Cavalex - all new Class 56 in OO

[APT Fan]

3 hours ago, RBE said:

That's all well and good but every controller doesn't have the ability to choose. My Prodigy for instance only has momentary on F2 so that's that. All of the sounds except the horns and brake should be latching really though. The compressor works automatically anyway but can be put on constant using the function, the manual flange squeal will do it's thing whilever it's engaged but it's not a constant screech so works well as a latched function and is also loco speed dependent as to what sounds it plays, it plays none over a certain speed as well. 

 

To be honest though we just assumed that people would set up their equipment as they see fit after playing with how the sounds worked. 

 

As others have said, the point is all down to how the sound file has been designed. So the designer will know what the intended use should be, that's why I was surprised not to see it documented. Nearly all the sound files seem to use F2 for the brake function, so that fits in with the momentary action mentioned and perhaps it might be a problem with some controllers if it were not F2. For the door slam Hornby TTS use a momentary action which makes perfect sense to me, Bachmann use a latch but state it is on/off so at least I know I have to press it twice to reset it, otherwise I'd be guessing. Not a big deal but I'm sure this information must be available from the designer.

Edited January 27 by APT Fan

[RBE]

14 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

 

As others have said, the point is all down to how the sound file has been designed. So the designer will know what the intended use should be, that's why I was surprised not to see it documented. Nearly all the sound files seem to use F2 for the brake function, so that fits in with the momentary action mentioned and perhaps it might be a problem with some controllers if it were not F2. For the door slam Hornby TTS use a momentary action which makes perfect sense to me, Bachmann use a latch but state it is on/off so at least I know I have to press it twice to reset it, otherwise I'd be guessing. Not a big deal but I'm sure this information must be available from the designer.

I do have the functions etc of what does what on the chip. I have also told you that the only things that need to be momentary are the horns and brake really, and the door slam if you want that. Not everyone can program that with their controllers though so F2 as the brake or two tone horn made sense as we knew that could only ever be momentary on F2 on the prodigy. Everything else is workable latched if necessary. If you want to make it momentary and can do then that's an operator choice. As for double functions such as F2, that was basically due to having more operational scope than the 30 functions allowed, we were also adamant that the most used functions should be in the top 10 functions to allow the most amount of people access to them. The 56 is all about the driver experience and that has meant that we have set it up as we wanted it rather than follow other manufacturers set ups.

 

Personally I don't like manual stuff such as notching and manual brake, but others do, we get that. In that regard we simply allowed for a manual mode giving notching and brake by having F25 on and a standard normal mode with automatic engine sounds and braking when F25 is off. 

Edited January 27 by RBE

[APT Fan]

21 minutes ago, RBE said:

This issue with sourcing alternative decoders is whether the functions are set up on the decoder to control the functions on the loco correctly. The Loksounds that we will do will be set up properly with a list of functions.  No reason that you can't do the same at home if you have equipment that can program functions on the decoder.

 

Agreed I've fitted a couple of aftermarket ESU Loksound decoders with excellent sound projects but have often found them less than optimal and it is the main reason why I always opt for factory fitted sound where possible. I was answering on the assumption that the poster was mainly just looking to fit a DCC decoder, which is a more straight forward problem if you are okay programming CVs and comfortable with speed profiles.

[ac1874]

@RBESorry if I have missed this but will speakers and sound chips be sold separately at a later date? 

[RBE]

Just now, ac1874 said:

@RBESorry if I have missed this but will speakers and sound chips be sold separately at a later date? 

We are currently assessing how best to provide these. We obviously want customers to be able to buy both the chip and speaker at the same time so we are looking into how to make this work commercially.

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

Just an extra question with the DCC function list (or lack off from what I can gather, not yet having the model myself). I appreciate that functions might be different depending on how a decoder is set up, however is this due (for example) two different decoders AUX 4 output being on different pins? Or different decoders having the function outputs assigned to different AUX outputs?

 

if it’s the latter, then is there a list of what AUX outputs perform which lighting functions? As even if a decoder doesn’t line up with them out of the factory, it would help with setting up the decoder correctly if possible.

 

and if it’s the former, maybe a diagram labelling which pin on the model controls which lighting function could be provided? So that users can cross check them against with the decoder of choice to line them up properly, or as close as possible?

 

just trying to get my head around what the issue is, as I’d like to use Zimo decoders (specifically the new MN340D/C depending on if logic outputs are needed) in my pair and just trying to see how much of the lighting I’ll be able to get working. Would rather use Zimo chips if I can as I’d like all the decoders on my layout (except sound) the same.  just to keep everything consistent with each other etc.

