Cavalex - all new Class 56 in OO

[The Fatadder]

2 minutes ago, Bryn_Bach_Railway said:

Finally got mine today as a birthday gift, however having quite a weird issue with DCC. 
 

Using a Dapol chip, I can get the fans working fine, and the decoder supply’s 5 volts. (Tail lights don’t work due to the way I’ve re-programmed the decoder used for testing), however, using a Zimo mn340C, the decoder only seems to be supplying 3ish volts and the fans do not work. But when the Zimo chip is in another loco, it can supply the full 5 volts just fine? Not an issue I’ve encountered before.

Assuming this is the 8fct Dapol?  How have you managed to get it to do anything on F3/4 upward?  Mine is still refusing to do any more than the core 4 functions.

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

4 minutes ago, The Fatadder said:

Assuming this is the 8fct Dapol?  How have you managed to get it to do anything on F3/4 upward?  Mine is still refusing to do any more than the core 4 functions.

It was the 6fct I believe. But I’ve mapped F5 to output 2 as my controller can’t hold f2 on. And I think I turned off f6 at the same time as I was going to set up tail lights at both ends but never got around to it. But f0f/r, and f1-4 all worked as expected. So all head/marker lights and fans

Edited February 17 by Bryn_Bach_Railway

[JN]

1 hour ago, Matt said:

Not a one off - every class 60 and class 56 I own from the red box company has the same issue (total 14 locos).  Others have had the same issue as detailed on threads somewhere on here. It is probably a design issue with those models and I can’t explain the physics suffice to say it does happen and can be corrected in way I described.

 

Sorry. I was terse when I replied. I have subsequently realised the person I quoted might have meant buckling couplings (similar to buffer lock) rather than couplings going the wrong way. Maybe I am just wrong.

 

I meant 'maybe its you' in the sense of perhaps you are going into a curve too fast or your curves are too tight or something like that. Although, the whole train should be moving at a constant speed, but I suppose a fast buckle might cause more risk of derailment because the extra speed would cause the car to lose balance quicker.

 

I get bodies and couplings will not hold the centre line perfectly on any radius curve. The shallower the curve the closer to the centre of the track the coupling is (I was originally referring to the fulcrum of the kinematic coupling). Furthermore this might only be fractionally reduced by a bogie coupling.

[Mike at C&M]

Before, and after.

 

[zr2498]

Some astonishing prices on eBay for sound fitted, even though some DCC Ready still available + decoder + speaker much cheaper!!

[Wayne 56089]

Rails have had a stock boost in their DC ones including the twin pack, maybe unpaid for pre orders? 

[Matt]

5 hours ago, JN said:

 

Sorry. I was terse when I replied. I have subsequently realised the person I quoted might have meant buckling couplings (similar to buffer lock) rather than couplings going the wrong way. Maybe I am just wrong.

 

I meant 'maybe its you' in the sense of perhaps you are going into a curve too fast or your curves are too tight or something like that. Although, the whole train should be moving at a constant speed, but I suppose a fast buckle might cause more risk of derailment because the extra speed would cause the car to lose balance quicker.

 

I get bodies and couplings will not hold the centre line perfectly on any radius curve. The shallower the curve the closer to the centre of the track the coupling is (I was originally referring to the fulcrum of the kinematic coupling). Furthermore this might only be fractionally reduced by a bogie coupling.

No worries- I’m not sure what the issue is but my mods have helped so I’m happy. I prob should have mentioned I’m using Kadees in the NEMs which might be a contributing factor - some have said the problems are less if using a more solid coupling bar.

M

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

There’s definitely some weird qwerks as to how DCC is done with this model (not really cavalex’s fault, from what I understand ESU have done the circuit board design).

 

getting different results from different decoders with the same dip-switch settings.

 

Zimo mn340C;

F0f/r - head light (directional)

F1 - markers front

F2 - markers rear

F3-9 - not working

F10 - rear cab light (after cv change)

 

Dapol 6 function

F0f/r - head light (directional)

F1 - markers front

F2 - markers rear

F3 - fan

F4 - fan

F5/6 - not working

 

Dapol 8 function

F0f/r - head light (directional)

F1 - markers front

F2 - markers rear

F3-8 - not working

 

would like to note that all decoders can operate all functions in a Dapol 68 too, so the decoder function outputs are working. I wonder if some of the logic level outputs are very voltage sensitive, as when a wire bridges the 5V pin and a specified output pin the appropriate function springs into life. However when going thought the decoder the functions do not work. 

interestingly when checking if the decoders outputs are working with a volt meter again the appropriate function pin and the 5v pin (when using a Zimo chip). When the functions are off, a reading of 4.81V is recorded. When the function is on, this drops to 2.13V for F3-9. However F10, which is the only logic level output that seems to work, drops to 1.65V. I don’t think that is really adjustable via CV’s to increase the drop, Only to reduce it I believe.

