Lockdown’s Last Lingerings - (Covid since L2 ended)

[adb968008]

I wish we were approaching this more like Australia.

[Neil]

8 hours ago, LBRJ said:

Its called reacting to an ever changing situation.

I'm rather pleased that we have a Gvt. who actually do this (regardless of what colour they are politically)

 

Reacting to changing circumstances is good but being constantly behind the curve is bad. Again we circle back to the issues of competence, caution and diligence. We would expect all these qualities from our doctor, plumber or mechanic. Why should we expect less from our politicians?

[Grizz]

Billy Connolly quote “The desire to be a politician should bar you for life from ever becoming one.” 
 

Could not agree more! Unlike the rest of us mortals, there are never any true consequences to their actions or inactions. With big boys power should come big boys responsibilities and consequences. They are not frightened. They should be. It focuses the mind. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Grizz
Auto corrocting

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

 

Reacting to changing circumstances is good but being constantly behind the curve is bad. Again we circle back to the issues of competence, caution and diligence. We would expect all these qualities from our doctor, plumber or mechanic. Why should we expect less from our politicians?

What they need of course is your crystal ball 

[Nearholmer]

It genuinely feels to me as if the horse has bolted, and the stable-keepers are tearing round the paddock trying to catch it.

 

Whether that’s because they failed to keep the stable door shut, a load of the rest of us loosened the catch, the horse learned how to undo it for itself, or a bit of each, I’m not entirely sure, but it is a big old horse, and the thought of getting trampled by it isn’t comforting.

[boxbrownie]

7 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I wish we were approaching this more like Australia.

On a boat for £10 ?  

[Bernard Lamb]

9 hours ago, LBRJ said:

Its called reacting to an ever changing situation.

I'm rather pleased that we have a Gvt. who actually do this (regardless of what colour they are politically)

No, it's called fire fighting. Making an announcement without checking what your department is doing, in the case of the primary school shambles does not seem to me to be reacting to an ever changing situation. Gavin Williamson announces the opening of schools but does not mention that it does not apply to all schools in all London Boroughs. Two hours later the full details are published and these present a strange pattern that bears no relation to the number of cases in the areas. Some days later it is decided to close all primary schools in London.

Which of course leaves my daughter, yet again, in a total mess. 

Unfortunately the government has not got a clue about how people live in many parts of London. It knows nothing about the mental health problems of young children. It knows nothing about the impossibility of on line teaching when several children of different ages are living in one room, let alone where any of them are going to find a laptop. It knows nothing about children who do not speak a word of English yet are sent to main stream schools.  

The government is creating a situation that will lead to serious problems in a few years time. Dealing with the virus is not the only problem.

Meanwhile other kids are leaping ahead with private tutoring and all the necessary on line resources.

Nothing to do with the colour of the government but all to do with the total lack of any plan by the current government. The current situation was known back in at least early October. The free for all in late Summer could only lead to a major spread of the virus.  Unlike the situation in March, where I still think that the reaction was too slow, there has been plenty of time to put plans in place. Yes, the new strain has added to the problem but that could and should have been built in as it is known that viruses do mutate.

Bernard

[t-b-g]

At times like these, it is astonishing how many experts they are, who know just how things should be done.

 

Some say schools should be closed, some say schools should be kept open. Some say vaccinate one group first, others say give a different priority.

 

Some say that Covid is a major problem, others see it as no worse than other illnesses and putting restrictions on what people can do doesn't apply to them because it is an infringement on their personal liberty.

 

There are some countries where the results of their policies look better than ours and some that look worse but each country is different. Population density and the denseness of some of the population vary, along with the sense of civic duty and personal responsibility that the citizens have.

 

It is easy to be critical of any policy made by the Government because there is no "good" response. Whatever they do has a "down side" and it is easy to make a big thing of that, while pretty much disregarding the "up side".

 

If schools stay open, the Government is allowing a "super spreader". If schools stay closed, the Government is seriously impacting the education of our youngsters and creating a childcare problem for parents. If they take their time deciding to do something, they are dragging their feet. If they act quickly, they are rushing without thinking it through.

 

They just cannot win!

 

The truth is that if we, as a collective population, all behaved responsibly and followed the guidelines, the problem would be much less worse than it is now.

 

New year parties, raves, people determined to get as much wild party style socialising in before they have to stop, it is all adding to the problem. People "not being bothered" about masks and social distancing as they would probably be OK if they caught it, are also part of the problem. That is a purely selfish attitude.

 

Have the Government got everything right all the time? Unlikely, in the face of a new, unknown and changing threat like this. Could any other administration have done much better? I doubt it.

 

All I want to do is to keep my head down, keep myself and my family safe and get through it as best we can. If that means not socialising for a few more months, that is a price I am willing to pay.

[stovepipe]

Yes they can and should be doing better. Muddling through in classic British style is not acceptable after 12 months. The summer gave us a chance to get ahead of the curve, but the leadership bowed to the lobbyists and pressure groups, and loosened what control we had. And since the high profile rule breaking of a SPAD went unpunished, people have been increasingly making their own rules up.

