WR ‘15XX’ 0-6-0PT - 00 Gauge

[RapidoCorbs]

On 22/02/2024 at 12:31, Jim104 said:

Can someone on here please explain to me with images if possible on how to go about replacing the spring plunger pickups on this model?

They appear behind the driving wheels in the chassis, how do you get to them and are they soldered with a wire attached?

t hanks in advance….

 

 

 

12 hours ago, stevemmm said:

Rapido should help here, I have asked them for this info since October but no luck.  In desperation over Christmas I put my brain surgeon hat on and unclipped the brake rigging and put to one side.  Then removed the keeper plate and carefully dropped the wheels slightly out so no rods got bent.  This allows access to the plungers which are plastic tubes 2.4mm diameter and 5.5mm long, they contain a tiny spring 1.5mm diameter which fails.  The spring acts on two nipples out of each end, like the things the ladies buy at Adult shops. These plunger assemblies are a push fit and have a tiny flange which you can very carefully lever each side with a blade of a thin craft knife to gently pull out. A difficult task. There must be a better way.  I have done full drawings of all the component parts, Need those head mounted magnifying glasses with good lighting and an immaculate work area ready to catch things that go flying, like Rod Stewart does with an apron that connects to the bench, but don't walk away in a hurry.

Hello, sorry if we missed the message about the pickups. The replacement plungers come as a complete unit, rather than replacing the spring on its own.

If you are stuck, our warranty department should be able to replace them for you, or send you some replacements to change.

[stevemmm]

Since Rapido have come back from Holidays I have been waiting. Seems they are busy.

[stevemmm]

I find the telephone numbers for Rapido do not work, does anyone else have that problem?

[rapidoandy]

1 hour ago, stevemmm said:

I find the telephone numbers for Rapido do not work, does anyone else have that problem?

if you have been trying in the last week or so I confess we have not been around much due to Model Rail Scotland. Do leave us an answerphone or drop us an email and we will get back to you as things return to normal in the office.

 

We are a small team and when there are big shows on we do unfortunately end up with some delays to normal processes as nearly everyone is involved elsewhere.

 

Andy

[stevemmm]

Can anyone tell us if the rapido 15xx replacement pick ups are identical to the first issue or have they been improved to prevent failures.

[Pteremy]

2 hours ago, stevemmm said:

Can anyone tell us if the rapido 15xx replacement pick ups are identical to the first issue or have they been improved to prevent failures.

 

I may be wrong but I read the exchange as meaning replacement in the sense of 'spare', not in the sense of a redesigned unit. 

[BRIAN T]

9 hours ago, stevemmm said:

 

9 hours ago, stevemmm said:

 

9 hours ago, stevemmm said:

Can anyone tell us if the rapido 15xx replacement pick ups are identical to the first issue or have they been improved to prevent failures.

They are exactly the same …and fail just like the original,I’m sorry to say, I am now fitting wire pickups ….very carefully.

Edited February 29 by BRIAN T
Duplication

[RapidoCorbs]

Hi, the pickup units we have are the same type as they are the warranty spares that were shipped with the main order.

[Mark Hamlin]

On 01/03/2024 at 10:27, BRIAN T said:

 

 

They are exactly the same …and fail just like the original,I’m sorry to say, I am now fitting wire pickups ….very carefully.

Look forward to hearing how your wire pickups are going and how you managed to fit them Brian

[stevemmm]

For DCC users especially I hopefully can see a time when a new keeper plate is made and easily available with traditional wiper type pick ups,

[BRIAN T]

Back again in a desperate attempt to get some satisfying running,great for you owners who have good ones,but after one replacement chassis and a second set of pickups (thanks to Rapido)….and changing the springs to Alan Gibson ones which were a bit stronger ,they still stick so I have started to sort out traditional wire pickups, with the the supplied keeper plate I can only fit pickups to the 4 outer drivers plus keeping the plungers in place. 
I have used very fine lacquered wire from copper strip to the pickups on the circuit board (still not spliced in).

the wire will be shaped and secured to the chassis and camouflaged to look like piping..and painted.

If anyone is interested I will post whether this succeeded or not.

thanks.

[stevemmm]

interested to see how this goes. Maybe could also use tiny black insulated wire to travel up vertically to the circuit board.

[BRIAN T]

1 hour ago, stevemmm said:

interested to see how this goes. Maybe could also use tiny black insulated wire to travel up vertically to the circuit board.

Yes ,if it doesn’t look right ,try try again.

[stevemmm]

Two of my plastic leaf springs on the keeper plate have broken off too

Edited March 4 by stevemmm

[BRIAN T]

22 hours ago, stevemmm said:

Two of my plastic leaf springs on the keeper plate have broken off too

Yes and mind they are very lightly glued into the keeper plate,I’ve superglued them back on.

