Left for Titfield!

[Captain Kernow]

7 minutes ago, Not Jeremy said:

Which most probably creates an Escher like nit pickers conundrum

And it's not as if there aren't enough nits being picked at the moment, too.

 

 

[AY Mod]

8 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

And it's not as if there aren't enough nits being picked at the moment, too.

 

It's the season for it now the kids are back at school.

[Captain Kernow]

I wonder if they are running any nit pickers specials from Charing Cross down to the Kent nit growing fields?

 

[AY Mod]

45 minutes ago, Captain Kernow said:

the Kent nit growing fields?

 

In other agricultural news it seems they may have been caught on the hop(s) down that way and the grapes may not be quite as sweet as usual.

[boxbrownie]

We really do still require a “groan” button Andy.......

Edited March 13, 2021 by boxbrownie

[Edwardian]

1 hour ago, John Harris said:

 

Perhaps the recent interest in early (Era One) models will prompt an re-issue of "Der Adler",

Or some of the Bachmann early US locomotives?

 

 

 

jch

 

Or perhaps this new found interest in early railways will lead manufacturers to abandon the entirely pointless and unhelpful concept of 'Era 1', which encompasses railways from the Year Dot to both the Stirling Single and Hardwicke (as originally built).

 

Oh, but wait, you can't really have an Era 0 or Era -1 for early railways.  Fortunately, a simple solution occurs; just abandon the whole moronic Era system? 

 

Sorry, but every time someone uses the phrase 'Era 1', I think 'duh!'

 

Nice post otherwise 

 

 

[6990WitherslackHall]

If this is true, it is something I would definitely like to see. Also didn't the now non existent DJ models do a 14xx at some point?

Edited March 13, 2021 by 6990WitherslackHall

[AY Mod]

16 minutes ago, 6990WitherslackHall said:

Also didn't the now non existent DJ models do a 14xx at some point?

 

It was Hattons, they commissioned it from DJ Models - already covered in invisible ink within earlier posts.

[luke_stevens]

I have some stuff for Era 0 modelling...

 

 Not my image "i.imgur. com/cOc7Xyf.jpg" but no reference to who took it...

 

Luke

 

[luke_stevens]

Should be possible to convert this to horses...

 

 

https://www.magnorail.com/en

 

Luke

Edited March 13, 2021 by luke_stevens
Image addition

[Nick Gough]

1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

I have some stuff for Era 0 modelling...

 

 Not my image "i.imgur. com/cOc7Xyf.jpg" but no reference to who took it...

 

Luke

 

Is that stationmaster Frankie Howard in the background?

[luke_stevens]

Titter yea not!

[RichardT]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Fortunately, a simple solution occurs; just abandon the whole moronic Era system? 

I wish fully to associate myself with the remarks of the last speaker. [Resumed seat to cries of “hear hear” and “shame”]
 

Richard T

Edited March 13, 2021 by RichardT
Punctuation

[luke_stevens]

9 hours ago, Edwardian said:

 

Fortunately, a simple solution occurs; just abandon the whole moronic Era system? 

 

 

Originally it is a German system (a way of dealing with WW2) .

 

NEM 806 D specified subscripts, for example (Germany)

 

1a 1835-1875
1b 1875-1995
1c 1895-1910
1d 1910-1920
 

So Rocket is 1a, End of GWR Broad gauge is 1b, WD narrow gauge in WW1 is 1c, and Arthurs and Castles are 1d.

 

But Bachmann decider to do "their own" version which hasn't helped at all!

 

http://www.ccbrailroad.com.ar/manuales/nem/normas nem.pdf

 

[Edwardian]

7 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Originally it is a German system (a way of dealing with WW2) .

 

NEM 806 D specified subscripts, for example (Germany)

 

1a 1835-1875
1b 1875-1995
1c 1895-1910
1d 1910-1920
 

So Rocket is 1a, End of GWR Broad gauge is 1b, WD narrow gauge in WW1 is 1c, and Arthurs and Castles are 1d.

 

But Bachmann decider to do "their own" version which hasn't helped at all!