Edited January 28 by Bryn_Bach_Railway
spelling

[ac1874]

Just now, RBE said:

We are currently assessing how best to provide these. We obviously want customers to be able to buy both the chip and speaker at the same time so we are looking into how to make this work commercially.

Nice one and thanks for the super quick response at 9:35pm on a Saturday night....Presumably on what has been a crazy busy week. FOMO kicking in, better put another order in....

[atom3624]

I must admit to being a little surprised it's not all-wheel-drive, having seen that earlier video.

 

For me this has never detracted the performance I've seen both of this actual model, and also of similarly propelled locomotives from Heljan - my 52 and 58 have no problems at all.

 

'Surprise' was probably that it seems a default to be all-wheel-drive.

 

Having a 'floating' centre axle will mean it won't have the problems one video presenter was observing with a certain Class 37, so can't wait to receive mine early / mid-next week.

Fantastic job and still waiting for more 'video reviews' ...

Al.

[Rhysb]

Received mine and I am blown away! Absolutely amazing model. 
 

The sound is just awesome. Having had a go and heard pre production versions of the sound the finished product is excellent.

 

Thanks

 

Rhys

[APT Fan]

1 hour ago, ac1874 said:

Nice one and thanks for the super quick response at 9:35pm on a Saturday night....Presumably on what has been a crazy busy week. FOMO kicking in, better put another order in....

 

Agreed that's dedication for you, maybe that's one of the reasons why these are selling out in no time. It is an iconic loco that has finally been reproduced in model form with the care, detail and quality and price that many of us have been searching for for years. We are finally seeing manufacturers deliver what we actually want as customers and I wish Cavalex every success with this project and future projects. I think they will be backed by us customers as they are actually listening to us and taking notice.

 

 

 

Edited January 27 by APT Fan

[RBE]

55 minutes ago, atom3624 said:

I must admit to being a little surprised it's not all-wheel-drive, having seen that earlier video.

 

For me this has never detracted the performance I've seen both of this actual model, and also of similarly propelled locomotives from Heljan - my 52 and 58 have no problems at all.

 

'Surprise' was probably that it seems a default to be all-wheel-drive.

 

Having a 'floating' centre axle will mean it won't have the problems one video presenter was observing with a certain Class 37, so can't wait to receive mine early / mid-next week.

Fantastic job and still waiting for more 'video reviews' ...

Al.

The loco is better for not having all wheel drive as it allows all wheels to stay in contact withe the track for road holding, and pick-up. Having the centre axle powered give no benefit and in fact hinders performance sometimes because of it. 

 

I am planning a video explaining all this as some point so I'll post links to that when I have had 5 mins to put it together!

[APT Fan]

7 minutes ago, RBE said:

The loco is better for not having all wheel drive as it allows all wheels to stay in contact withe the track for road holding, and pick-up. Having the centre axle powered give no benefit and in fact hinders performance sometimes because of it. 

 

I am planning a video explaining all this as some point so I'll post links to that when I have had 5 mins to put it together!

I think the poster was agreeing with you (3rd para).😉

[atom3624]

All mutually understood, and YES! 😊

[RBE]

4 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

I think the poster was agreeing with you (3rd para).😉

Haha yes I agree, I was just clarifying for others reading.

[96701]

3 hours ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Cracking shot...what in the heck is a steam tender on a depot in 1984...was it for water supply? And what tender was it from?

A load bank? Basically resistance banks in water, aka large kettle.

[SRman]

I have only just been invoiced by Rails for mine, so it'll be a while before I receive it, but following some of the discussions over the last few topic pages, I have formed the following thoughts.

A1A-A1A as opposed to C-C drive for the models works fine for me. I have quite a few older Heljan diesels, such as class 47s, 57s, 52s, 58s, Falcon, Lion and Kestrel (there may be others I haven't listed), and all have the centre axle floating axles and 8-wheel drive, with great track-holding on uneven parts, and excellent haulage power - my usual comment is they'll pull the side out of the house given the chance!

For the dual function F2, one of the first things I'll be doing is popping it on the programming track connected to the LokProgrammer, which makes it easy to swap functions around, and how they operate. My intention will be to alter the F2 and F25 combination so that the horns are with F25 on, and the brake is with it off. Easy to do with the LokProgrammer, and probably almost as easy with JMRI Decoder  Pro. It can be done with CV changes as well, but that would mean reading the LokSound manual! 😅

 

I have a couple of the Hornby models, and they are by no means bad models, and still very presentable now, but the Cavalex one is quite a few steps above that, and I am really looking forward to receiving mine in due course.
 

