Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[Nearholmer]

A small bit of good news, which ought to help those who are genuinely needle-phobic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59657712

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rocor]

As for Boris’s plan for getting everyone to receive their booster by the End of January. I can only impart my experience of getting mine this Monday. I had been booked for the booster since early November, with a mid-morning appointment at a local Pharmacy. I was there for around half an hour, filling in the form getting the jab and sitting for fifteen minutes in case adverse effects became apparent. I have no complaints at all as to how everything was carried out.

 

The only observation that I can make, is in that time, including myself, there were only four of us there for the jab. At this rate, maybe everyone will have received the booster by the end of the century, though not necessarily this century. 

[Torper]

23 hours ago, hayfield said:

As for logistics is that more drop in centres were open, more venues were offering their premises and people were willing to wait several hours. The sad thing about this situation the urgency is being seen by the UK government but only actioned in England, what we should be asking is why is this not happening throughout the whole of the UK ?  I thought it was the National Health Service !!

 

I shouldn't really contunue to be surprised at how little people in England seem to know about the devolved countries in the UK.  There is now no such thing as "The National Health Service".  In England you have National Health England which is not the same as NHS Scotland, which is a separate body, health being a deviolved matter.  I believe the same applies in Wales and Northern Ireland.  As for urgency of boosters, it is a fact that Scotland's vaccination rates are currently the highest in the UK, and here in Angus 97% of people aged over 12 have had a first dose, 86% a second dose, and 57% a third dose or booster.  Vaccine booster appointments will be available those over 17 as from this week.  The target is to have all eligible adults "boosted" by the end of January which the government acknowleges will be challenging as it would mean nearly doubling the current rate of 40,000 boosters a day.

 

DT

[john new]

38 minutes ago, Torper said:

 

I shouldn't really contunue to be surprised at how little people in England seem to know about the devolved countries in the UK.  There is now no such thing as "The National Health Service".  In England you have National Health England which is not the same as NHS Scotland, which is a separate body, health being a deviolved matter.  I believe the same applies in Wales and Northern Ireland.  - snipped...

It never has been one proper UK national service, it always was split into individual trusts with post code variations as to treatments available something I have always disagreed with. If I added anything extra it would be too political.

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by john new
Copied the quote twice in error.

[hayfield]

1 hour ago, Torper said:

 

I shouldn't really contunue to be surprised at how little people in England seem to know about the devolved countries in the UK.  There is now no such thing as "The National Health Service".  In England you have National Health England which is not the same as NHS Scotland, which is a separate body, health being a deviolved matter.  I believe the same applies in Wales and Northern Ireland.  As for urgency of boosters, it is a fact that Scotland's vaccination rates are currently the highest in the UK, and here in Angus 97% of people aged over 12 have had a first dose, 86% a second dose, and 57% a third dose or booster.  Vaccine booster appointments will be available those over 17 as from this week.  The target is to have all eligible adults "boosted" by the end of January which the government acknowleges will be challenging as it would mean nearly doubling the current rate of 40,000 boosters a day.

 

DT

 

I am sorry but it is a National health Service and yes I do understand that each country controls its own service.

 

Given your rather sarcastic reply I am rather surprised that some contributors rather than commenting on the pro's and con's of their own service tend to deride the decisions for England, rather than look at the situation in their own area and report accordingly. As had been said. in England the situation varies quite a lot, areas like the East are doing rather well on the vaccination stakes like yourselves, but then we have areas that are not, I assume Scotland is much the same.

 

Still I will not take the bait and hope we reach the same result by the end of this year, or at least make an effort and try !! 

 

Keep well and enjoy Christmas and New Year

[Nearholmer]

8 minutes ago, hayfield said:

As had been said. in England the situation varies quite a lot, areas

The biggest determinate being the demographics.

 

Areas with a high proportion of older people have above average vaccination rates; those with a high proportion of young people have a below average vaccination rate.

[Hobby]

We've had to use the emergency services of NHS Scotland and Wales over the past few years (not A&E but close), Wales were great, Scotland started off badly (very unhelpful) but another part of it was good. Just the same as our experiences of other parts of England and also the Czech and German health services.

 

In reply to Torper, we had Nicola's full speech broadcast on R5L yesterday and she spent most of it slagging off Westminster for not doing what she wanted them to do and not giving Scotland any extra money and saying if it all went wrong it was our fault, not hers. If anyone wasn't aware that NHS Scotland was different they sure were after her diatribe.

