"Best" RTR Class 47 model in OO - opinions sought

[John Tomlinson]

You don't say if you want your two tone green 47 to have the original style cantrail grilles, or the later pattern for the Serck items.

 

I do know that Heljan did both, as I own some, but wouldn't know if this is so for other manufacturers in your required colour scheme.

 

Like one of the other contributors above, I bought several Heljan 47's in their early years when they were a quantum leap forward from the Hornby and Lima items, because of their running quality. I think I have seven now, maybe eight. Having detailed them up on the buffer beams, done renumberings etc. I decided not to replace them when the Bachmann ones appeared, however given the excess width if I were starting now from scratch I'd probably go Bachmann.

 

When they are running around the layout I would say that I don't notice the extra width, my track is the wrong width anyway being "OO"! The smooth running is excellent. The issue of the early type wheels losing conductivity is solved by cleaning until the factory coating wears off, then its fine. I've not had a Mazak problem either, despite some of my locos being identified as "at risk".

 

John.

Edited December 19, 2020 by John Tomlinson
typo

[Northmoor]

I haven't bought a new 47 in about 30 years, but can say the Lima body when it came out was a massive improvement on the Hornby of the time, although I've seen some very impressive upgrades (and the source material is SOOOO cheap).

 

As for running, I would caveat those who insist Hornby or Lima run terribly and should be avoided.  What type of running do you expect to do?  Modern models will run considerably better on small depot layouts at low speed (so do very low "mileage").  However if you've a decent roundy-roundy and your locos run for long periods, Hornby Ringfield motors were always pretty indestructible.  I don't know about the longevity of Lima which while noisy tend to run OK above slow-ish speeds, but there have been plenty of stories about modern loco drives falling apart after a few years and being almost irreparable.

[rob D2]

12 hours ago, Northmoor said:

I haven't bought a new 47 in about 30 years, but can say the Lima body when it came out was a massive improvement on the Hornby of the time, although I've seen some very impressive upgrades (and the source material is SOOOO cheap).

 

As for running, I would caveat those who insist Hornby or Lima run terribly and should be avoided.  What type of running do you expect to do?  Modern models will run considerably better on small depot layouts at low speed (so do very low "mileage").  However if you've a decent roundy-roundy and your locos run for long periods, Hornby Ringfield motors were always pretty indestructible.  I don't know about the longevity of Lima which while noisy tend to run OK above slow-ish speeds, but there have been plenty of stories about modern loco drives falling apart after a few years and being almost irreparable.

Quite the reverse I feel. 
Bachmann spares are plentiful and the 47 is easy to work on. I’ve seen quoted   About a 100 hrs a motor is the expected life ,

 

im not sure why you’d want something ancient , where there is no longer any real product support ?

[Legend]

1 hour ago, rob D2 said:

Quite the reverse I feel. 
Bachmann spares are plentiful and the 47 is easy to work on. I’ve seen quoted   About a 100 hrs a motor is the expected life ,

 

im not sure why you’d want something ancient , where there is no longer any real product support ?

You  don’t need product support . They are cheap enough you can buy replacement locos easily . Swap body if need be . 

Edited December 21, 2020 by Legend

[DCB]

The old Hornby can be radically improved by fitting larger wheels to the power bogie, I actually used County /28XX tender drive power units which have nearer scale wheels and covered the spokes with plastic discs.  Two Power bogies gives decent traction and spares are readily available.   At the other end of the scale the lack of working radiator shutters is disappointing, my abiding memory is of 47s leaving Cheltenham with the rad shutters opening as the revs increased and the train began to creep away.....

[Steamport Southport]

13 hours ago, rob D2 said:

Quite the reverse I feel. 
Bachmann spares are plentiful and the 47 is easy to work on. I’ve seen quoted   About a 100 hrs a motor is the expected life ,

 

im not sure why you’d want something ancient , where there is no longer any real product support ?

 

That 100 hours figure isn't the life. But the length it's guaranteed for. 100 hours is what a new model is expected to be used in a normal period. So if your new train set breaks over Christmas due to junior using it 10 hours a day for two weeks then you can get a refund, repair or replacement as it's deemed "normal use" rather than excessive use.

 

A model should be expected to last years if looked after and maintained. Once it's out of guarantee then the onus is on you to look after it.

 

Plenty of support as virtually all the parts from old Lima, Hornby, Mainline, Triang, etc motors and mechanisms are easily available from places like Peter's Spares.

