Cavalex - all new Class 56 in OO

[big jim]

22 minutes ago, 97403_Ixion said:

Should be - the analogue GBRf Railtour twin pack is ~£379*.

(* retail price, not e-bay pricing that is!)

i’d better get some rest days in to pay for mine! 

[Ultimate Model Railways]

1 hour ago, Awes0mesauce said:

Is the twin pack DCC sound factory fitted for £579?

 

thanks

Yes - both factory fitted with DCC sound

[bradfordbuffer]

4 hours ago, atom3624 said:

Showing my ignorance here, can somebody point me in the right direction of colours for the Modelu CavAlex 56 90's locomotive crew please?

 

I've a 56 070 winging it's way to me, and have just ordered the crew.

Looking quickly at Google, the classic-uniformed Bachmann ones look to be bearably acceptable as well - I've a few of these who can fill in in the meantime.

 

Another question - sorry.  Which is the #1 end please?  I seem to be seeing more people putting the fan end as #1, is this correct?

 

Thanks,

Al.

The messroom photo of some driver instructor's was posted a few pages back...

Late 80s and early 90s where the big crack down on useing HV vests so not very often seen up to then worn in cab and then the stile was velcro orange bib full front (sat mid point on your belly depending on belly size!😉)  with retro reflective stripe v on front two vertical stripes on back...some times with BR emblem it made a cracking protective bib to stop spilling soup on ya shirt!

Light blue cotton dust jacket was still popular but hard to get hold of it took many boil washes to get it nice and soft and light blue in colour 

 

At the risk of upsetting any former Manchester Victoria drivers there uniform in 90s was a happy Mondays tee-shirt and a tesco carrier bag....they where famous for it ...but done think they signed 56s

Edited January 30 by bradfordbuffer
Added a bit

[newbryford]

1 minute ago, bradfordbuffer said:

T

 

Are they XXL?

Edited January 30 by newbryford

[bradfordbuffer]

Just now, newbryford said:

 

Are they XXL?

Don't be rude......

 

 

 

Xxxxl☺

[97403_Ixion]

Just opened my GBRf Railtour Twin Pack... no chance to run them tonight but looking at the box, packaging, manual / info booklet and general appearance and presentation - WOW!  I am really impressed.

 

The models look great and certainly firmly supported in their holders within the foam lining.  Only having seen images of the box beforehand, I was wondering if it would be thin and weaker than other suppliers but no... very firmly put together.  To top it all, a superb image of both locos adorns the front cover.

 

 

A quick look through the manual and my only suggestion to Cavalex may be to make the lighting diagrams more clear - seeing which lights were on and off on the small 56 cab fronts was a bit tricky but not impossible.  Only a minor issue though as I'm sure there'll be so much enjoyment to be had seeing them lit when I get to run them.

 

 

Cavalex have definitely done a great job and judging from one or more YouTube videos, especially the MGR train on an incline, will justify every penny spent on these models and who knows, maybe a few more pennies!

 

Cheers,

Ixion.

 

 

[tlm]

I had all but given up on certain DCC Sound variants, so mega thanks firstly to Southwick for pointing me in the right direction, and secondly to Elliot @ UMR who has made me a very, very contented modeller. Anyone wavering about whether or not to go for a DCC Sound Cavalex 56 from this first batch - do it - it's another step up in DCC Sound and coltrollability to yet new heights, but don't hang around, they are vanishing fast.

 

I really like what the guys have done about "drivability" but the issue with having to swap F2 between brake and two tone can be a pain. I like the two tone but I also like an F2 brake functon, a la Zimo. It's not so bad on a continuous run, but on the depot layout engaging drive hold, then reducing the throttle to coast, then faffing to change the keypad to turn on F25, then going back to disengage drive hold and then operate the brake, is a pain, and I've had to hit the red button on occasions. If you don't throttle back before the operation, it will also come to a halt under braking but with the revs still high if you dont remember to hit F6 also. I might have a play with a minor remap on the Lokprogrammer on that one.

