Chuffnell Regis

[BWsTrains]

50 minutes ago, Graham T said:

Thanks for all the advice gents.  Lots to think about!  I will need to do plenty of research when I get onsite before I commit myself.  

 

@Nick C, do you have any idea how much the building expands and contracts by?  I'm wondering about having the layout free-standing on adjustable legs.  So it would fill most of the space up to the walls of the structure, but not actually be attached to them.

 

I think its expansion / contraction of  the layout superstructure you should focus on. The answer primarily depends on movements in relative humidity and the materials you use to build the structure. Even the hardest of commercial timbers will shrink and expand as relative humidity changes, softwoods are far worse. Some high quality laminates might provide a solution but at a cost.

 

Where we live never gets prolonged humidity UK style but our (very) hardwood timber framed house still moves around swelling and contracting with the seasons, enough to give us the occasional crack in plaster board. 

 

Laid on a timber frame, even fractions of a mm have the potential to mess with your track. I'll send you a link (PM) to give you an example of how catastrophic it can be for layout design.

 

[sjrixon]

1 hour ago, Graham T said:

Thanks for all the advice gents.  Lots to think about!  I will need to do plenty of research when I get onsite before I commit myself.  

 

@Nick C, do you have any idea how much the building expands and contracts by?  I'm wondering about having the layout free-standing on adjustable legs.  So it would fill most of the space up to the walls of the structure, but not actually be attached to them.

Certainly do..

 

I used mine for 3 years, daily without issue. The advantage with the Dunster one I had, are the walls are insulated themselves, it's part of the design. That goes for the roof and floor too. I also followed their guidance in treating the wood with some very expensive wood preservative. No issues with opening and closing doors in those 3 years.

 

I had an oil radiator on an Alexa controlled switch. Means I could flick it on an hour before I wanted to use the room, nice and snug, even during the snow.

 

We then moved house - I still miss my garden room.. 

 

 

 

[Nick C]

12 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

Certainly do..

 

I used mine for 3 years, daily without issue. The advantage with the Dunster one I had, are the walls are insulated themselves, it's part of the design. That goes for the roof and floor too. I also followed their guidance in treating the wood with some very expensive wood preservative. No issues with opening and closing doors in those 3 years.

 

I had an oil radiator on an Alexa controlled switch. Means I could flick it on an hour before I wanted to use the room, nice and snug, even during the snow.

Wheras the major disadvantage of the Dunster one I have is that the wall aren't sufficiently insulated - they claim they are as part of the design, but 44mm of wood does not give enough insulation to be of any use in a UK climate, and the nature of the design makes it impossible to add any more - wheras a framed design can have 100mm of PIR all round.

 

It's cold, it's damp, the roof leaked until I replaced it, the doors stick. Whether the original owner used the right preservative I don't know, but I really wouldn't recommend anyone buy one.

[Graham T]

16 minutes ago, BWsTrains said:

 

I think its expansion / contraction of  the layout superstructure you should focus on. The answer primarily depends on movements in relative humidity and the materials you use to build the structure. Even the hardest of commercial timbers will shrink and expand as relative humidity changes, softwoods are far worse. Some high quality laminates might provide a solution but at a cost.

 

Where we live never gets prolonged humidity UK style but our (very) hardwood timber framed house still moves around swelling and contracting with the seasons, enough to give us the occasional crack in plaster board. 

 

Laid on a timber frame, even fractions of a mm have the potential to mess with your track. I'll send you a link (PM) to give you an example of how catastrophic it can be for layout design.

 

 

15 minutes ago, sjrixon said:

Certainly do..

 

I used mine for 3 years, daily without issue. The advantage with the Dunster one I had, are the walls are insulated themselves, it's part of the design. That goes for the roof and floor too. I also followed their guidance in treating the wood with some very expensive wood preservative. No issues with opening and closing doors in those 3 years.

 

I had an oil radiator on an Alexa controlled switch. Means I could flick it on an hour before I wanted to use the room, nice and snug, even during the snow.

 

We then moved house - I still miss my garden room.. 

 

 

 

 

Two ends of the spectrum there it seems to me!  As mentioned, lots and lots of research still required.  Preservatives, insulation, heating, dehumidifiers...

 

And I haven't signed a contract yet anyway 🙃

[Harlequin]

Just now, Nick C said:

Wheras the major disadvantage of the Dunster one I have is that the wall aren't sufficiently insulated - they claim they are as part of the design, but 44mm of wood does not give enough insulation to be of any use in a UK climate, and the nature of the design makes it impossible to add any more - wheras a framed design can have 100mm of PIR all round.

 

It's cold, it's damp, the roof leaked until I replaced it, the doors stick. Whether the original owner used the right preservative I don't know, but I really wouldn't recommend anyone buy one.

 

Exactly.

 

The way to get a warm, dry, stable, energy efficient structure is to have the framing and the structural shell inside the insulation layer and a breather membrane outside of that. (Although I would avoid petrochemical-derived insulation as far as possible.)

 

 

[BroadLeaves]

There's a very simple solution to this and the root cause of all the problems is a complete lack of proper priorities. You live in the Dunster cabin. The railway fills the house...