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Hobby said:

We've had to use the emergency services of NHS Scotland and Wales over the past few years (not A&E but close), Wales were great, Scotland started off badly (very unhelpful) but another part of it was good. Just the same as our experiences of other parts of England and also the Czech and German health services.

 

In reply to Torper, we had Nicola's full speech broadcast on R5L yesterday and she spent most of it slagging off Westminster for not doing what she wanted them to do and not giving Scotland any extra money and saying if it all went wrong it was our fault, not hers. If anyone wasn't aware that NHS Scotland was different they sure were after her diatribe.

 

I have a friend in the village who is Scottish, what he thinks about Ms Sturgeon is not printable  on this site.  She is not alone in wanting more money though, Last night when talking about London's response to rolling out the booster jabs its the first time Mr Khan 

 

I for one think at times like this we should all be working in the same direction, at the same speed irrespective which government is involved, even if it means spending a bit extra. 

Edited December 15, 2021 by hayfield

[Nearholmer]

16 minutes ago, hayfield said:

not trying to score political points

Seems like he’s in a minority of one there then.

[hayfield]

I was actually taken aback, don't worry he will be back on form soon once Boris bails out Transport for London 

[Nearholmer]

On 24/02/2021 at 18:22, AY Mod said:

The previous topic was closed due to tribal opinions and combat.

 

After a topic reset please pay attention to the title to avoid future derailments.

Thats what The Man said.

 

I just sense that the regulator is wide open, and we just passed a distant that was ‘on’.

 

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by Nearholmer

[Bernard Lamb]

27 minutes ago, hayfield said:

 

I have a friend in the village who is Scottish, what he thinks about Ms Sturgeon is not printable  on this site.  She is not alone in wanting more money though, Last night when talking about London's response to rolling out the booster jabs its the first time Mr Khan has not asked foe extra money, and for once was focused on getting the job done not trying to score political points

 

I for one think at times like this we should all be working in the same direction, at the same speed irrespective which government is involved, even if it means spending a bit extra. 

I think he has just had his Christmas wish and several birthday presents all arrive at the same time.

Let folk dwell on the bad behaviour of your rival and keep your powder dry for another day seems a sensible idea, irrespective of political views it is good tactics.

Bernard

[Torper]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Still I will not take the bait and hope we reach the same result by the end of this year, or at least make an effort and try !!

 

I'm noy sure what bait was offered!  You said "The sad thing about this situation the urgency is being seen by the UK government but only actioned in England, what we should be asking is why is this not happening throughout the whole of the UK ?"  That was plainly incorrect and I merely corrected it, pointing out that another part of the UK was actually doing better than England when it came to vaccinations and that Scotland too has a programme to complete boosters as soon as possible.  It wouldn't have made any difference had that part been Scotland, Northern Ireland or Wales, but Scotland is of course the part I'm most familiar with.  I think there's a lot to be said for the UK all following the same policy but the problem would be in determining whose policy that should be - would everyone in England be happy to follow Scotland's or Wales' policy?

 

DT

[Hobby]

Or Northern Ireland's...

 

Perhaps it's one of those things that need to be looked at when it is all over...

[AY Mod]

I think the topic is heading for lockdown for several reasons. There may be a need for a further topic relating to where we are now.

[Mark Saunders]

1 minute ago, AY Mod said:

I think the topic is heading for lockdown for several reasons. There may be a need for a further topic relating to where we are now.

It will just end up the same!

[AY Mod]

6 minutes ago, Mark Saunders said:

It will just end up the same!

 

Yes, if people do and say the same things.

[boxbrownie]

17 minutes ago, AY Mod said:

 

Yes, if people do and say the same things.

Aww I was looking forward to seeing the painted blue faces and yelling 

[adb968008]

22 hours ago, Andy Kirkham said:

This is often postulated, but other authorities assert  that, although some viruses have declined in virulence, it's not a rule that they always do.

 

…

. By the time the host dies, most of the replication has already taken place, so the death of the host doesn't thwart the transmission of the virus.

 

https://theconversation.com/will-coronavirus-really-evolve-to-become-less-deadly-153817

 

Always revert back to Charles Darwin…

 

Even if Covid remains unchanged and as deadly as it is…

 

if all those who cannot adapt to Covid die, society will only exist of those people who can… then its no longer deadly, even if the virus itself is unchanged.

 

Thats evolution. Thats why elderly were less impacted by H1N1 throughout much of the 20th century, they were exposed in 1918-1921, those unable perished.