The only, and I do mean the only, element of the sound file that I found a little disappointing, and I'm definitely just nitpicking, was the flange squeal. I thought the SLW Class 24 was good in this respect, but for me the Accurascale Class 37 is the dog's you know whats for flange squeal currently. I hasten to add that this is just personal preference, and others will doubtless take completely the opposite view, but then isn't that one of the joys of this hobby of ours. On the other hand, personal preference also tells me that this is probably the very best RTR 4mm diesel model yet.

 

 

[Mark]

21 hours ago, Grimleygrid said:

 

Good morning Keith,

We will speak with Rails today and come back to you.

 

Hope that helps.

I have heard nothing from Rails since last Thursday when they said they were looking into it. No response to my subsequent messages. The P4 wheels are still shown in my pre orders. No doubt if they do eventually send them I will get stung for the postage! The loco is scheduled for delivery today.

 

Mark

[RBE]

6 hours ago, tlm said:

I had all but given up on certain DCC Sound variants, so mega thanks firstly to Southwick for pointing me in the right direction, and secondly to Elliot @ UMR who has made me a very, very contented modeller. Anyone wavering about whether or not to go for a DCC Sound Cavalex 56 from this first batch - do it - it's another step up in DCC Sound and coltrollability to yet new heights, but don't hang around, they are vanishing fast.

 

I really like what the guys have done about "drivability" but the issue with having to swap F2 between brake and two tone can be a pain. I like the two tone but I also like an F2 brake functon, a la Zimo. It's not so bad on a continuous run, but on the depot layout engaging drive hold, then reducing the throttle to coast, then faffing to change the keypad to turn on F25, then going back to disengage drive hold and then operate the brake, is a pain, and I've had to hit the red button on occasions. If you don't throttle back before the operation, it will also come to a halt under braking but with the revs still high if you dont remember to hit F6 also. I might have a play with a minor remap on the Lokprogrammer on that one.

The only, and I do mean the only, element of the sound file that I found a little disappointing, and I'm definitely just nitpicking, was the flange squeal. I thought the SLW Class 24 was good in this respect, but for me the Accurascale Class 37 is the dog's you know whats for flange squeal currently. I hasten to add that this is just personal preference, and others will doubtless take completely the opposite view, but then isn't that one of the joys of this hobby of ours. On the other hand, personal preference also tells me that this is probably the very best RTR 4mm diesel model yet.

 

 

Hi tlm, I'm glad that you like the loco we are very proud of what we have achieved and it's great to see that customers are also enjoying the model.

 

Onto your comments regarding DCC setup and driving. I think the issue here is that you are not driving the loco as we intended it to be driven. We took the decision early on to do our own thing rather than follow convention. The other issue is that not all people like to drive the same way and to cater for all is a hard task which is what led to the 'manual drive mode' F25 key to give effectively two set ups in one. 

 

In my opinion the best way to drive this loco is with F25 off and just use the throttle and drive lock but we were aware that some people like the manual brake so have added that in as an option rather than choose one or the other. 

 

If you are switching between F25 on and off while trying to drive then that is the issue right there, the intention is that you choose your poison and stick to it. Those that like manual brake etc keep F25 on at all times and those that drive throttle should keep F25 off. Of course F25 locks you out of manual flange squeal and two tone horns but we had to make a sacrifice somewhere and as we don't like driving with brake we made that the secondary mode so to speak (we had to choose one 🤣), we chose F2 for the two tone because on the Prodigy it is the only function that is none latching and the playable horns can be hard to play when having to turn them on then off and then the other on then off. But this of course clashes with the brake function. 

 

Driving with throttle either in yards or on the main couldn't be easier. Set the loco moving move the throttle to the desired speed and drive, if you want to coast hit F5 and throttle back the loco will spool down and rattle along the track, once at the braking point simply hit F5 again and the loco will re-aquire the set throttle speed, if that's zero it brakes, if it not it will slow down or speed up to whatever the throttle is set to. In this scenario the F5 key kind of works like a brake anyway. 

 

On manual mode you simply drive it the same way accept that you don't have to wind the throttle back but instead just brake with F2. If you are doing a drive lock coast then you don't have to disengage F5 but use the brake instead to stop, however if you did disengage F5 then it would still brake anyway so for me I prefer to not use the brake at all and leave F25 off. Just a note on F6, this is heavy train mode and should be off if shunting light in the yard. F6 as a mode has a high revving idle to simulate the loco being given amps to charge the compressor ready to take the train brakes of and move a large train. There is no need to be juggling F6 when doing yard moves. With F6 on the revs will never die to a proper idle as it's charging the compressor.

