing with. Computer games were on the horizon.

 

Look at the state of the valve gear, wheels, tender, etc.

 

Mainline were making things like this at the time.

 

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/70568/mainline_37_053main_ln_class_4mt_4_6_0_75001_in_br_green_pre_owned_like_new/stockdetail.aspx

With models like this in the pipe line.

 

Jason

[BernardTPM]

29 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

At the time, “everyone” had fun building eight-wheel tenders, repainting and renaming it. Some even re-badged it as an S15.

Side-on with those size wheels it does look more like a later build S15 than an Arthur. I'm sure it would look better painted black too.

[Nearholmer]

20 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

The days of things looking a bit like what they are meant to be were long gone I'm afraid. Kids growing up in the 1970s weren't going to put up with garbage like that.

 

I was more than half teasing.

 

Kids, IMO, tend to see whatever they see as the norm, so this sort of thing would probably have been fine as far as the traditional pester-buyer, a 12yo boy, was concerned, until after something better came along. The ones who were crying-out for better were those who had become "modellers" already, teenagers with razor-saws and ambitions, and their adult mentors.

 

TBH, this really was a very bad period for what I still tend to call Triang, because they were terribly stuck in the mindset of selling to 12yo boys and their indulgent dads, and hadn't got to grips with the idea that the future lay with grown-ups buying for themselves.

 

I had a hack at the J83 about this time, scale-type wheels, and an attempt to bring it up to 'model' standard cosmetically, and it was only when you got into that it became apparent just how far off-target the basic product was for that purpose. The Mainline J72 genuinely was a  scale model.

 

Incidentally, nobody has mentioned Wrenn yet, have they? I bring that up, because despite their 15+ year old design standards, the locos were still looked-upon as objects of desire at this period, more I think for the quality of the mechanism and the overall "engineering" feel. Bloomin' expensive though - I always fancied "Barnstaple", but not only did it cost a fair sum, it needed a big layout, so I settled for a 350hp shunter and a lot of milk tankers, and a small layout based on a creamery.

 

Definitely a "watershed" period, when "toy train sets for boys" gave way to "model trains for men".

[Legend]

52 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

The days of things looking a bit like what they are meant to be were long gone I'm afraid. Kids growing up in the 1970s weren't going to put up with garbage like that.

 

One of those, Airfix Castle, Mainline Jubilee or a Millenium Falcon? That's what they were competing with. Computer games were on the horizon.

 

Look at the state of the valve gear, wheels, tender, etc.

 

Mainline were making things like this at the time.

 

 

 

https://www.hattons.co.uk/70568/mainline_37_053main_ln_class_4mt_4_6_0_75001_in_br_green_pre_owned_like_new/stockdetail.aspx

With models like this in the pipe line.

 

Jason

 I remember the 79 Mainline catalogue which had the Crimson Jubilee on front cover and thinking wow ! I don't think it came out till 1980 but I received one as a present then . For me one of the telling things was the lining on the tender . On the Jubilee it was correct with black edging and yellow/ straw lining , on a Hornby Duchess at the time the yellow and black were inset with red either side because they lacked the printing technique or didnt think it was worthwhile changing  .  The only issue with Mainline were the mechanisms , but that was significant!  Also wheel treads too thick .  Having said that their wagons were superb and don't look out of place today . I still run lots of Mainline wagons . Hornbys were still 2mm too high and looked toylike . I think it really had to wait until the 90s before their wagons approached anything like the finesse Mainline produced 15-20 years earlier.  Anyway we digress

[Steamport Southport]

18 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

 

I was more than half teasing.

 

Kids, IMO, tend to see whatever they see as the norm, so this sort of thing would probably have been fine as far as the traditional pester-buyer, a 12yo boy, was concerned, until after something better came along. The ones who were crying-out for better were those who had become "modellers" already, teenagers with razor-saws and ambitions, and their adult mentors.

 

TBH, this really was a very bad period for what I still tend to call Triang, because they were terribly stuck in the mindset of selling to 12yo boys and their indulgent dads, and hadn't got to grips with the idea that the future lay with grown-ups buying for themselves.

 

I had a hack at the J83 about this time, scale-type wheels, and an attempt to bring it up to 'model' standard cosmetically, and it was only when you got into that it became apparent just how far off-target the basic product was for that purpose. The Mainline J72 genuinely was a  scale model.

 

Incidentally, nobody has mentioned Wrenn yet, have they? I bring that up, because despite their 15+ year old design standards, the locos were still looked-upon as objects of desire at this period, more I think for the quality of the mechanism and the overall "engineering" feel. Bloomin' expensive though - I always fancied "Barnstaple", but not only did it cost a fair sum, it needed a big layout, so I settled for a 350hp shunter and a lot of milk tankers, and a small layout based on a creamery.

 

Definitely a "watershed" period, when "toy train sets for boys" gave way to "model trains for men".

 

Ah. Wrenn.

 

Expensive toys for middle aged blokes to collect. Even as an eight year old I could see they were rubbish compared to the new models on the shelves. £50 for a brightly coloured R1 when the Airfix 14XX was about a fiver.

