Covid - coming out of Lockdown 3 - no politics, less opinion and more facts and information.

[John M Upton]

Netherlands goes into full lockdown from midnight tonight, everything shut and Christmas cancelled. 

 

Only a matter of time I reckon before Boris is overruled and we follow suit. 

[Guest]

3 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

People will be queuing round the block for “outdoor service at restaurants” in January, I should imagine. Who wouldn’t want to eat a fine meal in a whipping NE wind, with sleet whistling past their ears, and the waiter dressed in a parka and fur-lined mittens?

 

 

Is a solved problem I think.

 

[RJS1977]

I did visit one of our local garden centres last year to discuss the possibility of holding an exhibition in the 'sheds and greenhouses' section. Unfortunately nothing came of it, partly because it wasn't something they were insured for, and partly due to the difficulties of running mains electricity to all the different outbuildings.

[Nearholmer]

29 minutes ago, 30801 said:

Is a solved problem I think.

 

Do you remeber all those definitional arguments about what did and didn't constitute "outdoors" last year, with some restaurants being told to put more ventilation holes in the things they'd built? Presumably an almost sealed bubble containing only members of your bubble would be have been OK.

 

Anyway, you won't catch me having dinner in a greenhouse in January, although I might succumb to sheltering in one for half an hour for a coffee stop during a bike ride, just to get out of the wind.

[john new]

On 17/12/2021 at 17:02, Nearholmer said:

Its a very good question, and all that I can go on is the suggestion from multiple sources that typically only half of cases are captured through people being tested and found positive. Of course, if omicron is a very mild strain, oodles of us might catch it and not know unless we’re doing routine, or ‘pre-gathering’, as opposed to symptom-prompted, LFT.

 

Assuming that most employers, certainly any of significant size, are requiring their staff to do routine LFT before coming to work, we could get the effect of there being staff shortages in key roles as people isolate, even if the symptoms are mild to un-noticed for most people, which would pose a few questions along the lines: why are people staying at home if they feel fine?

 

No idea, since nobody quite seems to know whether Delta confers useful immunity against omicron, and for how long.

On a long car run today, several traffic bulletins mentioning public transport cancellations due to staff shortages so I think you observation may be already occurring.

[Ron Ron Ron]

Germany is tightening its restrictions and there are calls for further, stricter measures to be enforced.

Italy and Portugal are also edging that way, in the face of a rapid increase in the number of people being found to have the Omicron variant.

[hayfield]

13 hours ago, Ron Ron Ron said:

Germany is tightening its restrictions and there are calls for further, stricter measures to be enforced.

Italy and Portugal are also edging that way, in the face of a rapid increase in the number of people being found to have the Omicron variant.

 

The trouble is that borders now are open between most countries in Europe, this nasty disease both fails to recognise them, is now super contagious and many show little of no infection effects certainly in the early stages.

 

Its time for being very cautious, and lets hope that it is as mild as expected and our vaccination regime is as good as its hoped it is.

Edited December 19, 2021 by hayfield

[Oldddudders]

Germany has now closed the border to Brits. Just like France, German citizens and residents only are excepted. And they must quarantine for a fortnight, irrespective of vaccination status.

 

You have to wonder whether this would have been mandated to the same extent pre-Brexit.  

[Nearholmer]

It’s worth looking at the front pages of the right-of-centre newspapers today, to get some idea of the struggle for the steering-wheel that’s going-on at the front of the speeding bus that we are all riding on, downhill towards a hairpin bend.
 

Either  that, or there isn’t such a struggle going-on, but one paper especially would really like there to be, so is talking one up.

[Andy Kirkham]

2 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

the struggle for the steering-wheel that’s going-on at the front of the speeding bus that we are all riding on, downhill towards a hairpin bend.

A powerfully evocative (and unsettling) image! 

[Hobby]

1 hour ago, hayfield said:

Its time for being very cautious, and lets hope that it is as mild as expected and our vaccination regime is as good as its hopped it is.

 

On the beer already, John?!

 

35 minutes ago, Andy Kirkham said:

A powerfully evocative (and unsettling) image! 

 

And a false one, though typical of the poster. I'd suggest that his choice of phraseology is as bad as the newspapers he is criticising.

[andyman7]

16 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Netherlands goes into full lockdown from midnight tonight, everything shut and Christmas cancelled. 

 

Only a matter of time I reckon before Boris is overruled and we follow suit. 

Overruled by whom? We're still supposed to be a parliamentary democracy.

[EddieB]

7 minutes ago, andyman7 said:

Overruled by whom? We're still supposed to be a parliamentary democracy.

Christian Horner?

[Oldddudders]

16 hours ago, John M Upton said:

Only a matter of time I reckon before Boris is overruled and we follow suit. 