 

The correct way to use F6 is to use it when you are about to get a heavy train going. You set F6 and wait for the revs to build up. Once revving you then notch the throttle forward and get the train going, once moving you add power and you will find the inertia slow to respond but the engine working hard with both fans spinning. You can leave F6 on whilst getting the train going or simulating the train working hard but if you then intend to stop or coast the train you should disengage the F6 and then do either F5 and throttle back to coast (and then brake if you are in F25 mode) or throttle back to slow the train in normal mode.

 

The drivability of the loco was based on our real driver consultant's instruction of how he drove the real loco's so we wanted to replicate that. It takes a bit of a play to get used to how to drive it properly but once it all clicks it's crazy fun.

 

Regarding the flange squeal, I would like to know what you dislike about it? The only issue that we have is that the hall sensor for auto squeal wasn't set sensitive enough for our liking by ESU and it wasn't discovered until too late that the sensitivity is hard coded in a chip on the main board (this is set to change on all future locos, as new chip tech allows this to be changed in CV programming which the older chip didn't) so was locked in, this prompted the addition of a manual flange squeal function to complement the auto activation, I don't think the manual option is a bad idea anyway as it allows it to be applied as and when needed. I witnessed a class 60 and train flange squealing in the yard at Willesden a few months ago when it was on the straight, so all good to apply just when you fancy a bit of track noise. 

 

As for the sound of the flanges themselves, they are speed sensitive so change sound dependent on speed and these were actual recordings from 56105 on the yard at Shrewsbury. To us they are the most realistic sounding flange squeals that I have heard to date, your mileage may vary.

 

Anyway it's always good to get feedback and of course we welcome all comments, how else do we improve on what we deliver? 

[zr2498]

Not my era, BUT, having seen, and especially heard the beast I could not resist. So I've ordered a BR blue from Ultimate.

I guess this will better serve the HOP ABs (which were not quick to get TOPS coding) I already have, and now also about to add some early HCA's from ACC and some HAAs from KMS Railtech.

Well done Cavalex!

 

Dave

[SRman]

47 minutes ago, RBE said:

Hi tlm, I'm glad that you like the loco we are very proud of what we have achieved and it's great to see that customers are also enjoying the model.

 

Onto your comments regarding DCC setup and driving. I think the issue here is that you are not driving the loco as we intended it to be driven. We took the decision early on to do our own thing rather than follow convention. The other issue is that not all people like to drive the same way and to cater for all is a hard task which is what led to the 'manual drive mode' F25 key to give effectively two set ups in one. 

 

In my opinion the best way to drive this loco is with F25 off and just use the throttle and drive lock but we were aware that some people like the manual brake so have added that in as an option rather than choose one or the other. 

 

If you are switching between F25 on and off while trying to drive then that is the issue right there, the intention is that you choose your poison and stick to it. Those that like manual brake etc keep F25 on at all times and those that drive throttle should keep F25 off. Of course F25 locks you out of manual flange squeal and two tone horns but we had to make a sacrifice somewhere and as we don't like driving with brake we made that the secondary mode so to speak (we had to choose one 🤣), we chose F2 for the two tone because on the Prodigy it is the only function that is none latching and the playable horns can be hard to play when having to turn them on then off and then the other on then off. But this of course clashes with the brake function. 

 

Driving with throttle either in yards or on the main couldn't be easier. Set the loco moving move the throttle to the desired speed and drive, if you want to coast hit F5 and throttle back the loco will spool down and rattle along the track, once at the braking point simply hit F5 again and the loco will re-aquire the set throttle speed, if that's zero it brakes, if it not it will slow down or speed up to whatever the throttle is set to. In this scenario the F5 key kind of works like a brake anyway. 

 

On manual mode you simply drive it the same way accept that you don't have to wind the throttle back but instead just brake with F2. If you are doing a drive lock coast then you don't have to disengage F5 but use the brake instead to stop, however if you did disengage F5 then it would still brake anyway so for me I prefer to not use the brake at all and leave F25 off. Just a note on F6, this is heavy train mode and should be off if shunting light in the yard. F6 as a mode has a high revving idle to simulate the loco being given amps to charge the compressor ready to take the train brakes of and move a large train. There is no need to be juggling F6 when doing yard moves. With F6 on the revs will never die to a proper idle as it's charging the compressor.