 

 

Jason

[Enterprisingwestern]

 

A Lima diesel with the CD motor style upgrade is as good as any current mechanism IMHO, and re jig the pick ups for an even better performance.

 

Mike.

[SteveyDee68]

3 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

A Lima diesel with the CD motor style upgrade is as good as any current mechanism IMHO, and re jig the pick ups for an even better performance.

 

Mike.

 

I have looked at Lima offerings on eBay, with a view to doing some "upgrading" of windows, handrails, adding extra details and replacing the motor with a CD drive kit. I even wondered about dual motoring them!

 

But what do you do about the large flanges, or worse still traction tyres?! 

[Enterprisingwestern]

4 hours ago, SteveyDee68 said:

But what do you do about the large flanges, or worse still traction tyres?! 

 

Being an EM modeller, those sorts of things don't worry me!

For OO, it's not beyond impossible to cut off the gear part of the wheel and stick it behind a 14mm coach wheel, which is how we used to  EM them back in the dark ages!

 

Mike.

[crompton 33]

With my old lima models i replaced them with Ultrascale wheels .  That was a few year's back .  These day's with the cost of parts you need to update a lima model . CD motor . wheels . roof grill . windows . Then i'd get a S/H Bachmann or Vitrains model .

[DCB]

17 hours ago, Steamport Southport said:

 

That 100 hours figure isn't the life. But the length it's guaranteed for. 100 hours is what a new model is expected to be used in a normal period. So if your new train set breaks over Christmas due to junior using it 10 hours a day for two weeks then you can get a refund, repair or replacement as it's deemed "normal use" rather than excessive use.

 

A model should be expected to last years if looked after and maintained. Once it's out of guarantee then the onus is on you to look after it.

 

Plenty of support as virtually all the parts from old Lima, Hornby, Mainline, Triang, etc motors and mechanisms are easily available from places like Peter's Spares.

 

 

Jason

 

The annoying thing about Bachmann etc is that the only spares available are complete motors where Triang H/D etc had brushes which could be purchased and  replaced and a service life of many hundred hours.

My experience  with Bachmann  is a sorry saga of failed motors, for which replacements were not available well within 100 hours use but probably more than 12 months intermittent use.   Obviously I am supposed to buy another Bachmann loco but I prefer to use their bodies and coupling rods on re drilled carved up Neo magnetised Triang chassis which have a projected life greater than mine.

 

 

12 hours ago, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

A Lima diesel with the CD motor style upgrade is as good as any current mechanism IMHO, and re jig the pick ups for an even better performance.

 

Mike.

The Lima  CD upgrade is good but eventually the plastic stub axles for the spur gears wear and they are part of the power bogie frame and very difficult to repair/ bodge.   The gears also wear but can be changed.   The Hornby power bogie with metal stub axles is much more wear resistant.   

[rob D2]

Well whatever you decide , thank your lucky stars it won’t be quite as bad as this Hornby 47 from 1985 - where Hornby left the guidelines for green livery on , when they did it in blue....

 

 

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by rob D2
Photo change

[Grizz]

Had two Hornby class 47s when I was young. 47421 in BR Blue with yellow ends. Weirdly I actually saw it at Kings Cross in the 1980s, by which time it had been named Brontes of Haworth, it always remain a favourite, the real loco not the model. 
And Mamoth, a horrible green 47. Both these had the raised paint lines on the body. They ran ok but not great. Not sure what happened to them. 
 

Years later I accumulated 40+ Lima 47s. Body not bad but mech was garbage. Traction Tyres.....hated them. Huge amounts of carbon could be found all over the track and plastered on the inside of the roof above the motor bogie. I used to thrash them to death on Intercity trains, regularly burning hole in the commutator and wearing out brushes. I had a box of spare brushes and armatures bought from their factory.
Only improved by fitting extra pick ups to the trailing bogie. Still got a load of them but haven’t used them for years. 
 

Heljan was a game changer. No traction tyres and a stupidly powerful motor. Got 12 of them. Yes they do have oversized bodies but they can haul anything and I have only ever had one that had a drive shaft shear off and one that had a motor burn out, after being thrashed around my fairly large layout with 14 coaches for a week without switching it off, just for fun. 
 

Have experienced the same issues as David highlights regarding Bachmann, I chose not to buy their 47s as a result. The main issue I have found is the worm drive bearings wearing out. I have had this on classes 24, 25 and 37s, despite adequate lubrication. Brass filings on the tops of the bogie frames and when dismantled, brass filings throughout the gear train. To be fair I have always driven my locos hard as the last layout and current layouts are fairly large and have been designed as continuous running with no stations. Even so after enquiries they won’t sell bearings separately, although I have resorted to either eBay or cannibalising other locos. So I am continuing to exercise my consumer choice and not buy their overpriced locos. 

