RMweb Premium RichardT Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 Les1952 & Bomag’s points about one-way systems are interesting. It’s easy to instantly assume that a one-way system means “a single route that you have to follow from entrance to exit”, which obviously raises all those difficulties of bunching at the first few stands, and no-one at the last stands for hours. But if a show can devise a series of smaller linked one way loops around each “island” of layouts/stands then that might make seeing the show & revisiting stands a lot more comfortable, Covid or no Covid. No pushing past people & rucksacks coming in the opposite direction when you want to go back to the other end of a layout - just follow the loop. RT 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Not a great deal said about ventilation in this discussion, and I don’t think it is mentioned in the survey, yet to me it seems likely to be a hugely important factor. Most MR exhibition halls, even some school gyms and “professional exhibition venues”, have not been particularly well-ventilated by the standards needed to really help with Covid, some being very “fuggy” indeed. Some of the measures under discussion, hand-sanitising, wearing a face-shield, checking temperatures, probably do barely anything to reduce the probability of spread (temperature checking always seems a near-complete was of time to me, something that gives only a false sense of security), whereas having a good stiff breeze blowing through the venue would. 2 4 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Les1952 said: . i think you've posted in the wrong thread, this is about exhibitions reopening, you appear to have posted an image of a proposed model of Immingham Docks in GC times 2 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CUCKOO LINE Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 19 hours ago, woodenhead said: I understand the thoughts on one way systems, but I learnt early on in the lockdowns that this doesn't function well in a supermarket where items are neatly grouped let alone the more random distribution of a railway exhibition. Imagine the start of the exhibition and everyone piles on to layout number 1, then number 2 etc - it would mean layout number 10 is empty until all those initial people in have viewed the items down the line leading to a crush. Being able to wander randomly around a larger spaced exhibition will give a more even distribution, you can bet those most concerned about their health but prepared to visit will head for the empty spaces. Add to that my Pathological Demand Avoidance which means I will argue with anyone who tells me what to do and when to do it, and a one way system is a recipe for disaster. That is why people introduce timed entries to avoid such bottle necks. Interesting our local M&S food only seems to limit entry at opening to avoid bunching near the entrance as the early morning queue enters. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators AY Mod Posted July 2, 2021 Author Moderators Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Nearholmer said: Not a great deal said about ventilation in this discussion, and I don’t think it is mentioned in the survey, yet to me it seems likely to be a hugely important factor. I hadn't put it into the survey as it's something for organisers to ensure (and I fully agree with it) rather than it being something the visitor has to (potentially) agree to comply with. We've just been in a Zoom meeting discussing some of our events and how the ventilation can be managed plus increased opportunities for visitors to nip outside for breaks etc. Maybe I should have had a 'Howling gale from the east blowing through' as an option in the requirements so that people could choose not to be accepting of. 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 Ventilation is an interesting one. I have exhibited in halls that were so hot, stuffy and overpowering that I was nearly passing out and I have exhibited in halls (in winter) with the aforementioned howling gale, which meant working the layout wearing a hat, coat and gloves. Some venues do, however, manage to get such things just right! 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 Great that Andys putting this together , but I think there is just so much we don't know at the moment . Recently we seem to perceive that the virus is mostly airborne and maybe there is less of a threat from surfaces . Thats just my perception and might be wrong . This delta variant , or delta plus seems to be very highly transmissable in the air. I do then wonder at the role of airconditioning systems in circulating virus . I know they have filters but do we know its stops existing variants , delta variant etc . I do think we will be forced to look at office/ conference ventilation systems again So as Torper said earlier on until we know the transmission rates , effects of air con etc its really very difficult to say whether you'd be happy to attend . 