Edited February 17 by Bryn_Bach_Railway
Re-phrased last paragraph

[Bryn_Bach_Railway]

Just checked the voltage across Dapol chips and a similar realist. The logic level functions that work drop to below 2V (actually down to near enough 0V, however the non-working functions stay above 2V. Would be interesting to see if someone with a non-sound ESU chip can check and see if all the function outputs drop to below 2V when activated.

[Dicky L]

[zr2498]

1 hour ago, Wayne 56089 said:

Rails have had a stock boost in their DC ones including the twin pack, maybe unpaid for pre orders? 

Yes, still plenty of DCC Ready at Rails and Ultimate. I will wait to see what the Cavalex sound package comes up with before upgrading 56120 that I've just ordered.

[Erixtar1992]

13 hours ago, JN said:

 

How do the couplings bend in the wrong direction? The couplings would go the way the coupling is supposed to: following a curve. If a curve goes to the left, the coupling goes left, pivoting at the fulcrum and returning to the alignment with the centre whether that fulcrum is on the bogie or not. Possibly a coupling does not have enough slack, but a coupling cannot have too much slack or bend away from the curve unless something odd is happening. I do not know how or why a coupling would bend away from, rather than with, a curve. Look at the two closest buffers between two cars when the cars go around the left-hand curve, the two closest buffers on each car should be on the left-hand side of the car.

Try it…

 

when pushed towards eachother it can force them in the wrong direction, which can lead to buffer lock.

 

its a simple problem solved by a fixed bar coupling rather than something loose like tension locks ect

[tetsudofan]

Oh dear, just got a red one from Rails which will be joining my Railfreight Red Stripe and Coal Sector locos.

 

Must stop this late night buying......

[JN]

3 hours ago, Erixtar1992 said:

Try it…

 

when pushed towards eachother it can force them in the wrong direction, which can lead to buffer lock.

 

its a simple problem solved by a fixed bar coupling rather than something loose like tension locks ect

 

I had previously replied about buckling couplings and had compared buckling couplings to buffer lock.

[Gilbert]

Has anyone weathered a 56019 ( I'm particularly interested in how the red buffers look!)

Chris H

[97406]

9 minutes ago, Gilbert said:

Has anyone weathered a 56019 ( I'm particularly interested in how the red buffers look!)

Chris H

 

They didn’t stay red for long on the real thing, that’s for sure. I did manage to find one picture of it with them still in red from Stephen Dance’s Flickr page.

 

 

[33212]

Hello, I have 56023 and what a stunning model it is, looks and sounds great. One issue I have is hauling capability. I have a rake of 29 Hornby HAA’s, the high detailed versions, and prior to the arrival of the 56, a single Heljan class 33 was utilised to haul the combo out of the storage sidings, up a curving ramp to the helix and up the helix and away. The 33 is a non sound loco. I also use Bachmann 47’s on it now and again but being a Kent modeller, 33’s were the staple traction, until replaced by 56’s…. Anyway, the Heljan 33 will haul all 29 up the Helix and if allowed will just get faster and faster, the Cavalex 56 does not even get the train up the approach ramp. I have reduced the formation by single wagons over multiple tests, it sits there screaming and wheels spinning with 19 wagons at which point I gave up. Has anyone else tried the Cavalex 56 with a challenging trains on a hilly layout?  I’d have expected it to handle it no problem. I have not tried it without sound yet, would that affect power delivery?

 

thanks

 

Matt

[RBE]

Just now, 33212 said:

Hello, I have 56023 and what a stunning model it is, looks and sounds great. One issue I have is hauling capability. I have a rake of 29 Hornby HAA’s, the high detailed versions, and prior to the arrival of the 56, a single Heljan class 33 was utilised to haul the combo out of the storage sidings, up a curving ramp to the helix and up the helix and away. The 33 is a non sound loco. I also use Bachmann 47’s on it now and again but being a Kent modeller, 33’s were the staple traction, until replaced by 56’s…. Anyway, the Heljan 33 will haul all 29 up the Helix and if allowed will just get faster and faster, the Cavalex 56 does not even get the train up the approach ramp. I have reduced the formation by single wagons over multiple tests, it sits there screaming and wheels spinning with 19 wagons at which point I gave up. Has anyone else tried the Cavalex 56 with a challenging trains on a hilly layout?  I’d have expected it to handle it no problem. I have not tried it without sound yet, would that affect power delivery?