... snipped ...

47 minutes ago, RBE said:

 

Anyway it's always good to get feedback and of course we welcome all comments, how else do we improve on what we deliver? 

 

I'm not saying that anything there is wrong, but my reservation on using F25 on all the time is that I have to make a point of turning it on for every new running session as the decoder "forgets" that it was on when the power is turned off. That's the reason I would swap the F25 on/off position for F2. I have the same issue with F20 (or whichever other function number is involved) on many of my locos which turns off the tail lights while hauling a train. I need to reverse that so the default is off, seeing as they are in front of trains for the vast majority of the time I use them. It means that if I leave F20 turned on when I kill the power, the locomotive "forgets" that, so when I turn the power back on for a new running session, I have to toggle F20 twice; once to turn it off, and once again to turn it back on.

Please don't take this as a criticism of what you have done, it isn't that. It is an explanation of why I want to do this differently. I agree that it is impossible to please everyone, whatever settings you choose to standardise on.

My system is an NCE Power Pro, by the way. Again, I would not expect you to be able to cater for every different DCC system.

[Mark]

2 hours ago, Mark said:

I have heard nothing from Rails since last Thursday when they said they were looking into it. No response to my subsequent messages. The P4 wheels are still shown in my pre orders. No doubt if they do eventually send them I will get stung for the postage! The loco is scheduled for delivery today.

 

Mark

Just heard from Rails this morning and they are going to send the wheels this week post free. They said they couldn’t send them out with the locos because they weren’t pre-ordered at the same time. Anyway hopefully sorted now.

Faith restored!!!

 

Mark

[RBE]

6 minutes ago, SRman said:

... snipped ...

 

I'm not saying that anything there is wrong, but my reservation on using F25 on all the time is that I have to make a point of turning it on for every new running session as the decoder "forgets" that it was on when the power is turned off. That's the reason I would swap the F25 on/off position for F2. I have the same issue with F20 (or whichever other function number is involved) on many of my locos which turns off the tail lights while hauling a train. I need to reverse that so the default is off, seeing as they are in front of trains for the vast majority of the time I use them. It means that if I leave F20 turned on when I kill the power, the locomotive "forgets" that, so when I turn the power back on for a new running session, I have to toggle F20 twice; once to turn it off, and once again to turn it back on.

Please don't take this as a criticism of what you have done, it isn't that. It is an explanation of why I want to do this differently. I agree that it is impossible to please everyone, whatever settings you choose to standardise on.

My system is an NCE Power Pro, by the way. Again, I would not expect you to be able to cater for every different DCC system.

Yes and that explanation just shows how hard it is to please everyone.

 

Your set up is exactly opposite to our philosophy. We chose marker lights and tail lights on as default as that the loco starting in the yard in a morning, and as we said, we consider the manual drive mode as the exception rather than the rule that you can turn on if you want that.

 

Again we have to choose one side of the other. 🤷

[tlm]

Many thanks to RBE for such a detailed response. I have to admit that most of the time I don't bother with the brake function, having reset CV4 to a value of 150 (or 200+ if it's loaded MGR's) which allows for a controlled stop over a measured distance, using drive hold as necessary to extend which also switches the brake sound in and out, although it's nice to have the brake function for more abrupt light engine braking manoeuvres on the depot layout. Like SRman I use NCE Power Pro 5 amp systems which have their own little niggles, although I've yet to find a better system - just personal preference again I hasten to add. Once again, I emphasise that none of what I said was in any way a complaint, so please RBE don't consider changing any of what you've already done as I think it's an excellent compromise; I love what you've done with this loco and on winding it up from rest as it proceeds from an almost imperceptible crawl with a heavy load at full chat, you can shut your eyes and it is every bit unmistakably a 56. Superb.