 

http://www.ccbrailroad.com.ar/manuales/nem/normas nem.pdf

 

 

I rather guessed that it came from Germany and was a way of avoiding uncomfortable dates in the Twentieth Century.

 

Split it down how you will, its only purpose in the UK context is to imply that certain models are compatible when they are not necessarily so.

 

Rather than talk in meaningless 'Eras' manufacturers might tell us the dates their models represent. You don't need to know the 'Era' if you know the actual dates.

 

As it is, the Era system is redundant nonsense; it neither fools the informed nor helps the uninformed. 

[luke_stevens]

It's just meant to be a way of making things easier for those who just like running trains: An Era IV loco is most likely to be running with Era IV wagons. Several European manufactures now put the era on the label at the end of the box. It's been around over 50years and seem to be useful for most customers.

 

In the British context Bachmann reinvented it on their terms.

 

For someone starting out or with out much interest / experience is is a reasonable rule-of-thumb. On the the other hand for an exhibition layout or a finescale model I would expect more attention to detail.

 

Luke

[Dunsignalling]

1 hour ago, luke_stevens said:

 

Originally it is a German system (a way of dealing with WW2) .

 

NEM 806 D specified subscripts, for example (Germany)

 

1a 1835-1875
1b 1875-1995
1c 1895-1910
1d 1910-1920
 

So Rocket is 1a, End of GWR Broad gauge is 1b, WD narrow gauge in WW1 is 1c, and Arthurs and Castles are 1d.

 

But Bachmann decider to do "their own" version which hasn't helped at all!

 

http://www.ccbrailroad.com.ar/manuales/nem/normas nem.pdf

 

Bachmann have form when it comes to half-arsed application of things NEM. 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[Andy Hayter]

50 minutes ago, Edwardian said:

 

I rather guessed that it came from Germany and was a way of avoiding uncomfortable dates in the Twentieth Century.

 

Split it down how you will, its only purpose in the UK context is to imply that certain models are compatible when they are not necessarily so.

 

Rather than talk in meaningless 'Eras' manufacturers might tell us the dates their models represent. You don't need to know the 'Era' if you know the actual dates.

 

As it is, the Era system is redundant nonsense; it neither fools the informed nor helps the uninformed. 

 

I think you miss the point James.  The era system was never meant to be definitive.

It is like a road Atlas.  Get gets me to Barnard Castle but cannot get ne to 22 station road.

 

It has its place.  That place is limited.  Never mind the problems or era 1 covering just over 100 years Trevithick to grouping.  For my French railways I have a PLM 241 C with a paraboloid smoke box faring - era 2.  I also have an early PLM internal combustion 20 shunter - also era 2.  However the two could never have been seen side by side.   The C lost its streamline smoke box cover in 31 and the shunter did not appear until 35.

 

Epochs/Eras gets in you in the right area but further research is always needed for any precision.  

[Edwardian]

9 minutes ago, Andy Hayter said:

 

I think you miss the point James.  The era system was never meant to be definitive.

It is like a road Atlas.  Get gets me to Barnard Castle but cannot get ne to 22 station road.

 

It has its place.  That place is limited.  Never mind the problems or era 1 covering just over 100 years Trevithick to grouping.  For my French railways I have a PLM 241 C with a paraboloid smoke box faring - era 2.  I also have an early PLM internal combustion 20 shunter - also era 2.  However the two could never have been seen side by side.   The C lost its streamline smoke box cover in 31 and the shunter did not appear until 35.

 

Epochs/Eras gets in you in the right area but further research is always needed for any precision.  

 

Actually, Andy, I think you're making the point for me.

 

Dates are helpful, Eras are neither use nor ornament!

[Pmorgancym]

Given their history for lateral thinking, I take it rapidly are announcing a 14xx

[Edwardian]

53 minutes ago, luke_stevens said:

It's just meant to be a way of making things easier for those who just like running trains: An Era IV loco is most likely to be running with Era IV wagons. Several European manufactures now put the era on the label at the end of the box. It's been around over 50years and seem to be useful for most customers.

 

In the British context Bachmann reinvented it on their terms.