 

Imo Covids effect on humans will evolve based on repeated immunity and the bodies reaction to it, but until then, those who cannot adapt, low vaccine response etc will perish, until the numbers of those who can adapt (via nature or science) are such that covid can no longer thrive in humans.

 

Covids own evolution will depend on being able to attach to a host that doesn't detect it for long enough to propogate. It may need to make trade-offs to retain that ability, Omicron is one successful example.. but its statistically improbable that a variant can forever spread easier that the previous with each iteration, and as humans recognise it and react faster to its presence theres a fail point which it cannot pass, then it rapidly declines and needs to adapt quickly to another host species or another immunity evading pattern before its eradicated in that particular locality.

 

Coming to deaths, its also possible imo Omicron may not be less deadly, but mis interpreted because those who are impacted by covid may have already died previously in an earlier wave.

 

i’m guessing from the high infection stories that Omicrons success is in volumes of particles created, not in duration of symptonless spread… that 15 minute rule, or even the high ventilation environment may not be relevent… right now winter and particularly Christmas indoor gatherings are a particular weakness

 

Edited December 15, 2021 by adb968008

[woodenhead]

Looking like Christmas day will be just three people again, we were planning on having 7 in the house.  But, given my wife works in schools that are full of infected children, younger sibling works in a major shopping centre and eldest sibling and partner like to socialise and live with 4 other people, then I am not sure a family gathering including two elderly vulnerable people is a good idea now.

 

Anyone could get infected between now and Christmas day, and the longer I leave it to make a decision the harder it becomes for them to make alternative arrangements, I don't think my mother in law is happy but I think she is not realising the risk at the moment.

 

[Reorte]

7 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

A small bit of good news, which ought to help those who are genuinely needle-phobic.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-england-cambridgeshire-59657712

 Very Star Trek!

[boxbrownie]

2 minutes ago, woodenhead said:

Looking like Christmas day will be just three people again, we were planning on having 7 in the house.  But, given my wife works in schools that are full of infected children, younger sibling works in a major shopping centre and eldest sibling and partner like to socialise and live with 4 other people, then I am not sure a family gathering including two elderly vulnerable people is a good idea now.

 

Anyone could get infected between now and Christmas day, and the longer I leave it to make a decision the harder it becomes for them to make alternative arrangements, I don't think my mother in law is happy but I think she is not realising the risk at the moment.

 

Well we gave up on seeing all the little’uns a week or so ago, they all have coughs and sniffles and who knows what else presently so it’s just us and we have just invited our neighbour in for Xmas lunch ( as we did last year) she is alone and not as grumpy when drunk as the other neighbours think 

 

But we do have a nice visit arranged starting tomorrow from our six year old Grand daughter in Norfolk, Mrs BB is going up on the GWR rattler (first class of course) to pick her up at Paddington and then a straight back….that’s a long ride!  She is all tested and clear for the past few days so not much else we can do but hope the train will be empty, part of the reason to go first, apart from the slightly less park like seats!  Going back Christmas Eve just in time to catch Santa leaving pressies at her home.

 

We’ll see if we get away with it.

[EddieB]

43 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

i’m guessing from the high infection stories that Omicrons success is in volumes of particles created, not in duration of symptonless spread… that 15 minute rule, or even the high ventilation environment may not be relevent… right now winter and particularly Christmas indoor gatherings are a particular weakness

 

As posted a couple of days ago, our experience suggests around three days for symptoms to appear and negative LFTs during that time.  Omicron assumed, but waiting for confirmation.

[Nearholmer]

51 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

Coming to deaths, its also possible imo Omicron may not be less deadly, but mis interpreted because those who are impacted by covid may have already died previously in an earlier wave.

Prof Whitty was cautioning earlier that any apparent lower severity than Delta seen in SA may be at least partly due to the fact that there Delta hit before widespread vaccination, and Omicron after.

 

Regarding your point: worth considering that time will continue to serve a steady stream of vulnerable people, simply because we are all getting older by the minute, and our general immune systems gradually run out of steam. (I’m not doing my reputation for dourness much good here, am I?)
 

[EddieB]

There have been papers published in Nature, from much earlier this year, showing that Covid-derived immunity steadily declines over the first four-month period, but that in most cases the body retains a much longer "memory" of residual immunity.  While some authors conclude that boosting that immunity is helpful, or to guard against new variants, there is still room for further studies and we perhaps under-estimate our ability to retain protection.