Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[Nearholmer]

Staying on this OT subject: apparently the illness we catch from Tetanus isn't caused directly by the bacteria itself, but by something excreted by the bacteria (bacteria poo, effectively!), and it has a structure that is very irregular and unlike a bacterium or a virus, so the immune system has trouble dealing with it. I wonder if modern vaccines do deal with it, but by knocking-out the bacteria themselves, before they get to excrete too much. [No, apparently the vaccine stimulates immunity to the toxin, not the bacterium directly, and in the US the recommendation is revaccination ten yearly, I think up to three rounds. The NHS website says that if you’ve had all five childhood tetanus vaccinations it’s unlikely that you will need one for a wound, but you might if they assess it as particularly likely to harbour tetanus.]
 

 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by Nearholmer

[MJI]

A return to what has been called politics. I will call this small p rather than big P.

 

Like many here I am quite centrist and hate extremism either way.

 

Just remember that the majority of people in parliament are doing this out of duty to the people. Yes some are blaggers, some out for themselves, but they are a minority.

 

.

[Hobby]

I'd like to believe it was true, and for the majority of backbenchers it may well be, but they can still be "bought" as my constituency found out to our cost after the 1997 election. Hence I tend to be very cynical of all of them!  

[MJI]

6 minutes ago, Hobby said:

I'd like to believe it was true, and for the majority of backbenchers it may well be, but they can still be "bought" as my constituency found out to our cost after the 1997 election. Hence I tend to be very cynical of all of them!  

 

Hence majority and not all.

 

Had a helpful one back in 70s and 80s at parents*, currently had yes men here for last two MPs just they said yes to 5 different PMs#

 

* My dad serviced his car, MP was also a local farmer.

# Good one when moved here, then a not long enough to find out, then yes men.

 

[Hobby]

The point I was making is that they can still be "bought", no matter how good we may think they are the political party they stand under always holds sway (or they switch to another and that has the same effect!). The best MP I've ever had was a true Independent, although voted in under one particular banner (return of our A&E) he turned out to be the best thing since sliced bread (to use a phrase!). Whenever he voted he held himself up for examination by his constituents by always explaining why he voted the way he did. People may have disagreed with his decision but couldn't fault his honesty. Sadly missed.

[MJI]

7 minutes ago, Hobby said:

The point I was making is that they can still be "bought", no matter how good we may think they are the political party they stand under always holds sway (or they switch to another and that has the same effect!). The best MP I've ever had was a true Independent, although voted in under one particular banner (return of our A&E) he turned out to be the best thing since sliced bread (to use a phrase!). Whenever he voted he held himself up for examination by his constituents by always explaining why he voted the way he did. People may have disagreed with his decision but couldn't fault his honesty. Sadly missed.

 

No wonder, I know the ones you meant. I am surprised he lost in 2010.

 

We did have support local post offices, vote to close local post offices, a longwhile ago, one of the yes men.

[Nearholmer]

In the dim and distant, the local MP here was Robert Maxwell. 'nuff said!

 

More recently, weve had good 'uns, by which I mean well-motivated on local issues, and not extreme, of both main parties, a fact which I put down to the two constituencies locally both being fairly marginal, and the council being "hung", which keeps everyone on their toes.

[Bernard Lamb]

23 hours ago, hayfield said:

 

This post seems very politically biased, !!!

Quite so John.

It is not often that I agree with you, but such explicit propaganda is going too far.

To post such an atypical picture of the government front bench on this forum is just not on.

We all know that many of them do not usually wear masks in the chamber.

This photo is likely to damage the cavalier jack the lad impression that some of these people like to portray.

It is however good to see that a couple of them are maintaining standards.

Bernard

 

[Nearholmer]

Worth a read, ideally by the entire population, but I guess that won't happen 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036

[Neil]

10 hours ago, Hobby said:

Alternative viewpoints are fine, and are not politics, but there are certain people that clearly are using this thread to make digs at the party they clearly dislike whilst ignoring what their own favourites are up to. And it seems to suit some people to allow it. ....

 

I think I should say something here. In fact I've spent most of today, off and on, thinking about how to say it.

 

Though I'm openly a leftie, on Covid I want the government to do well. In fact I want them to do outstandingly well. My criticism comes not from some tribal loyalty to the current opposition but from those times when the management of our country is of a lesser standard than would be expected of the middle management of an office supplies business. In fact I'd suggest it's an excellent idea to view any government as nothing more but nothing less than the management team tasked with ensuring the welfare of it's citizens. It makes it easy to judge sucesses (initial vaccine roll out) and failures (ppe).