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 I was initially a reluctant mask wearer, but as a supermarket employee had to get used to it. I only work part time so have the mask on for just over three hours a day. My job involves some heavy lifting, but I don't find the mask to be a problem. Moving on to the possible 'one-way' arrangements in exhibitions. Our supermarket changed the layout several times trying to get things right, and we did have some congestion inside the entrance, and some arguments and non-compliance. I would suggest as most folk will want to return to an aisle/layout, they should be able to do so. Each venue will have specific requirements, perhaps the one-way should be restricted to the entrance/exit areas? The most important thing about congestion has already been mentioned, there should be plenty of circulating room inside the entrance, or the ability for folk to move away from the entrance, as that was a problem in our store. Ventilation is very important, and also for comfort when wearing a mask. Having not made any train or bus journeys since last August I have recently made a number of trips and found the mask to be less comfortable sitting in a very warm bus than actually working in a ventilated supermarket. cheers 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJS1977 Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 It's clear that there's a wide variety of views about what arrangements visitors would be prepared to accept. Whatever mitigations the exhibition organisers intend to use, I think it's important for them to publicise what they will be doing in advance, to avoid the possibility of visitors travelling a distance and then not being comfortable with the arrangements in place. 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 The responses so far have show how diverse peoples concerns are. The current best assessment of the data is that unless you have a medical condition which may lower the initial resistance to infection then it doesn't matter if you come into contact with the odd unvaccinated person. If you do have an underlying medical condition which reduces the effectiveness of the vaccine then its much more effective for you to wear a high performance medical face mask than require others to wear the current AfNOR mask. In terms of air-con systems many newer one use heat exchangers and don't recycle air. Old ones do recycle the air but have filters, these are primarily to preserve the systems used to dehumidify the air, but the combination should kill almost every bug. The a/c industry had spent the last 40+ years stopping nasties such as legionaries. The evidence seem's to be that you need to be exposed to somebodies breath for some time (either directly or though a sodden mask) within about a metre in an indoor situation. The use of masks has helped in confined situations but gives a clear advantage to more transmissible variants. So, as long as the filters are cleaned, the rate a/c units recycle air should reduced transmission to close to that in the open air. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Parker Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 3 minutes ago, Bomag said: The evidence seem's to be that you need to be exposed to somebodies breath for some time (either directly or though a sodden mask) within about a metre in an indoor situation. Be wary of trying to quote the science at the moment - Australia says 5-10 seconds. One aspect that might affect more people is that you can't have banks of chairs for visitors to sit in. As they need to be sanitised after each occupant, either there is an army of people with clothes, or realistically, no chairs. Even if you are happy with masks etc. we know from past feedback here, that seats matter. Warley without a sit-down? 1 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Bomag said: The current best assessment of the data is that unless you have a medical condition which may lower the initial resistance to infection then it doesn't matter if you come into contact with the odd unvaccinated person. If they are unvaccinated, and not infected, it clearly wouldn't be a concern. But, if they are infectious, then it might be, depending upon how infectious, and the duration and circumstances of the "contact". Can you point us to the source of what you mention? I ask, because I've never yet found anything that makes crystal clear what all of the oft-mentioned "pre-existing conditions" that cause concern are. IMO, too many press reports blithely talk about "of no concern except for those with pre-existing medical conditions", which glosses over the fact that by the time people reach their later years, a very high percentage have some chronic affliction, be it minor or major (over 60% of the population is overweight or obese; c7% of the population has diabetes; 11% of the population is living with heart or circulatory disease etc.). I'm half-deaf in one ear, but I dont think that increases my chances of catching covid, unless I miss a warning that someone is about to cough all over me. Edited July 2, 2021 by Nearholmer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 19 minutes ago, Phil Parker said: Be wary of trying to quote the science at the moment - Australia says 5-10 seconds. I think Phil precisely captures the point . Australia is saying that with this new variant that it could be proximity 5-10 seconds or passing through an air plume expelled by someone else . Until we know this for sure we can't really say its safe to congregate in large groups . So I'm afraid we need a lot more definitive science 1 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoingUnderground Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 I've been going to supermarkets to shop when we couldn't get supermarket delivery slots, and it's hard enough to remember to keep your distance from other shoppers. There is always the possibility that someone will come up close behind you and you won't realise that they're there. We went to a open air flower show last summer, and despite everything being well spaced out by the organisers, people kept coming up close behind you or jumping in to the social distance gap that you left between you and the person in front of you at the stalls to see the plants for sale. I can't see exhibitions being any different, irespective of restrictions on numbers, one way systems or whatever, possibly/probably worse if the "scrum" round the Bachmann stand is anything to go by. If you like, it is a question of