 

The tier system is failing because it seems to be too complicated for many people, coupled with many cases of wilful misunderstanding. Too many reasonably intelligent people of my acquaintance are OK with being in several bubbles at once. Some parents think they can be in bubbles with all of their children's families. The focus seems to be on whether they will get found out, rather than are they spreading the virus. The messages are not landing, and the large number of changes are not helping.

[EddieB]

Much as we should pull together in a time of crisis, and take our responsibilities seriously, there has been a failure of leadership, both to act decisively and to lead by example.  That is true not just in Westminster, but in the devolved assemblies as well.

 

One of the characteristics of the British people is that trust must be established and maintained before allegiance is given.  The disregard among the political elite, their cronies and even some in the scientific community during the course of this pandemic had done little to earn respect with an attitude of “do as I say, not as I do”.

[Neil]

1 hour ago, t-b-g said:

.... Have the Government got everything right all the time? Unlikely, in the face of a new, unknown and changing threat like this. Could any other administration have done much better? I doubt it.  .....

 

Some administrations around the world have done an awful lot better. It's reasonable to expect that our own government should have done better.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, stovepipe said:

The messages are not landing,

Spot-on.

 

The communication has been too mealy-mouthed. It needs simple rules, endlessly repeated in every possible format and multiple languages.

 

There can/should never be 100% police enforcement, but the foregoing would help legitimise the application of peer-pressure, which would help a lot.

 

IMO, our government have tried to be too accommodating for multiple reasons, attempted to be too kind, and possibly ended-up being too cruel by default. And, i agree that it isn’t a ‘political colour’ thing - it’s more about the personal inclinations of leaders, whether they are comfortable doling out nasty-tasting medicine.

 

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Nearholmer

[woodenhead]

@Grizz you might want to tone down your last comments, take out some of the directness.

[Grizz]

Fair call Wooden Head, thank you for being the voice of reason. You are most kind to call me on this. 
Apologies all. 

Edited January 2, 2021 by Grizz
Had a few...irritatable.....must stop watching TV.

[woodenhead]

I agree with a lot of what @t-b-g says, the Government is learning as this evolves but my ire comes in the way that they went too far back the other way in the summer.  Basically, they treated it like it was all over, nothing to worry about, go spend money, go abroad but keep your distance from people - you cannot keep apart from people and do all the things the Government was suggesting we do.  They shot themselves in the foot having got through the initial lockdown they should have taken a cautious approach, focussed on how to get the schools back and wait for the vaccine but instead they bowed to pressure and got everyone to mix as much as possible.  They could have been preparing mass testing, they could have been planning for a hard winter but no it was focussing on it all being over and now we are where a lot of us expected to be (with or without a summer of fun)

[Grizz]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

I agree with a lot of what @t-b-g says, the Government is learning as this evolves but my ire comes in the way that they went too far back the other way in the summer.  Basically, they treated it like it was all over, nothing to worry about, go spend money, go abroad but keep your distance from people - you cannot keep apart from people and do all the things the Government was suggesting we do.  They shot themselves in the foot having got through the initial lockdown they should have taken a cautious approach, focussed on how to get the schools back and wait for the vaccine but instead they bowed to pressure and got everyone to mix as much as possible.  They could have been preparing mass testing, they could have been planning for a hard winter but no it was focussing on it all being over and now we are where a lot of us expected to be (with or without a summer of fun)

Well summed up Wooden Head. Far more eloquent than my fuel fuelled rant. 

[woodenhead]

3 minutes ago, Grizz said:

Far more eloquent than my fuel fuelled rant. 

I've written and deleted before posting many rants of late, I let it out in an attempted post, then read it back and go, what the heck are you doing and delete it all, but the I've got the need to say it out of me and all is good again then.

[stewartingram]

14 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Coronavirus causes arguments, among its many other unpleasant affects.

 

Brexit causes really acrimonious arguments.

 

Please can we just leave Brexit out of this thread.

 

 

Can we also leave arguments out?

There are discussions, and there are arguments!

[Ashcombe]

Some very valid points are being made and I do not wish to appear flippant within a serious thread but I thought I’d share this for a little light relief:-

 

For the second time this week, our MP has published an update which includes the following:-

 

“....... I mentioned in my update special on Wednesday of it appearing people have gyrated towards areas with lower restrictions, despite advice not to, with the resulting impact now being seen.....”

 

I'll let you know if I see any “gyrating” visitors in Torbay. I suppose it’s one way of keeping warm!

As Ian (Olddudders) remarked: “The peasants are revolving....!”

[boxbrownie]

18 minutes ago, Ashcombe said:

 

As Ian (Olddudders) remarked: “The peasants are revolving....!”

And looking at some of the breaches of restrictions over the past few days they certainly might be revolving but definitely not evolving..........I swear we are going backwards on the Darwin scale.