Lord Frost having resigned, has said he feels the country is being closed down by stealth and this is wrong. There seems to be a groundswell of agreement among backbenchers in his party, so, far from Boris being overruled by scientific opinion, he may be under greater pressure to keep things fluid. 

[Ron Ron Ron]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Germany has now closed the border to Brits. Just like France, German citizens and residents only are excepted. And they must quarantine for a fortnight, irrespective of vaccination status.

 

You have to wonder whether this would have been mandated to the same extent pre-Brexit.  

German ministers are calling for the same restrictions to apply to travellers from France and any other new variant, high case number country.

They are up against pressure to maintain EU unity, which was thrown out of the window with the first wave in March, April, May 2020, when several borders were closed temporarily.

 

The virus doesn’t give two hoots about political ideals or principles, democratic process, civil and human rights or morality.

 

 

.

[Nearholmer]

1 hour ago, Hobby said:

And a false one, though typical of the poster. I'd suggest that his choice of phraseology is as bad as the newspapers he is criticising.

I don’t think I criticised them, merely recommended that people look at them.

 

Either there is a struggle for dominance of viewpoint going on at the top of HMG at the moment, as events of the past week, and the newspapers, seem to suggest, or there isn’t.

 

TBH, I hope it is all a confection to sell papers, because now really isn’t the time. Steady pair of hands on the wheel is what is needed on a difficult stretch of road, and it almost doesn’t matter which pair of hands, so long as they’re steady.

[EddieB]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

It’s worth looking at the front pages of the right-of-centre newspapers today, to get some idea of the struggle for the steering-wheel that’s going-on at the front of the speeding bus that we are all riding on, downhill towards a hairpin.

On the other hand, do you always trust those selling the tickets for the ghost train?

[Not Jeremy]

Quote

Either there is a struggle for dominance of viewpoint going on at the top of HMG at the moment, as events of the past week, and the newspapers, seem to suggest, or there isn’t.

 

Gosh, that's a complicated concept your hitting us with there, perhaps you could explain further for us poor  saps who don't share your perspicacity and insight.

 

Not Jeremy

 

[hayfield]

2 hours ago, Nearholmer said:

It’s worth looking at the front pages of the right-of-centre newspapers today, to get some idea of the struggle for the steering-wheel that’s going-on at the front of the speeding bus that we are all riding on, downhill towards a hairpin bend.
 

Either  that, or there isn’t such a struggle going-on, but one paper especially would really like there to be, so is talking one up.

 

What do you expect from news papers and their headlines, which are designed to sell papers. The truth is sometimes far less interesting

[boxbrownie]

1 hour ago, Oldddudders said:

Lord Frost having resigned, has said he feels the country is being closed down by stealth and this is wrong.

Oddly on the news today they are reporting he is going out of principal, the principal being he believes in a lightly regulated low tax country, and the direction of travel is going in the other direction. It was in his resignation letter.

 

So more to do with his beliefs regarding the Conservative party than Covid it appears.

[Rivercider]

Whether we are locked down or not I think in practice many folk are already cancelling or changing plans for the festive period.

 

Mrs Rivercider's niece lives in London, the gastropub she works in is currently closed, partly due to continual staff sickness due to Covid, but also a fall-off in custom. Meanwhile two of her housemates have now tested positive so she has cancelled her trip back home for Xmas.

Mrs Rivercider's son is a fast food delivery driver here in Weston, several days this week he has been the only driver on duty (due to Covid) so has been working from open to close.

We have booked tickets (with other family members) for a music event on the Pier this week but are seriously thinking of staying home as we have plans to meet other (older) family members over Xmas.

 

cheers

[WessexEclectic]

Fraser Nelson, editor of the Spectator, has been having a Twitter conversation with Graham Medley, chair of the Sage Modelling committee.

 

Some interesting facts have emerged.

 

Spectator Article

Covid_Models_Speccie.pdf

[Neil]

3 minutes ago, WessexEclectic said:

Fraser Nelson, editor of the Spectator, has been having a Twitter conversation with Graham Medley, chair of the Sage Modelling committee.

 

Some interesting facts have emerged.

 

Spectator Article

Covid_Models_Speccie.pdf 1.37 MB · 0 downloads

 

Got to be careful, Fraser Nelson tends to have libertarian instincts; also most boffins urge caution as the severity of Omicron in the UK is currently unknown and that it's not safe to extrapolate South African data.

[Neil]

At a personal level, I think I can see which way the wind is blowing. I'll be retreating into my bunker here in mid-Wales. If I'm wrong then there's no loss but if I'm right there's an awful lot to gain.

[crompton 33]

What where we told by Doris NO more lockdowns as we have got to live with it. They just want to controll us but they can do what they like .One rule for them and one for us .

Edited December 19, 2021 by crompton 33