trust, and as the Covidiots and unvaccinated look just like you and me, I treat everyone with equal distrust when I'm outside my home. Vaccination isn't a "magic bullet" as no vaccine is ever 100% effective, but it is the only real weapon we have. The treatment that patients get in hospital is designed to minimise the effects, and damp down the immune system as some of the bad outcomes seem to be due to our immune systems overreacting to the virus The virus is evolving on a world wide scale, following Darwin's "survival of the fittest", (evolution isn't "pants"), so the possibility of a new variant arising against which the vaccines are significantly less effective, or imore dangerous, or more contagious is rather more than a remote possibility. If I was an exhibition organiser I'd be very worried about that happening and losing all the upfront money needed to get a show up and running and draining my club or society of all our funds, or worse. I miss the exhibitions, but I won't be going to Warley this year, and won't be going to any other exhibition in the next 12 months at least, unless and until it become a lot clearer to me that this illness is on the wane and the risks to me personally, and through me to my family, are negligible. Equally I won't be eating out or going to rock gigs or the theatre. for the same reasons. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 43 minutes ago, Nearholmer said: If they are unvaccinated, and not infected, it clearly wouldn't be a concern. But, if they are infectious, then it might be, depending upon how infectious, and the duration and circumstances of the "contact". Can you point us to the source of what you mention? I ask, because I've never yet found anything that makes crystal clear what all of the oft-mentioned "pre-existing conditions" that cause concern are. IMO, too many press reports blithely talk about "of no concern except for those with pre-existing medical conditions", which glosses over the fact that by the time people reach their later years, a very high percentage have some chronic affliction, be it minor or major (over 60% of the population is overweight or obese; c7% of the population has diabetes; 11% of the population is living with heart or circulatory disease etc.). I'm half-deaf in one ear, but I dont think that increases my chances of catching covid, unless I miss a warning that someone is about to cough all over me. The data is from commercial oc-health provider (so no sharing). When 'pre-existing condition' is mentioned, this is nearly always relates to conditions which reduce a persons ability to fight an infection; so the conditions you mention. When issues about conditions which may impact the ability of the vaccine to stop infection (or be only able to limit the impact of the infection) you are looking at a smaller subset of conditions. The main area is where there is a natural reduction in the effectiveness of the immune system (mainly genetics) or where this is due to outside influence e.g. immune suppressants for organ transplants or treating other conditions (including stokes apparently) and diseases such as AIDS. In addition you have conditions which may affect the working of the lungs, nose and throat, particularly the effectiveness of the linings. The general oc-health guidance on managing worker safety has started to movd away from removing the 'unhealthy' (me included) from high risk locations to identifying populations which may not have the same level of protection (and keeping social distancing in some office space for them). While you would not want to sit in front of somebody with obvious symptoms of COVID / cold / flu, there is no evidence that a vaccinated person can catch COVID from an asymptomatic non vaccinated person any differently than from a vaccinated person who is successfully fending of an infection. It is likely to take a couple of months of interaction to get enough data to be sufficiently informed. 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bomag Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 1 hour ago, Legend said: I think Phil precisely captures the point . Australia is saying that with this new variant that it could be proximity 5-10 seconds or passing through an air plume expelled by someone else . Until we know this for sure we can't really say its safe to congregate in large groups . So I'm afraid we need a lot more definitive science The problem is that there is nothing definitive, there is only a probability curve. I am not an expert on what is happening in Aus but from the oc-health updates I have access to is that while the 'island fortress' has worked up to now the low number of cases needed to justify a full lock down means that they have limit knowledge / experience coupled with almost no resistance to any new strain, due to no infections or limited vaccines rollout, makes it much harder to comprehend the impact with what they letting through now. This rather reflects some of the comments about new variants, if you are vaccinated the best thing to do for many virus (and COVID is likely to in this group) is not to barricade the hatches but to have a steady, limited exposure to new strains to build up a wider range of protection. Virus mutate incrementally (but through many branches), if you encounter a first generation mutation any vaccine will likely be mostly effective. If you encounter a firth generation mutation, without encountering any of gen 1 to 4 then any vaccine, or natural immunity, will be much less effective at fighting it. It has always been the case that if somebody infected sneezes near you there is much greater chance of any virus (or if you are Scottish, shouting in a London pub). The wider issue is that that if an asymptomatic carrier is breathing in and out normally, how long does it take to eject enough virus to be effective and infective somebody. Alpha/kent was something like 10 min, Delta/india is more like 5-10 min. In terms of a/c systems some of them may need to have their throughflow rates increased to replace all air within 5 mins; one of our older office a/c systems is on full blast to get replacement times down to meet current guidance. The cost to the landlord is significant, he is hoping that guidance from 19th July means he can turn it down. For exhibitions it may help if somebody can provide advice on how to get a flow of air through a sports hall etc, it's not the case of opening all doors but working with any wind to go from a high pressure to a low pressure, sunny to shielded. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 31 minutes ago, Bomag said: For exhibitions it may help if somebody can provide advice on how to get a flow of air through a sports hall etc, it's not the case of opening all doors but working with any wind to go from a high pressure to a low pressure, sunny to shielded. Just take a quick course in tenth century Islamic-world architecture - those guys really new how to do passive ventilation using naturally driven pressure differences, and how to add moisture to air by having it drawn across open pools of water. In Britain, in winter, its probably better to use "stack effect" aided by negative pressure created at the stack-top by the wind, than to rely solely on solar heat to create air-bouyancy. Add factory chimneys to sports halls! 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Solo Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 I have to say I'm a little perplexed by all of this. Having filled out the survey and clicked on to the results page it was something of a shock to see the numbers of people who thought one or more of the 'restrictions' that have been forced upon us over the last year ought to be applied to exhibitions going forward. Given that we are only a couple of weeks away from the government most likely - and rightly - lifting the vast majority of social distancing measures surely that is a signal that as we near the endgame of the pandemic it will come down to personal risk-assessment as to what constitutes 'safe'. Sure, some will choose to wear masks, perhaps limit social contact and prefer to 'keep their distance' and that is up to them. But are we really saying that against a backdrop of the rest of society getting back to near-normal exhibition organisers will choose nonetheless to arbitrarily impose some of those same measures that have been so damaging to society of late? That would be a deeply retrograde step and very bad for the hobby. Perhaps for a two-day show you could have a 'restrictions' day and a 'normal' day to cater to both tastes....but more seriously a sense of perspective is better. Covid is just one of those things that is going to be with us for good. We have to live (normally!) alongside it - what's the point in denying yourself the things you enjoy out of Covid-fear? Far more chance that whilst you do that something else with a far higher risk factor will 'get you'. The vaccines are incredibly effective. No, not 100%, nothing is. But the media have a way of whipping us into a frenzy. Throughout the pandemic I've commuted continually by long-distance rail and also abroad with work. I have been in some pretty crowded spaces, often without masks and 'distancing'. I'm tested constantly and have never actually tested positive. Some of my colleagues (of all ages) have - none were ill. 'Long' Covid is not unique to Covid. Most people who say they have the flu actually have a bad cold; real flu is extremely debilitating, makes you feel truly awful for a couple of weeks and in my case (a very healthy 40-something) two to three months to get back to something like normal. Yet we've never imposed lockdowns, masks, and the pantomime of social distancing for it. For the vast majority Covid is a mild or symptom-less infection. Especially when vaccinated! So we have to start balancing risk/benefit here. A good exhibition is a place where you can wander at will whilst rubbing shoulders with some like minds and having a good many insightful and inspiring conversations. You can browse the trade stands and bargain bins, maybe go back two or three times to that layout that really caught your eye and possibly indulge in a pie and a cup of tea. In short, a good exhibition is a lovely way to while away a few hours. But none of that is really possible in a world of masks, screens, one-way systems, time-slots and whatever else. Time to just take a deep breath and jump back in, life is truly too short for anything else. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
woodenhead Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 @Solo, not saying I don't agree with a lot of what you are saying and there will come a time when there will be no restrictions, however at the moment the Government have still not said there will be no restrictions so a poll helps gauge what people will accept in a model railway exhibition scenario, that said I've just popped downstairs for the popcorn and will wait to see what comes next...... 