 

Looking forward to the new Heljan 47. Hopefully I can double head a pair of these without tripping out my Gaugemaster controllers. Cannot solve this problem as it happens with a pair of Heljan 33s as well. 

[rob D2]

1 hour ago, Grizz said:

Had two Hornby class 47s when I was young. 47421 in BR Blue with yellow ends. Weirdly I actually saw it at Kings Cross in the 1980s, by which time it had been named Brontes of Haworth, it always remain a favourite, the real loco not the model. 
And Mamoth, a horrible green 47. Both these had the raised paint lines on the body. They ran ok but not great. Not sure what happened to them. 
 

Years later I accumulated 40+ Lima 47s. Body not bad but mech was garbage. Traction Tyres.....hated them. Huge amounts of carbon could be found all over the track and plastered on the inside of the roof above the motor bogie. I used to thrash them to death on Intercity trains, regularly burning hole in the commutator and wearing out brushes. I had a box of spare brushes and armatures bought from their factory.
Only improved by fitting extra pick ups to the trailing bogie. Still got a load of them but haven’t used them for years. 
 

Heljan was a game changer. No traction tyres and a stupidly powerful motor. Got 12 of them. Yes they do have oversized bodies but they can haul anything and I have only ever had one that had a drive shaft shear off and one that had a motor burn out, after being thrashed around my fairly large layout with 14 coaches for a week without switching it off, just for fun. 
 

Have experienced the same issues as David highlights regarding Bachmann, I chose not to buy their 47s as a result. The main issue I have found is the worm drive bearings wearing out. I have had this on classes 24, 25 and 37s, despite adequate lubrication. Brass filings on the tops of the bogie frames and when dismantled, brass filings throughout the gear train. To be fair I have always driven my locos hard as the last layout and current layouts are fairly large and have been designed as continuous running with no stations. Even so after enquiries they won’t sell bearings separately, although I have resorted to either eBay or cannibalising other locos. So I am continuing to exercise my consumer choice and not buy their overpriced locos. 

 

Looking forward to the new Heljan 47. Hopefully I can double head a pair of these without tripping out my Gaugemaster controllers. Cannot solve this problem as it happens with a pair of Heljan 33s as well. 

All our experiences are different I guess .

I had a few Lima 47s , but remember being distinctly underwhelmed when I brought my first Heljan one .

 

heavy as hell but wheels off a steam roller and strange performance on DCC - massive acceleration and smoother but not as id hoped .

 

 

I accrued a few of those but traded then for Bachmann - I only have 10’ plank layouts so haven’t experienced any failures in extensive running 

[Butler Henderson]

Often missed by many is that the Lima 47, as now sold by Hornby, is a touch narrow.

[Enterprisingwestern]

14 minutes ago, Butler Henderson said:

Often missed by many is that the Lima 47, as now sold by Hornby, is a touch narrow.

 

Not if you put it in a blender with a Heljan one!

 

Mike.

[SteveyDee68]

Just revisiting this old thread and the fact suddenly struck me (as in being hit over the head with an idiot stick) …

 

When I asked the original question, I already owned a Bachmann Class 57 which, if I am not mistaken, is basically an updated Class 47?

 

That loco ran super smooth right out of the box and had lovely detailing, so how come I had forgotten I had it?

 

When I first started back in the hobby back in 2017, I had this brilliant idea to do a “modern image” Inglenook using pairs of Freightliner intermodal wagons instead of the traditional single 10’ wheelbase wagons used on such layouts. My plans were for a 3,2,2 configuration serving a wharf based upon the wharf at Irlam on the Manchester Ship Canal, and I amassed a Freightliner 08, 57 and a 73 (ugly thing) before the penny dropped - why shuffle wagons about when you could just lift the boxes off the wagons?! Everything went into a plastic box and I forgot about it all…

 

What I should do is sell it all off*, together with the Bachmann RES livery coaches I also acquired and … OMG … I have a LIMA class 47 in RES livery! 🤦‍♂️ 

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

* If I do, will I get back what I paid for them? More importantly, should I decide to do something “Freightliner” in the future, will I ever be able to afford buying those models again?!! 🫢🤣

[SteveyDee68]

Watching some intermodal wagon sales on eBay - practically brand new pair of wagons with containers starting bid of £5 … and no interest?!! 
 

Others have empty wagon sets starting at £45 with no interest either.