 

thanks

 

Matt

I would check to make sure that you don't have the worm clip issue. It causes the worm to not mesh with the gears so effectively powering only one bogie under load. The loco can easily pull that load without problems when working correctly. In fact a test was done recently where a Hornby 56 pulled against ours one going one way and one the other and our 56 pulled the Hornby one away in the opposite direction.

[33212]

13 minutes ago, RBE said:

I would check to make sure that you don't have the worm clip issue. It causes the worm to not mesh with the gears so effectively powering only one bogie under load. The loco can easily pull that load without problems when working correctly. In fact a test was done recently where a Hornby 56 pulled against ours one going one way and one the other and our 56 pulled the Hornby one away in the opposite direction.

Ok thank you, I’ll research what that is and assume its an easy fix at home?

 

[Ian Hargrave]

10 minutes ago, RBE said:

I would check to make sure that you don't have the worm clip issue. It causes the worm to not mesh with the gears so effectively powering only one bogie under load. The loco can easily pull that load without problems when working correctly. In fact a test was done recently where a Hornby 56 pulled against ours one going one way and one the other and our 56 pulled the Hornby one away in the opposite direction.

I have the same underpowered issue with lack of traction ,gear grinding,slipping & stalling. It’s dc only 56093. Do I need to return it to fix as it would seem that you have identified the issue above ? Or is there an easy fix ? Bought from Ultimate late last week .

[Southernman46]

20 minutes ago, 33212 said:

but being a Kent modeller, 33’s were the staple traction, until replaced by 56’s…. 

 

thanks

 

Matt

The main Kent MGR flow (other than Northfleet which was staple 47's) was to Ridham Dock for the Kemsley Paper Mill went down loaded in the wee small hours and back late at night - wasn't ever really photographable - I have a few taken at Gillingham in the dark - where it was booked a crew change & I'd pre-arrangedwith a mate who was a Driver to stay put for a few minutes & followed by a cab ride to Sheppey & return LE to Gillingham - usually early on a Saturday morning). This LE move was normally conducted at high speed following a call to Rainham Signalman to get the LX gates down early - 73's are definitely lively on the suspension.

 

Anyway, the point of my post is this service was more often a pair of 73's rather than 33's so you could quite legitimately chuck a pair of cheap (ATM) Dapol 73's on it too.

[RBE]

44 minutes ago, 33212 said:

Ok thank you, I’ll research what that is and assume its an easy fix at home?

 

Yes it's a very easy fix. Just remove the body and look in the four access windows on the chassis where the gear towers are. There is likely a cover clip not seated correctly. 

 

This can be clipped into place with a flathead screwdriver.

 

 

Clip on

 

Clip off

Edited February 18 by RBE

[33212]

41 minutes ago, Southernman46 said:

The main Kent MGR flow (other than Northfleet which was staple 47's) was to Ridham Dock for the Kemsley Paper Mill went down loaded in the wee small hours and back late at night - wasn't ever really photographable - I have a few taken at Gillingham in the dark - where it was booked a crew change & I'd pre-arrangedwith a mate who was a Driver to stay put for a few minutes & followed by a cab ride to Sheppey & return LE to Gillingham - usually early on a Saturday morning). This LE move was normally conducted at high speed following a call to Rainham Signalman to get the LX gates down early - 73's are definitely lively on the suspension.

 

Anyway, the point of my post is this service was more often a pair of 73's rather than 33's so you could quite legitimately chuck a pair of cheap (ATM) Dapol 73's on it too.

 

Hi - the ones i used to see were the Hoo Junction - Betteshanger (originated Toton) and were pairs of 33’s until about 1988/89 then class 56’s after that, used to recess at Sittingbourne until about 0850, later that day returned via Ashford..I used to leg from the station at Sittingbourne on the way to school to watch them depart..

[33212]

14 minutes ago, RBE said:

Yes it's a very easy fix. Just remove the body and look in the four access windows on the chassis where the gear towers are. There is likely a cover clip not seated correctly. 

 

This can be clipped into place with a flathead screwdriver.

 

 

Clip on

 

Than

Clip off

Thank you - will have a look later in the week when back home!

[Southernman46]

18 minutes ago, 33212 said:

 

Hi - the ones i used to see were the Hoo Junction - Betteshanger (originated Toton) and were pairs of 33’s until about 1988/89 then class 56’s after that, used to recess at Sittingbourne until about 0850, later that day returned via Ashford..I used to leg from the station at Sittingbourne on the way to school to watch them depart..

 

👍 Forgot about that flow - trains taking powdery Kent coal to the Midlands - was in the world of work by then - have phot'd it a few times whilst project engineering new 33kV railway substation switchgear in Kent at the time.