[bradfordbuffer]

11 minutes ago, 96701 said:

A load bank? Basically resistance banks in water, aka large kettle.

Tar very much...interesting!  That's me up till 2am on a Google search 👀

[APT Fan]

24 minutes ago, SRman said:

I have only just been invoiced by Rails for mine, so it'll be a while before I receive it, but following some of the discussions over the last few topic pages, I have formed the following thoughts.

A1A-A1A as opposed to C-C drive for the models works fine for me. I have quite a few older Heljan diesels, such as class 47s, 57s, 52s, 58s, Falcon, Lion and Kestrel (there may be others I haven't listed), and all have the centre axle floating axles and 8-wheel drive, with great track-holding on uneven parts, and excellent haulage power - my usual comment is they'll pull the side out of the house given the chance!

For the dual function F2, one of the first things I'll be doing is popping it on the programming track connected to the LokProgrammer, which makes it easy to swap functions around, and how they operate. My intention will be to alter the F2 and F25 combination so that the horns are with F25 on, and the brake is with it off. Easy to do with the LokProgrammer, and probably almost as easy with JMRI Decoder  Pro. It can be done with CV changes as well, but that would mean reading the LokSound manual! 😅

 

I have a couple of the Hornby models, and they are by no means bad models, and still very presentable now, but the Cavalex one is quite a few steps above that, and I am really looking forward to receiving mine in due course.
 

 

So is the purpose to get easy access to the brake? A good idea, I think the F2 horn seems a bit redundant anyway with the playable being on F3/F4. 

 

 

 

[RBE]

23 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

 

So is the purpose to get easy access to the brake? A good idea, I think the F2 horn seems a bit redundant anyway with the playable being on F3/F4. 

 

 

 

it's not really redundant because it's hard to play a nice horn tone when you only have one momentary button available. The latching ones have to go on then off so a quick two tone sounds bad.

[SRman]

11 minutes ago, RBE said:

it's not really redundant because it's hard to play a nice horn tone when you only have one momentary button available. The latching ones have to go on then off so a quick two tone sounds bad.

 

Once I see what other functions are around, I might reallocate the 2-tone horns to another function anyway and put what is a less-used sound or function on the alternate F2. That would be for my own personal tastes and preferences. I agree that it is difficult to choose a set of F-key allocations to satisfy everyone, so what you have done is sensible. Those of us who are brave enough to do the reallocations can do so, and if it all goes belly-up, we do a decoder reset and start again. 😁

 

 

Edited January 28 by SRman
Typo

[SRman]

36 minutes ago, APT Fan said:

 

So is the purpose to get easy access to the brake? A good idea, I think the F2 horn seems a bit redundant anyway with the playable being on F3/F4. 

 

 

 

 

Absolutely. Those were my thoughts exactly.

[GBRf 66 The Flying Dustman]

26 minutes ago, RBE said:

it's not really redundant because it's hard to play a nice horn tone when you only have one momentary button available. The latching ones have to go on then off so a quick two tone sounds bad.

It’s a fantastic model for detail and the sound file if you don’t mind me asking why didn’t the cab lights fade off before the loco moved off and come back on when you stopped, as they are currently on all the time 

[tlm]

In answer to RBE, I've reduced the cab light intensity just based on my own pics of several examples at Gateshead MPD many years ago, setting CVs 326 and 350 to a value of 4.

If I can echo what a couple of others have said, it would be great if you would make the DCC sound decoders available. Of the others I have on order, two of them I could only get as DCC Ready, and I'd prefer to stick with a DCC Sound decoder with the same functions already mapped.

On that subject though, I'm not clear from the manual if there are speakers pre-fitted in the DCC Ready versions. Page 11 of the manual appears to refer to the speaker in the DCC Sound version only. Admittedly I've not removed the body from the first one yet to investigate.

[bradfordbuffer]

7 hours ago, GBRf 66 The Flying Dustman said:

It’s a fantastic model for detail and the sound file if you don’t mind me asking why didn’t the cab lights fade off before the loco moved off and come back on when you stopped, as they are currently on all the time 

If the cab lights go out when on the move how are we to make a brew ....read the 'sport' newspaper....and check the job card to what time we are due at Fiddlers Ferry powerstation?

[Roy Langridge]

Got back from Cornwall yesterday to find 56008 from Trains4U waiting for me and just had notification that 56120 arriving this morning from Rails. 
 

56008 looks as stunning as everyone says and the pair will get run-in this afternoon. 
 

Thanks to Cavalex for a superb model and to Trains4U/Rails for speedy deliveries. 

 

Roy