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Andy Hayter Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 48 minutes ago, Solo said: I have to say I'm a little perplexed by all of this. Having filled out the survey and clicked on to the results page it was something of a shock to see the numbers of people who thought one or more of the 'restrictions' that have been forced upon us over the last year ought to be applied to exhibitions going forward. Given that we are only a couple of weeks away from the government most likely - and rightly - lifting the vast majority of social distancing measures surely that is a signal that as we near the endgame of the pandemic it will come down to personal risk-assessment as to what constitutes 'safe'. Sure, some will choose to wear masks, perhaps limit social contact and prefer to 'keep their distance' and that is up to them. But are we really saying that against a backdrop of the rest of society getting back to near-normal exhibition organisers will choose nonetheless to arbitrarily impose some of those same measures that have been so damaging to society of late? That would be a deeply retrograde step and very bad for the hobby. Perhaps for a two-day show you could have a 'restrictions' day and a 'normal' day to cater to both tastes....but more seriously a sense of perspective is better. Covid is just one of those things that is going to be with us for good. We have to live (normally!) alongside it - what's the point in denying yourself the things you enjoy out of Covid-fear? Far more chance that whilst you do that something else with a far higher risk factor will 'get you'. The vaccines are incredibly effective. No, not 100%, nothing is. But the media have a way of whipping us into a frenzy. Throughout the pandemic I've commuted continually by long-distance rail and also abroad with work. I have been in some pretty crowded spaces, often without masks and 'distancing'. I'm tested constantly and have never actually tested positive. Some of my colleagues (of all ages) have - none were ill. 'Long' Covid is not unique to Covid. Most people who say they have the flu actually have a bad cold; real flu is extremely debilitating, makes you feel truly awful for a couple of weeks and in my case (a very healthy 40-something) two to three months to get back to something like normal. Yet we've never imposed lockdowns, masks, and the pantomime of social distancing for it. For the vast majority Covid is a mild or symptom-less infection. Especially when vaccinated! So we have to start balancing risk/benefit here. A good exhibition is a place where you can wander at will whilst rubbing shoulders with some like minds and having a good many insightful and inspiring conversations. You can browse the trade stands and bargain bins, maybe go back two or three times to that layout that really caught your eye and possibly indulge in a pie and a cup of tea. In short, a good exhibition is a lovely way to while away a few hours. But none of that is really possible in a world of masks, screens, one-way systems, time-slots and whatever else. Time to just take a deep breath and jump back in, life is truly too short for anything else. Like woodenhead I do not disagree that at some time we have to move on and start returning to normal (whatever that actually means), so the question is when should that happen. So given a sharp rise in infections and a slow increase in deaths (which lag infections by a month or so) is this the right time to say after 19/7 we do what we want at exhibitions? Given that a football match is being blamed for 2000 infections in a nation of 5 million, it perhaps points to now not being the time to take the big step. I did vote for mask wearing - based on where we are now. To say I can wear a mask if I want totally misses the point. I wear my mask to protect others more than to protect myself, so if you are not going to wear a mask in an enclosed place, then I have to think twice about attending in the face of what essentially is your selfishness. The idea of free day and protected day falls flat on its face because you miss the important element of exhibitions - the organisers, traders, exhibitors and demonstrators. Some of those will undoubtedly be of a mindset like mine, that currently they want social distancing, masks etc. So how would it be on your free day if some of the traders stalls were covered over with a number of the layouts likewise. The one layout you really came to see is not there because they decided it was not worth the hassle of the team travelling 100 miles for what for them is a one day show. "Time to just take a deep breath and jump back in, life is truly too short for anything else." - and indeed may prove to be shorter than planned if we rush into complete freedom and do whatever we want. For me now is too soon to be fully back to normal and we should learn to walk again so to speak before we try running exhibitions as they used to be. 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, Andy Hayter said: For me now is too soon to be fully back to normal and we should learn to walk again so to speak before we try running exhibitions as they used to be. ....which is exactly why South Notts are going ahead with a smaller show in the usual venue (Cotgrave Welfare) and keeping in place certain restrictions even if Boris wants to cancel them. If Woodenhead thinks our one-way system is an object of mirth then that is his prerogative. It was a serious attempt to show that a one-way system isn't necessarily a National Trust "in one end and troop through until you reach the gift shop". Lastly on ventilation- we will have the entrance and exit doors wide open, and will also have the double doors to the outside eating area open. With the high level extractors also going we are trying to get as secure as we can. My guess is that with the biggest vector of transmission (schools, though there is a reluctance to read this into the data) closed for six weeks, we should be able to get in before any Autumn wave begins (4th and 5th September). In the mean time if anyone is in the mood to visit a small show in the London area I'm at Potters Bar at the Wyllyotts Theatre on Saturday July 31st. Again a small show with masks and a one-way system. Half a dozen N-gauge overseas themed layouts plus demonstrations, displays