 

Now many of them are virtually worthless as all those collections are flooding the market as the collectors are now of a certain age (or not). Work it out, a fifty year old in the 1970s is now in his 90s.

 

So unless you've got something rare and in perfect condition, they aren't quite worth the fortune that the collectors thought they were going to be.

 

Prices on here are eye watering. I wonder how many are sold at those prices compared with all the mint/boxed Pullmans I see at exhibitions for a tenner.

 

https://wrennmodelrailways.com/wrenn-locomotives.html?limit=all

 

https://wrennmodelrailways.com/wrenn-rolling-stock/pullman-cars-and-standard-passenger-coaches/pullman-brown-cream.html

 

Jason

[Hroth]

In the interest of bringing things back to Triangness, how about looking at playability?

 

 

The ore car could be run up a ramp and dump its load of "mineral" (as described in the catalogue), into or onto something, the poor giraffe could be fiendishly run into low bridges and the Turbo car...  Well, thats best left to the imagination!

 

(all from the Triang Model Railways  website)

 

 

 

[Steamport Southport]

Mention of the J83 reminds me of how short it's time was in the catalogue as well. Another one that only lasted three years. They eventually replaced it with the J52 (J13 in GNR condition).

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_year_details.asp?itemyearid=71

 

They did dust it off for a reissue a few years ago with the newer chassis and a bit of an upgrade.

 

http://www.hornbyguide.com/item_details.asp?itemid=2204

 

 

I won't mention the Ivatt. Also not very good.

 

 

Jason

[Legend]

I've been buying some Wrenn over the last few years , but in my case its models I wanted as a boy but they were too expensive . They quite often featured as Triang Wrenn in the catalogue up to 1972 and were seen as part of layout dioramas . Also they were very much part of the exhibition scene in the 70s .  So I've got City of Glasgow  in early BR Blue , Windsor Castle in experimental blue and a completely un authentic 4MT in LMS red . I know the Duchess wheels are too small . The Castle  isn't too bad if you ignore the motor in the cab ! . But I just like the models  . I've never bought a model as an investment

Edited December 14, 2020 by Legend

[Steamport Southport]

6 minutes ago, Legend said:

I've been buying some Wrenn over the last few years , but in my case its models I wanted as a boy but they were too expensive . Also they quite often featured as Triang Wrenn in the catalogue up to 1972 and were seen as part of layout dioramas . Also they were very much part of the exhibition scene in the 70s .  So I've got City of Glasgow  in early BR Blue , Windsor Castle in experimental blue and a completely un authentic 4MT in LMS red . I know the Duchess wheels are too small . The Castle  isn't too bad if you ignore the motor in the cab ! . But I just like the models  . I've never bought a model as an investment

 

Quite a few did though. Those collectors that buy things mint and never come out of the box. Because the original HD versions were creeping up in value they thought they would be worth a fortune in the future. Some are. But the majority haven't held their value quite as well as they thought. The HD stuff in mint condition is worth money as it was played with so finding perfect models is rare.

 

For the majority though I think it was that idea of buying things you couldn't afford as a child. We all do it. But those tend to be used.

 

I'm with James May on this. Play with them. That's what they were made for. I bet that he got the Evening Star box that he threw in the bin back after the camera stopped rolling though....  

 

 

Jason

[Nearholmer]

Hard-core Wrenn collecting is the biggest souffle of nonsense in model railways, IMO, but if you approach the models for what they are, late-production Hornby Dublo, and if you "get" coarse-scale, the not-too-silly-livery ones are great, provided they aren't "collector priced". I bought a 350hp shunter and a EE 1000hp last year, both looked brand-new, because the original HD versions of those two had design faults, which Wrenn corrected. Of course, if coarse-scale holds no appeal to you, then they are simply outmoded and inaccurate.

 

Whereas Lionel-derived giraffe cars, missile launchers, exploding boxcars etc ....... brilliant fun!

[Legend]

1 minute ago, Nearholmer said:

Hard-core Wrenn collecting is the biggest souffle of nonsense in model railways, IMO, but if you approach the models for what they are, late-production Hornby Dublo, and if you "get" coarse-scale, the not-too-silly-livery ones are great, provided they aren't "collector priced". I bought a 350hp shunter and a EE 1000hp last year, both looked brand-new, because the original HD versions of those two had design faults, which Wrenn corrected. Of course, if coarse-scale holds no appeal to you, then they are simply outmoded and inaccurate.

 

Whereas Lionel-derived giraffe cars, missile launchers, exploding boxcars etc ....... brilliant fun!

 

I think that is the essence of it Nearholmer . I think even then we knew there were compromises and the locos weren't that accurate but we had fun . And these catalogues are all about having fun , as is this thread , which you will gather I'm thoroughly enjoying .  Yes I have the latest models with all the best detail , but are they any more fun?  

[Steamport Southport]

I was trying to find a link to the James May programme, but the only link I could find is a bit dodgy copyright wise so i won't post it.

 

It wasn't Toy Stories, it's called James May's Top Toys. Normally comes up on Dave or Yesterday at Christmas.

 

Worth a watch if you haven't seen it.

 

 

 

Jason