On a slightly different note, I mentioned last night my thanks to Elliot at Ultimate Model Railways. I would like to add another thumbs up for his excellent customer service. Having caned the credit card with two large payments late yesterday evening, I discovered this morning that the Bank had regarded these as potentially suspicious payments and blocked the card !  After a few anxious moments worrying that the orders might not have been processed at all, Elliot responded to an email, it seemed almost within seconds, not only to confirm that all was in order, but also to confirm that they were already packed and would likely be dispatched today. Highly recommended.

 

Finally, with the moderator's permission I would like to add a quick slightly off topic Class 56 plug. The next issue of Railway Modeller contains an in-depth article on Mick Worrell's (Durham Trains of Stanley) huge O gauge Eastfield layout which is going to be the centrepiece at Model Rail Scotland in Glasgow on 23rd to 25th February. For Class 56s et al an action, don't miss it.

[reddragon]

Well, I opened my new arrival fingers crossed hoping to have bogies correctly aligned & no issue.

 

Opened the box & oh sh*t! Its both!!

 

 

 

So I tentatively put her on the track and she ran perfectly! A few laps each way before her first haul of a heavy rake of wagons.

 

First issue was she will not stay coupled to my wagons properly, uncoupling quickly & relying on the wagon to hold on.

 

Next I tried sound, what a sound, yes it's great, one of the best considering the class 56 sound isn't that great compared to other locos. I don't like F6 heavy load though. Even though the acceleration / braking are great, the engine sticks in a monotone sound from start to stop, at all speeds from moving off, to speed, down to almost stopped. Maybe the 56 sound is that dull & monotone? Anyway, reverted to standard and the sound is much better, with acceleration sounds & slowing sounds. Maybe just me?

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Bit shiny too! Asking to be weathered.

[Pete the Elaner]

2 hours ago, RBE said:

 

Onto your comments regarding DCC setup and driving. I think the issue here is that you are not driving the loco as we intended it to be driven. We took the decision early on to do our own thing rather than follow convention. The other issue is that not all people like to drive the same way and to cater for all is a hard task which is what led to the 'manual drive mode' F25 key to give effectively two set ups in one. 

 

 

Not hard, impossible. The fussier ones among us will have learned how to re-map functions or, more likely, use software which makes this easier.

[bradfordbuffer]

6 minutes ago, reddragon said:

Well, I opened my new arrival fingers crossed hoping to have bogies correctly aligned & no issue.

 

Opened the box & oh sh*t! Its both!!

 

 

 

So I tentatively put her on the track and she ran perfectly! A few laps each way before her first haul of a heavy rake of wagons.

 

First issue was she will not stay coupled to my wagons properly, uncoupling quickly & relying on the wagon to hold on.

 

Next I tried sound, what a sound, yes it's great, one of the best considering the class 56 sound isn't that great compared to other locos. I don't like F6 heavy load though. Even though the acceleration / braking are great, the engine sticks in a monotone sound from start to stop, at all speeds from moving off, to speed, down to almost stopped. Maybe the 56 sound is that dull & monotone? Anyway, reverted to standard and the sound is much better, with acceleration sounds & slowing sounds. Maybe just me?

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Bit shiny too! Asking to be weathered.

Never has dull and monotone been in the same sentence as class 56!...

 

Once a loco gets to grips with a train unless a wheel slip occurs, input from driver or field divert kicks in the 'noise' should be constant...but never dull! ...that is until loco is throttled back that's when the tones change 

That been said drivers do have a tendency to play to the crowd! 😃

 

Dull?.......go and have 5mins on naughty step😄

[PjKing1]

Got my hands on 093 from Rails yesterday and although I’ve not had chance to get it out of the box I have to say it looks very impressive.  I did order the EM gauge drop in wheel sets but they weren’t in the packaging, I did phone Rails but they said they haven’t got them yet and they’ll follow shortly.

 

Paul

[AForce]

Out of interest, is anyone still awaiting dispatch confirmation for any pre-ordered models or new orders placed with Rails last week?

First-world problem of course, and I know they've had loads of orders to get through. Hopefully, it won't take much longer, although it does seem to be a bit random as to who gets what when.

 

On a different subject, thank you to the Cavalex team for all the helpful info and prompt feedback/responses provided in this thread.

[RBE]

1 hour ago, reddragon said:

Well, I opened my new arrival fingers crossed hoping to have bogies correctly aligned & no issue.

 

Opened the box & oh sh*t! Its both!!