[BRIAN T]

Ok, I’ve spliced the wire pickups into the circuit board plug,screwed in the keeper plate ,painted the copper strip and wires satin black.

placed it on the track without the body,broken plastic springs, etc….and hey presto ,it runs really well and with sound on , picking up on four outer wheels and the left in situ plungers, crawling over points and negotiating curves.

very pleased,now fitted the body crew ,re glued springs,just need to freshen the weathering a bit.

I feel satisfied that I’ve had a go to get acceptable running….very fiddly,but now well worth it.

[stevemmm]

Thanks for the info. So far I have fitted new home made springs to the plunger pick ups, these were made from wire from Lima pancake motor brush springs which is .006" thick wire (.15mm) while the original is .004" (.1mm) thick wire. These heavier springs are sadly still not able to safely handle all the electrical incidents that happen on DCC layouts it seems, but are a slight improvement. 

[BRIAN T]

14 minutes ago, stevemmm said:

Thanks for the info. So far I have fitted new home made springs to the plunger pick ups, these were made from wire from Lima pancake motor brush springs which is .006" thick wire (.15mm) while the original is .004" (.1mm) thick wire. These heavier springs are sadly still not able to safely handle all the electrical incidents that happen on DCC layouts it seems, but are a slight improvement. 

I fitted Alan Gibson springs to mine ,but the plungers were still binding in the tube.

[Trofimow]

Respect to anybody who takes on the task of doing this mod to make the loco run properly.

 

It's a real shame that what is otherwise such an excellent model requires such input. One has to wonder why it was felt necessary to use a pick up design so far removed from proven practice, and how extensively it was tested to prove the reliability of the implementation.

[RapidoCorbs]

23 minutes ago, Trofimow said:

Respect to anybody who takes on the task of doing this mod to make the loco run properly.

 

It's a real shame that what is otherwise such an excellent model requires such input. One has to wonder why it was felt necessary to use a pick up design so far removed from proven practice, and how extensively it was tested to prove the reliability of the implementation.

 

Our test mules did hundreds of laps on different test tracks (DC and DCC) without pickup failures so it is another incredibly frustrating thing.

 

The 16xx produced by RT Inc. for Model Rail uses plunger pickups.

Edited March 4 by RapidoCorbs

[BRIAN T]

28 minutes ago, RapidoCorbs said:

 

Our test mules did hundreds of laps on different test tracks (DC and DCC) without pickup failures so it is another incredibly frustrating thing.

 

The 16xx produced by RT Inc. for Model Rail uses plunger pickups.

Yes,but there were still plunger problems with the 1600pt  as you sent out (to me) uprated ones which made good contact with the wheels,this made a huge improvement to running qualities.

Edited March 4 by BRIAN T

[stevemmm]

It is disturbing that DCC systems like NCE can produce 7.5 amps with 14 volts on the track at any time, even with intermediate circuit breakers or suppressors this can be reduced to 2.5amps, this is still enough to anneal tiny plunger springs in the event of a derailment or running into points set incorrectly. In my 10 years experience with DCC in a club with 300 members on a OO 14m x 7m layout with 300m of track specializing in prototypical operation and shunting, it seems most models can stand the punishment DCC gives except for the 15xx.

[Trofimow]

14 minutes ago, stevemmm said:

It is disturbing that DCC systems like NCE can produce 7.5 amps with 14 volts on the track at any time, even with intermediate circuit breakers or suppressors this can be reduced to 2.5amps, this is still enough to anneal tiny plunger springs in the event of a derailment or running into points set incorrectly. In my 10 years experience with DCC in a club with 300 members on a OO 14m x 7m layout with 300m of track specializing in prototypical operation and shunting, it seems most models can stand the punishment DCC gives except for the 15xx.

 

Which is similar to my experience, but gives pause for thought. My  points, of which there are lots, all use autofrogs, which need an instantaneous short to work. I wonder if running over a succession of these on a points ladder could have an effect on the springs. The pickups didn't last very long on my layout.

[RapidoCorbs]

12 hours ago, BRIAN T said:

Yes,but there were still plunger problems with the 1600pt  as you sent out (to me) uprated ones which made good contact with the wheels,this made a huge improvement to running qualities.

Yes the original plungers were made too short. From what we have seen, the replacement ones have performed well on the 16xx.

[MikeParkin65]

Having finally got 'the loop' completed to allow continuous running as opposed to just end to end I set the 15xx running when I stated work at 0800. Still merrily running now three and half hours later smoothly and quietly (albeit with the characteristic roll). I'm using an NCE Powercab with a 5 amp booster and Tam Valley Frog Juicers. With a multi meter there is an indicated 17v at the rails (appreciate multimeter isnt necessarily definitive in this respect.

 

Nothing undue to report at all :)