 

Criticism will inevitably seem one sided; the blue lot are in charge with a thumping majority. They call the shots, make the choices, set the agenda and when things go wrong it's their fingerprints all over the levers of power. I know it must seem like they're on a hiding to nothing but politicians hope to be elected so that they can exercise power and influence the course the country takes.

 

Finally, I realise that from time to time I'll take a cheap shot, but they're at open goals and I do have the honesty to admit it. 

[john new]

5 hours ago, Hobby said:

The point I was making is that they can still be "bought", no matter how good we may think they are the political party they stand under always holds sway (or they switch to another and that has the same effect!). The best MP I've ever had was a true Independent, although voted in under one particular banner (return of our A&E) he turned out to be the best thing since sliced bread (to use a phrase!). Whenever he voted he held himself up for examination by his constituents by always explaining why he voted the way he did. People may have disagreed with his decision but couldn't fault his honesty. Sadly missed.

A big help to ensure the party line holds less sway, and MPs can vote by conscience, would be secret votes in the house. Most will vote the party way by belief but from time to time may wish to rebel. The current mediaeval system is not fit for the 21st century. There is a con to such a change though, if any MP has been bought to vote a particular way it will be less obvious.

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, Neil said:

Finally, I realise that from time to time I'll take a cheap shot, but they're at open goals and I do have the honesty to admit it. 

 

Therein lies my problem, if you'd just kept it neutral I'd be OK with it, but the bias shows. I've been discussing it offline, and my own leanings, I'll freely admit, are very slightly right of centre, according to one of those tests, only just off centre! I'm pretty neutral according to that test!

 

So it annoys me when people use an example such as the Commons mask wearing to make a cheap shot. Especially when it's blatent hypocrisy by the politicians concerned.

 

On both sides.

 

Whilst I also don't agree with the non mask wearing on the government side at least they weren't being two faced about it.

 

Two wrongs don't make a right!! 

 

 

 

As I said before I'd prefer we get back to Covid discussion. Without the politics. 

[Nearholmer]

29 minutes ago, Hobby said:

according to one of those tests,

There are online tests to tell you where you sit on the political spectrum?

 

How do they calibrate “the centre”, and are they provided by reputable organisations?

 

EDIT: Aha, I found The Political Compass, but I still have no idea of the answers to the above questions. It’s particularly open to question how “the centre” is set given that the “tool” has global access: as a western European I would expect our centre to be more libertarian than the centre in, say, China, and more to the left than in, say, the USA. Does it purport to somehow know “the centre of the world”, and if so how?

 

Intriguing, and sufficient to move the needle of my hocus pocus detector off the stop.

Edited October 29, 2021 by Nearholmer

[John M Upton]

An interesting tale I was told earlier today that just confirms my cynicism.  Apparently someone they knew took their kids out of school a week before half term informing the school they had tested positive and had to isolate.  Twenty four hours later, aforementioned kids and parents were posting pictures of themselves across Facebook on a beach in Spain.  Absolutely nothing wrong with them!!

 

 

Edited October 29, 2021 by John M Upton

[Dunsignalling]

7 hours ago, John M Upton said:

An interesting tale I was told earlier today that just confirms my cynicism.  Apparently someone they knew took their kids out of school a week before half term informing the school they had tested positive and had to isolate.  Twenty four hours later, aforementioned kids and parents were posting pictures of themselves across Facebook on a beach in Spain.  Absolutely nothing wrong with them!!

 

 

 

The only surprise there is that such occurrences have taken so long to emerge....

 

Cynic mode "on"

 

I've been wondering for a while as to how much absence from both schools and workplaces is being/has been "facilitated" by false claims of infection. 

 

Cynic mode "off"

 

John

Edited October 30, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[beast66606]

7 hours ago, John M Upton said:

An interesting tale I was told earlier today that just confirms my cynicism.  Apparently someone they knew took their kids out of school a week before half term informing the school they were ill. Twenty four hours later, aforementioned kids and parents were posting pictures of themselves across Facebook on a beach in Spain.  Absolutely nothing wrong with them!!

 

Fixed it for you so it's relevant to at least the last 50 years that I know of.

 

Edit :

(Obviously Facebook (or should that be Meta ?) can be replaced with a pack of photographs from Boots for 1970s/1980s/1990s)

Edited October 30, 2021 by beast66606

[Colin_McLeod]

7 hours ago, John M Upton said:

An interesting tale I was told earlier today that just confirms my cynicism.  Apparently someone they knew took their kids out of school a week before half term informing the school they had tested positive and had to isolate.  Twenty four hours later, aforementioned kids and parents were posting pictures of themselves across Facebook on a beach in Spain.  Absolutely nothing wrong with them!!