 

 

 

So I tentatively put her on the track and she ran perfectly! A few laps each way before her first haul of a heavy rake of wagons.

 

First issue was she will not stay coupled to my wagons properly, uncoupling quickly & relying on the wagon to hold on.

 

Next I tried sound, what a sound, yes it's great, one of the best considering the class 56 sound isn't that great compared to other locos. I don't like F6 heavy load though. Even though the acceleration / braking are great, the engine sticks in a monotone sound from start to stop, at all speeds from moving off, to speed, down to almost stopped. Maybe the 56 sound is that dull & monotone? Anyway, reverted to standard and the sound is much better, with acceleration sounds & slowing sounds. Maybe just me?

 

Any ideas?

 

 

Bit shiny too! Asking to be weathered.

You aren't driving F6 correctly that's all. I didn't like it at first until I spoke to our actual driver. The description that I gave to tlm above describes how F6 works and there is also a section in the manual under driver experience that spells it out. Regarding the engine sticking, that's part of it and is to simulate the driver giving it amps to charge the compressor proper to releasing the brakes. Again that is explained on the post above and in the manual. I love doing heavy train moves now but it's not a press F6 and forget function by any means.

Edited January 30 by RBE

[97406]

2 minutes ago, PjKing1 said:

Got my hands on 093 from Rails yesterday and although I’ve not had chance to get it out of the box I have to say it looks very impressive.  I did order the EM gauge drop in wheel sets but they weren’t in the packaging, I did phone Rails but they said they haven’t got them yet and they’ll follow shortly.

 

Paul

 

That’s the one I’m waiting for. Got a sound one on order from Rails, but ordered it last August so it’s nearer the end of the queue than the front. I do like its spangly large logo livery!

[Grimleygrid]

2 minutes ago, PjKing1 said:

Got my hands on 093 from Rails yesterday and although I’ve not had chance to get it out of the box I have to say it looks very impressive.  I did order the EM gauge drop in wheel sets but they weren’t in the packaging, I did phone Rails but they said they haven’t got them yet and they’ll follow shortly.

 

Paul

 

Hi Paul,

 

Really pleased to hear that you like your 093, I think that could possibly be my favourite!

 

I notice in the second photo that you posted it appears that one of the handrails is missing, can you please check and confirm?

Apologies if it is but we can get you a replacement sent out in the post.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

[Gary H]

47 minutes ago, bradfordbuffer said:

Never has dull and monotone been in the same sentence as class 56!...

 

Once a loco gets to grips with a train unless a wheel slip occurs, input from driver or field divert kicks in the 'noise' should be constant...but never dull! ...that is until loco is throttled back that's when the tones change 

That been said drivers do have a tendency to play to the crowd! 😃

 

Dull?.......go and have 5mins on naughty step😄

Agreed.

Flip me, reading some posts on here, it could be made of 24 carrat gold and some would still moan! 🤣

If someone doesn't like the way it's mapped, re mapping yourself is the answer. 

To the guy above with the slewed bogies on the Colas example,  its a non issue,, just remove the screws from the plinth, it'll be fine!! 

 

[bradfordbuffer]

4 minutes ago, Grimleygrid said:

 

Hi Paul,

 

Really pleased to hear that you like your 093, I think that could possibly be my favourite!

 

I notice in the second photo that you posted it appears that one of the handrails is missing, can you please check and confirm?

Apologies if it is but we can get you a replacement sent out in the post.

 

Hope that helps.

 

 

Remote quality control! A industry first 😉

At Cavalex we fix fault before you know you got a fault!

[reddragon]

14 minutes ago, RBE said:

You aren't driving F6 correctly that's all. I didn't like it at first until I spoke to our actual driver. The description that I gave to tlm above describes how F6 works and there is also a section in the manual under driver experience that spells it out. Regarding the engine sticking, that's part of it and is to simulate the driver giving it amps to charge the compressor proper to releasing the brakes. Again that is explained on the post above and in the manual. I love doing heavy train moves now but it's not a press F6 and forget function by any means.

Seems like I need to learn how to drive a class 56 properly!!

 

Having moved gradually from DCC to DCC Sound, learning to drive each loco properly is quite a challenge, especially stopping in the right place.