Edited January 2, 2021 by boxbrownie

[monkeysarefun]

1 hour ago, woodenhead said:

I agree with a lot of what @t-b-g says, the Government is learning as this evolves but my ire comes in the way that they went too far back the other way in the summer.  Basically, they treated it like it was all over, nothing to worry about, go spend money, go abroad but keep your distance from people - you cannot keep apart from people and do all the things the Government was suggesting we do.  They shot themselves in the foot having got through the initial lockdown they should have taken a cautious approach, focussed on how to get the schools back and wait for the vaccine but instead they bowed to pressure and got everyone to mix as much as possible.  They could have been preparing mass testing, they could have been planning for a hard winter but no it was focussing on it all being over and now we are where a lot of us expected to be (with or without a summer of fun)

 

Travel to and from here other than returning residents was shut down completely by March/April and the government always has made it plain not to plan any overseas trips until at least 4th quarter 2021. At one point in August  you had less daily cases  than us due to an outbreak in Melbourne. At that point, while the UK government reopened  travel to Europe and foreign climes for summer  the Victorians conducted house to house mass testing,  bans on travel outside a certain distance and 8pm -  5am curfews. 

[The Stationmaster]

4 minutes ago, monkeysarefun said:

 

Travel to and from here other than returning residents was shut down completely by March/April and the government always has made it plain not to plan any overseas trips until at least 4th quarter 2021. At one point in August  you had less daily cases  than us due to an outbreak in Melbourne. At that point, while the UK government reopened  travel to Europe and foreign climes for summer  the Victorians conducted house to house mass testing,  bans on travel outside a certain distance and 8pm -  5am curfews. 

All very sensible in AUS of course but you can't go interfering with laissez faire British habits now can you.   The latter of course has been teh big problem faced all the way through by British Isles govts and whatever they do, or did, they are damned.

 

But one thing which has staggered me over the past week or two is the number of holiday ads appearing on tv (and probably elsewhere).  it does however raise an interesting philosophical question -- which in present circumstances is worse?

1. Encouraging people to travel internationally (and intra-nationally in some cases) by advertising holidays?

OR

2. Actually booking one of those holidays?

[vaughan45]

4 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

But one thing which has staggered me over the past week or two is the number of holiday ads appearing on tv (and probably elsewhere).  it does however raise an interesting philosophical question -- which in present circumstances is worse?

1. Encouraging people to travel internationally (and intra-nationally in some cases) by advertising holidays?

OR

2. Actually booking one of those holidays?

 

Similar conundrum posed by all those ads from purveyors of party food & drink for New Years eve party celebrations?

[APOLLO]

10 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

All very sensible in AUS of course but you can't go interfering with laissez faire British habits now can you.   The latter of course has been teh big problem faced all the way through by British Isles govts and whatever they do, or did, they are damned.

 

But one thing which has staggered me over the past week or two is the number of holiday ads appearing on tv (and probably elsewhere).  it does however raise an interesting philosophical question -- which in present circumstances is worse?

1. Encouraging people to travel internationally (and intra-nationally in some cases) by advertising holidays?

OR

2. Actually booking one of those holidays?

 

The worlds airlines are bleeding to death. they are desperate for money hence the shove for bookings. Go on most major airlines websites and bookings can be made and paid for to almost anywhere. Once they have your money that's it - If you can't travel due to covid restrictions etc in future they will / may offer a rebook, getting a cash refund is like getting blood out of a stone.

 

BOOK NOTHING this year. Even as the vaccine rolls out worldwide the simple fact that those unjabbed will outnumber those jabbed for most of this year. Travel restrictions will be, at best on/off this year, an unknown.

 

2021 is a stay at home for my family this year. 2022 we will see how it pans out later this year. I'm NOT optimistic re travel.

 

Brit15

[monkeysarefun]

41 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

All very sensible in AUS of course but you can't go interfering with laissez faire British habits now can you.   The latter of course has been teh big problem faced all the way through by British Isles govts and whatever they do, or did, they are damned.

 

But one thing which has staggered me over the past week or two is the number of holiday ads appearing on tv (and probably elsewhere).  it does however raise an interesting philosophical question -- which in present circumstances is worse?

1. Encouraging people to travel internationally (and intra-nationally in some cases) by advertising holidays?

OR

2. Actually booking one of those holidays?

We've started to get ads for Cruise liner holidays again even though the government has banned them indefinitely.

 

I was reading an interview with the boss of British airways on a Scottish news website. He stated that international travel should br allowed because flying is very low risk as only 44 case's of covid has ever been linked to air travel.  Which is a complete crock because we get double that number of cases each week pickled up in quarantined returnees who got here by air travel and both the Melbourne outbreak and the current NSW one have been caused by overseas air travellers or flight crew. And just how else did it spread around the globe in the first place?

 

 Oh and quarantining should be stopped because no one wants to travel if they have to quarantine for two weeks.

 

What a d1ck.

 

Edited January 2, 2021 by monkeysarefun