and Mount Tabor Models amongst others. Bregenbach im Schwarzwald's debut show. Les Not shamed of the blatant plug. Edited July 2, 2021 by Les1952 typos 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Solo said: a signal that as we near the endgame of the pandemic Do you really believe that we are nearing end-game? It certainly doesn't feel like that to me. In most of the world, Covi-19 is nowhere near under the control of vaccines yet, vast numbers of new cases are arising every day, mutations are certain, and there is a high probability that some will arise that can evade, partly or wholly, the partial protection given by vaccinations already administered in the UK, and if they arise, they will (not might) get here at some stage or the other. So, for a while yet, maybe a few years, we will be forever having to revise our defences. The fat lady hasn't sung yet. Which isn't to say that there isn't scope to relax some precautions (I rather doubt that there is scope to jettison them all yet) very soon; its just to say that it is perfectly foreseeable that it might be necessary to return to some of them, even to deep lockdown (God forbid), before we get to the actual end-game. Regarding your flu analogy: Covid-19 is something like 20 to 40 times more deadly than flu, that's why we have had to enact much greater precautions against it. The step-up in nastiness from flu to covid might be thought of in terms of the step-up in nastiness from a common cold to real flu - its a big step. I wouldn't argue with your view that a MR exhibition with oodles of covid precautions in place could be a pretty "flat beer" experience, but if one comes along, I might coose to have flat beer, rather than no beer, or the full effervescence and a bl@@dy nasty disease for days/weeks/months. Edited July 2, 2021 by Nearholmer 2 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted July 2, 2021 RMweb Premium Share Posted July 2, 2021 On 01/07/2021 at 12:09, Derekl said: My problem with masks is that I wear glasses and they steam up so I can't see. I have fiddled around to try and sort it out without much success. Trying to read the newspaper in the train is a nuisance. It means taking them off regularly in an effort to wipe, but that is not always effective. Any constructive ideas welcome. The relation to the topic is that mask wearing might discourage me from attending exhibitions, although I fully appreciate that it might be a necessity. I wear glasses but I've discovered a little trick that alleviates the problem but it might not work with all face masks*. I fold the top edge of the mask in so that there's a double barrier. It also makes it easier to blouse out the mask in front of the mouth. Breathing through the mouth also helps. I do still have a problem when going into a warm room from the cold but the misting ceases after a few minutes. *I use soft cloth face masks branded 'Step Ahead' obtainable from Tesco's. 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Hodgson Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 7 hours ago, CUCKOO LINE said: Interesting our local M&S food only seems to limit entry at opening to avoid bunching near the entrance as the early morning queue enters. M&S have a food outlet at Cambridge station - it seems so popular that I have seen them controlling entrance even before Covid, so that the customers already in there can get to the tills to pay. And the same at Addenbrooke's Hospital. Both outlets not really big enough to cope with peak demand. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wombatofludham Posted July 2, 2021 Share Posted July 2, 2021 Interesting survey and comments. I'm currently under de-facto isolation, not through any fear of catching CV19 - not only am I double jabbed, but I'm reasonably phlegmatic about these things - but because I have developed a deep seated psychological/psychiatric issue with masks. Ironically, I am able to wear an industrial face mask for about half an hour, which because it is shaped to fit rather than stretch across the face, I can cope with and which, according to what I have read, actually does offer me some protection, unlike cloth "face nappies" which barely stop an infected person from spreading their germs, especially the way most people don't wash them or wear them properly. It's being in a non-medical situation surrounded by people in masks that puts me into "fight or flight" mode that's the issue. I can't even look at the person behind the counter of the petrol station without getting anxious, so supermarkets are out, or anything where I am likely to encounter a lot of masked people. God only knows where this has come from, but a mask exemption sunflower lanyard is no help to me, which was the only thing the medics could suggest. I suspect moving forward people are going to increasingly wear masks, when out and about, in a similar fashion to the way a lot of people wear masks in places like Japan and China, even if compulsory mask wearing is abolished at some point. As access to psychiatric/psychological help at the moment is woeful, I've come to the conclusion that in the medium term any non-essential contact with the outside world won't be happening for me. I realise I am very much an outlier, and my particular issue can't be accommodated, but I do wonder if I am that unique, or whether others have similar difficulties. Whilst mask wearers, their issues, exemption displays, and the morons like Laurence Fox who pretend to be exempt from mask wearing to just make a pathetic point, are all well documented, my house arrest is for a completely different reason that longer term may become seriously debilitating. 1 16 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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