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of the OO scale funicular going up the stairs!

[longchap]

6 minutes ago, BroadLeaves said:

There's a very simple solution to this and the root cause of all the problems is a complete lack of proper priorities. You live in the Dunster cabin. The railway fills the house...

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of the OO scale funicular going up the stairs!

Brilliant solution !

[Graham T]

6 minutes ago, BroadLeaves said:

There's a very simple solution to this and the root cause of all the problems is a complete lack of proper priorities. You live in the Dunster cabin. The railway fills the house...

I'm looking forward to seeing the pictures of the OO scale funicular going up the stairs!

 

Nice 😀  Did you miss my earlier comment about being tempted to buy a 30 x 16 foot garage, that happened to come with a house thrown in?

[Andy Keane]

One option with outbuildings is to dry line them with modern foam block insulation and a membrane. This makes a huge difference and while it takes up around four to six inches off the dimensions it can make the whole space much better for your modelling. Also if erecting such a building from new you can put a damp proof membrane into the concrete base slab quite easily.

Andy

[JustinDean]

I’ve built a few garden recording studios for clients - photos below of the last one I made. 
There’s a few considerations, some already pointed out. Permitted development within Planning restricts you to a structure covering up to 15m2. The shed below is 5m X 3m. Anything above that requires planning permission. 
Mount it on a concrete pad. 
For walls I used larch cladding over timber lathes. DPM layer over OSB board all mounted  on 2x4” stud frames filled with Kingspan insulation and joints finished with aluminium tape. Inner boarding could be any decent hard sheet that will take screws etc for mounting stuff. 
Floors had exactly the same treatment. Stud, Kingspan, DPM, then OSB board. Insulating fibre boards went on top followed by electric underfloor heating in the form of a roll out mat. This stuff is cheap to buy, easy to install and most importantly cheap to run! Laminate floor went over that. 
Same construction for the roof only the topside I used one of the new rubber sheet systems which is glued in place then trimmed. Decent ones are guaranteed for 50 years. Guttering to make sure water is carried away from the building. One of the most important parts is effective ventilation as condensation can be an issue. Plus you need to breathe.  I used a cheap motor/pipe system that growers of a certain smokable plant like to use. 
This shed also has an extra ‘floating’ room within the structure I’ve just described for its sound proofing qualities which you wouldn’t need, and the whole shebang cost around £7k in materials. You could knock off about £1500-£2k by eliminating the inner room.

Hope this is helpful!

 

Jay

 

[Nick C]

8 hours ago, JustinDean said:

I’ve built a few garden recording studios for clients - photos below of the last one I made. 
There’s a few considerations, some already pointed out. Permitted development within Planning restricts you to a structure covering up to 15m2. The shed below is 5m X 3m. Anything above that requires planning permission. 
Mount it on a concrete pad. 
For walls I used larch cladding over timber lathes. DPM layer over OSB board all mounted  on 2x4” stud frames filled with Kingspan insulation and joints finished with aluminium tape. Inner boarding could be any decent hard sheet that will take screws etc for mounting stuff. 
Floors had exactly the same treatment. Stud, Kingspan, DPM, then OSB board. Insulating fibre boards went on top followed by electric underfloor heating in the form of a roll out mat. This stuff is cheap to buy, easy to install and most importantly cheap to run! Laminate floor went over that. 
Same construction for the roof only the topside I used one of the new rubber sheet systems which is glued in place then trimmed. Decent ones are guaranteed for 50 years. Guttering to make sure water is carried away from the building.

 

That's how I'd go about it. On the planning side, as usual with such things there's a lot of "it depends" - between 15m2 and 30m2 can also be allowed under permitted development but might require building regs approval. Check with the local council first!

[JustinDean]

40 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

That's how I'd go about it. On the planning side, as usual with such things there's a lot of "it depends" - between 15m2 and 30m2 can also be allowed under permitted development but might require building regs approval. Check with the local council first!

Yes, sorry, I should’ve said to check with the LA as they do sometimes vary. Derbyshire is restricted to 15m2

 

Jay

[Graham T]

9 hours ago, JustinDean said:

I’ve built a few garden recording studios for clients - photos below of the last one I made. 
There’s a few considerations, some already pointed out. Permitted development within Planning restricts you to a structure covering up to 15m2. The shed below is 5m X 3m. Anything above that requires planning permission. 
Mount it on a concrete pad. 
For walls I used larch cladding over timber lathes. DPM layer over OSB board all mounted  on 2x4” stud frames filled with Kingspan insulation and joints finished with aluminium tape. Inner boarding could be any decent hard sheet that will take screws etc for mounting stuff. 
Floors had exactly the same treatment. Stud, Kingspan, DPM, then OSB board. Insulating fibre boards went on top followed by electric underfloor heating in the form of a roll out mat. This stuff is cheap to buy, easy to install and most importantly cheap to run! Laminate floor went over that. 
Same construction for the roof only the topside I used one of the new rubber sheet systems which is glued in place then trimmed. Decent ones are guaranteed for 50 years. Guttering to make sure water is carried away from the building. One of the most important parts is effective ventilation as condensation can be an issue. Plus you need to breathe.  I used a cheap motor/pipe system that growers of a certain smokable plant like to use. 
This shed also has an extra ‘floating’ room within the structure I’ve just described for its sound proofing qualities which you wouldn’t need, and the whole shebang cost around £7k in materials. You could knock off about £1500-£2k by eliminating the inner room.