 

 

 

It's always possible that they did test positive but went to Spain anyway. 

[alastairq]

2 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

I've been wondering for a while as to how much absence from both schools and workplaces is being/has been "facilitated" by false claims of infection. 

 In the end, it's their kids' loss!

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Neil said:

 

I think I should say something here. In fact I've spent most of today, off and on, thinking about how to say it.

 

Though I'm openly a leftie, on Covid I want the government to do well. In fact I want them to do outstandingly well. My criticism comes not from some tribal loyalty to the current opposition but from those times when the management of our country is of a lesser standard than would be expected of the middle management of an office supplies business. In fact I'd suggest it's an excellent idea to view any government as nothing more but nothing less than the management team tasked with ensuring the welfare of it's citizens. It makes it easy to judge sucesses (initial vaccine roll out) and failures (ppe).

 

Criticism will inevitably seem one sided; the blue lot are in charge with a thumping majority. They call the shots, make the choices, set the agenda and when things go wrong it's their fingerprints all over the levers of power. I know it must seem like they're on a hiding to nothing but politicians hope to be elected so that they can exercise power and influence the course the country takes.

 

Finally, I realise that from time to time I'll take a cheap shot, but they're at open goals and I do have the honesty to admit it. 

 

For once we are in agreement, firstly its best for the country that this crisis is sorted out once and for all, or as much as you can with any virus.

 

Secondly seemingly leaders from both parties in the past have wanted to manage every minute detail, if anything has come out of this pandemic, is when you have a massive crisis get the right people involved.

 

Thirdly no one is ever going to get everything right, the trouble has been, that some have tried their hardest to find fault with everything they could, completely ignoring what went well. 

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, beast66606 said:

 

Fixed it for you so it's relevant to at least the last 50 years that I know of.

 

Edit :

(Obviously Facebook (or should that be Meta ?) can be replaced with a pack of photographs from Boots for 1970s/1980s/1990s)

 

35+ years ago when my daughter was in the infant and junior schools we took her out of school in the last week of term and went abroad for 2 weeks. Firstly it was the only way we could afford a foreign break, secondly very little learning occurred in the last week of term, thirdly its not what you do in that week that matters but what you do all year.

 

My daughter went to Grammar School then university and has excelled in her chosen career. the reason it did her no harm was the time and effort we invested in her all year. Too many parents expect the schools to do everything

 

But certainly in the south there is a very large issue in the past weeks with Senior school aged children who are the largest age group as far as infections go, followed by their parents and younger children

 

Secondly last night on the London news a senior hospital doctor said hospitalizations for covid have doubled in the past couple of weeks, almost all of which are unvaccinated. East London has one of the lowest vaccination uptakes in the country. The penny will drop one day, lets hope its soon

[EddieB]

15 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

Worth a read, ideally by the entire population, but I guess that won't happen 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59077036

I’d overlooked that in the diversion into “non-political politics”.

 

Yes, indeed that’s the kind of information that needs to be more widely appreciated.  It also sounds more credible than a Canadian University study (I think I posted a link earlier) that only found a one in six likelihood of catching the virus after a positive test within the same household.

 

Again, an example that independent scientific investigations don’t always agree.  That’s not to criticise science - far from it - it shows that science is a book still being written and we must continue to measure, learn and adjust. 

[Nearholmer]

Maybe Canadian houses are a lot bigger and people can spread out more - who knows?

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

when you have a massive crisis get the right people involved.

Very true, but not just in a crisis.

 

The real lesson ought to be to delegate to the lowest practicable level at all times, while giving those delegated to proper freedom and resource to act, and holding them accountable.

 

No large enterprise, public or private sector, works well without that, but politicians as a breed seem to struggle with the concept at times, and I sometimes think that “the Information Age” cuts against it, by giving senior leaders far too many dials to watch, knobs to twiddle, and levers to pull - it tends towards centralism.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Hobby]

Got my booster booked for Tuesday...

[boxbrownie]

16 hours ago, Neil said:

 

I think I should say something here. In fact I've spent most of today, off and on, thinking about how to say it.

Though I'm openly a leftie, on Covid I want the government to do well. In fact I want them to do outstandingly well. My criticism comes not from some tribal loyalty to the current opposition but from those times when the management of our country is of a lesser standard than would be expected of the middle management of an office supplies business.  

It was going so well……up until.