 

Doesn’t bode well for offloading out of era stock! 🙄

 

Steve S

 

PS

Whilst reading through the “Improving and Detailing RTR” thread (starting on the last page and working forwards) a couple of articles prompted me to remember that I also have a Bachmann Class 66 in Freightliner livery … I may even have a Lima Class 59 and 60 (in random liveries) too!

 

I really should dig that box out from under the eaves and check what on earth I have acquired and then forgotten about!

[97406]

This is an interesting thread - I remember detailing and flush glazing the Hornby 47 when I were a lad and then the Lima one came out! Nowadays, I hold the Vitrains Class 47 in high regard. It is cheap to buy and can be turned into something quite decent looking. 

 

[SteveyDee68]

12 minutes ago, 97406 said:

This is an interesting thread - I remember detailing and flush glazing the Hornby 47 when I were a lad and then the Lima one came out! Nowadays, I hold the Vitrains Class 47 in high regard. It is cheap to buy and can be turned into something quite decent looking. 

 

Quick glance at eBay and the cheapest (running) Vitrains Class 47 is currently at a high bid of £47 - but is missing a buffer and housing, and is in a different livery and so would some work to make suitable for my chosen time period.

 

However, a two tone green Vitrains 47 is also available with a starting bid of £68, which seems very reasonable. I did wonder about the video, however, as the seller shows it running at express speeds (from stationary) and it does sound quite “gravelly” - is that normal for a Vitrains motor, I wonder?

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

PS

A couple of Bachmann 47s have also appeared, but have LOTS of watchers so guessing those may sell for £££ 

[Halvarras]

On 24/12/2020 at 04:23, rob D2 said:

Well whatever you decide , thank your lucky stars it won’t be quite as bad as this Hornby 47 from 1985 - where Hornby left the guidelines for green livery on , when they did it in blue....

 

 

 

 

I bought two Hornby Class 47s when they first came out (as D1738 with the cast underframe) and since one of them was to be repainted blue the lines had to go (I think it was the first model I ever used an airbrush on). The lines remained on the other one as the two-tone green livery disguised it - or so I managed to convince myself back in 1975.......

[Ighten]

DCC fit and sound up an old ring field Lima and it will snail pace through a shunting layout.. Ok the cab the bufferbeam the missing fine details (radio masts, desperate wipers and the like) will always have you taking it to the workbench for another round of improvements but that's part of the 😊 fun.

 

 

It took less than a day to fit flush glazing, etches from fox and a 8 pin socket for a Hornby TSX with a 47 download. Next to do is west ends bufferbeam detail pack and finally ultrascale wheels if I think I need them as this later Lima model runs fine on code 55 and the frames do hide most issues. By buying at shows or stores and not paying postage I still have change from 40£.(ultrascale not included - and the TSX is always interchangeable).

 

Problem now though is even Lima prices have started to rocket.. I agree with 97406 now.. the VITrains is worth it at the right price.

 

 

 

[Hal Nail]

The problem with this sort of discussion is we all see* things differently. I'm pretty certain I could post a picture of one with 3 cab windows and two headcodes and someone would say the curve of the cant-rail grills is the best yet.

 

Look at one and if you like it buy it - its irrelevant what the rest of us think.

 

 

*Performance is different and I accept that but my layout is only 37 years into the planning stage so some way off yet.

 

 

 

[Matt]

TBH a Lima loco on my layout is probably the most detailed and realistic part of my layout… I do like the more recent offerings but I’ve a long long way to go before my layout overtakes even the most basic locomotives running on it in detail terms!

[rob D2]

On 10/12/2023 at 12:44, SteveyDee68 said:

Quick glance at eBay and the cheapest (running) Vitrains Class 47 is currently at a high bid of £47 - but is missing a buffer and housing, and is in a different livery and so would some work to make suitable for my chosen time period.

 

However, a two tone green Vitrains 47 is also available with a starting bid of £68, which seems very reasonable. I did wonder about the video, however, as the seller shows it running at express speeds (from stationary) and it does sound quite “gravelly” - is that normal for a Vitrains motor, I wonder?

 

HOURS OF FUN!

 

PS

A couple of Bachmann 47s have also appeared, but have LOTS of watchers so guessing those may sell for £££ 

Vitrains was a bit odd . Lima style bodies with terrible details to add , and a slightly better motor , but at a price too close to Bachmann .

 

Bare in mind , these are long out of production and no longer supported by the importer ( who commissioned them in the first place )

Edited December 13, 2023 by rob D2