 

For someone starting out or with out much interest / experience is is a reasonable rule-of-thumb. On the the other hand for an exhibition layout or a finescale model I would expect more attention to detail.

 

Luke

 

Great, I'll apply that reasonable rule of thumb, and just as soon as I've sorted out the couplings, I'll be hitching up my Era 1 Hornby Rocket coaches to my Era 1 Rapido Stirling Single.

 

It's all 'pioneering', right?

 

I'm sorry, but it's just a lazy way of thinking. Why anyone so uninterested in a prototype that they will buy a model of it with no clue as to what it is is a something that would never ceases to amaze me. You don't need to be a finescale exhibitor to want to know something about the subject, surely? 

 

Think about how much more useful putting the dates something actually ran in the modelled condition on the box might be.

[Andy Hayter]

1 hour ago, Edwardian said:

 

Actually, Andy, I think you're making the point for me.

 

Dates are helpful, Eras are neither use nor ornament!

 

Dates are of course definitive.  The Cognoscenti will of course have the precise date advantage. 

But dates is what we don't get from manufacturers.  Build dates - probably.  Scrapping dates maybe - but try and look for dates (even indicative) of when liveries changed.  Try it for example with the Rails Precedent variants - who I chose not as a bad example but actually one of the better ones.  You know pretty much when the liveries changed as do I; but does Joe Ordinary Modeller?

There are perhaps 500000 model railway fans throughout Europe.  Of those perhaps one half are not bothered about running compatible things together.  For the remained perhaps 10% are like thee and me and take the trouble over precise dates (and perhaps then knowingly bend them).  The remainder need something to broadly guide them.  Precise it is not but I propose useful nevertheless.

Buying my era 2 PLM (French) models, (sorry I know that offends you), I do find the use of era useful since it allows me to avoid buying an almost identical model in era 3 with the same basic colours but labelled SNCF and not PLM.   Descriptions and pictures are in many case dire compared with UK offerings.  Mistakes are easy to make - ask me how I know.

 

I accept that eras is a broad brush system lacking precision but to castigate it as having no worth at all is in my opinion a self centred view of the world.

Edited March 13, 2021 by Andy Hayter
typo

[MarcD]

This era thing only makes sense for date of build and in some cases not even that. The Dapol o gauge terriers in in LBSCR Improved engine green livery and marsh livery being a case in point. Both are.sold as era 1. The loco painted in the "green" livery are all fitted with condensing gear so date from 1875 to 1895, those in the brown livery from 1906 and "Fenchurch" is in a a mash up livery. That was only used when preserved. Yet they are all lumped together. 

If manufacturer's put dates the dates the models are in the form  it would have stopped me buying a "Fenchurch" with its mash up livery. I would have bought another IEG one and renamed it. 

As a side my layout is now LBSCR 1890-95 due to the date of the locos.

 

Marc

[Dunsignalling]

Basically, then, the Era system is aimed at people who have a vague desire to avoid anachronisms, but don't care enough about their chosen prototype to bother studying it. In short, a method of ensuring things can't be worse than half-wrong most of the time.

 

However, in the real world, eras overlapped and adhering rigidly to the system is as likely to exclude valid combinations as erroneous ones. Geography is of at least equal importance and if one builds a model of (say) Exeter Central in 1950 and fancies a Southern 4-4-0 to run on it, there's no substitute for knowing that a T9 is right and a D Class isn't. Eras don't pick that up whereas they would discourage the legitimate deployment of a few coaches still labelled "Southern". 

 

For me, the difference between a model railway and a train set is that an effort is made to create a cohesive whole, not just run a random mix of stuff we fancy. The beauty of that is that, having taken the trouble to do the first, it's also possible to "suspend the rules" and do the latter whenever we want. Funny Nights and/or Funny Trains have not been uncommon on some of the finest layouts.

 

Thus, a model railway can become a train set whenever the mood takes us, but successfully doing things the other way round is next to impossible.

 

John   

 

 

 

 

Edited March 14, 2021 by Dunsignalling

[jcm@gwr]

And very little of the last few pages have discussed which of the possible

options Rapido are going for, will it be Lion, a 14xx, or something else?