Hope this is helpful!

 

Jay

 

 

39 minutes ago, Nick C said:

 

That's how I'd go about it. On the planning side, as usual with such things there's a lot of "it depends" - between 15m2 and 30m2 can also be allowed under permitted development but might require building regs approval. Check with the local council first!

 

Thank you both for the inputs - really useful.  As mentioned I have a garage that I could potentially use, although it would also need insulation and so on I think.  That measures 18 x 8 feet (about 5.5 x 2.4 m), so if I opt for a new building then it would have to be larger than that.  From my limited research so far it seems that something greater than 15 sq m might need building regs approval, but probably not planning permission.  And it would have to be at least 1 m from any boundary.  And "made of non-combustible materials" according to Which...

 

[Nick C]

33 minutes ago, Graham T said:

And it would have to be at least 1 m from any boundary.  And "made of non-combustible materials" according to Which...

IIRC that's an 'or' rather than an 'and' - but again that might vary by council & size...

 

99% of normal garden sheds are both within 1m of the boundary and made of timber...

 

Could always build something adjacent to the garage and use both ;)

[longchap]

26 minutes ago, Nick C said:

Could always build something adjacent to the garage and use both ;)

 

Now a garage annex sounds interesting 😉

 

I've started, so I'll finish: perhaps this chap may be able to provide a tailor made solution:

 

                    Handmade buildings available from Graham T

 

 . . . . sorry, couldn't resist, back to my ukulele practice !

Edited February 23 by longchap

[Harlequin]

https://youtube.com/clip/Ugkxg3fs3YcK4rJSvIFmkt8aS2F7x5f60G6g?si=VowAIZiRVH0_mf5s

 

[Graham T]

1 hour ago, Nick C said:

Could always build something adjacent to the garage and use both ;)

 

That does sound like an interesting idea...

[57xx]

18 hours ago, JustinDean said:

Mount it on a concrete pad. 

 

Better still, mount it on wooden batons that are on the concrete pad. That way when the batons inevitably rot, you stand a chance to replace them, whereas when (not if) the actual floor joists in contact with wet concrete rot, that's the structure on it's way to being screwed.

[Tim Dubya]

1 minute ago, 57xx said:

 

Better still, mount it on wooden batons that are on the concrete pad. That way when the batons inevitably rot, you stand a chance to replace them, whereas when (not if) the actual floor joists in contact with wet concrete rot, that's the structure on it's way to being screwed.

 

The former Mrs Dubya's Warwick shed is on a base of compacted hardcore then over laid with paving slabs to a little under the exact size of the footprint.  The idea being that it has a solid base but water doesn't get to splash off the slabs back onto the buildings floor.  Last time I looked it was still bone dry under there, the only problem being a swollen door from not treating the wood in good time (not guilty, it was her workshop 😜).

 

[JustinDean]

27 minutes ago, 57xx said:

 

Better still, mount it on wooden batons that are on the concrete pad. That way when the batons inevitably rot, you stand a chance to replace them, whereas when (not if) the actual floor joists in contact with wet concrete rot, that's the structure on it's way to being screwed.

If the DPM is installed correctly floor joists won’t rot. Underneath should stay dry! My first build is over 10 years old and no moisture ingress whatsoever. 
 

Jay

[RobAllen]

On 21/01/2024 at 09:59, RobAllen said:

As I'm about to start my build journey, I've started reading this thread from the beginning. Incredibly inspiring.

Took me a little over a month. I’ve bookmarked so many posts as I have much to learn in my future and will need to refer back.
 

On 02/05/2023 at 14:35, Graham T said:

And a bit more of the typically glacial progress to be found here at Chuffnell R

 

There’s been more modelling achieved in the average week throughout this thread than I could possibly hope to get done in the average month!

[Graham T]

13 hours ago, RobAllen said:

Took me a little over a month. I’ve bookmarked so many posts as I have much to learn in my future and will need to refer back.
 

 

There’s been more modelling achieved in the average week throughout this thread than I could possibly hope to get done in the average month!

 

Glad you're enjoying it and finding some useful bits and pieces hidden amongst all the chaff Rob!  I'm looking forward to moving and being able to figure out exactly what space I will have available for the next layout.

 

[Schooner]

31 minutes ago, Graham T said:

I'm looking forward to...the next layout.

 

Us too!

[Graham T]

10 minutes ago, Schooner said:

 

Us too!

 

Cheers!  

 

[Winslow Boy]

Any dates we should be staying off the road so that the slow moving convoy transporting yourself and the remains of Chuffnell Regis can pass by. I'm expecting the full monty with police outriders, flashing lights the lot please.

Edited March 1 by Winslow Boy