Can anyone identify this mystery object from a wreck off Dover?

[MikeTrice]

All I have been told is it was recovered from a wreck off of Dover and the ship contained WW1 Locomotive and carriage parts:

 

 

[A Murphy]

Signals rocket/flare projector? Pure guesswork. 

[Adam FW]

I think it's the grip and surround for the trigger mechanism off a naval gun, there's a few similar items listed on google images as naval trigger mechanisms and they seem to have the same connectors on the underside but a different mounting face

 

 

You can see something similar on the back of this 37mm Maxim

 

 

https://www.morphyauctions.com/jamesdjulia/item/50927-1-397/

Edited August 11, 2021 by Adam FW

[Nearholmer]

I wonder if the curved mounting is because it relates to the arc of movement of an elevating mount.

[PenrithBeacon]

Possibly because it will fit into the palm of a hand

[Nearholmer]

I'm talking about the other end, Penrith, the curved shape that clearly interfaces with some other component, rather than the palm of the hand.

[Hroth]

I was thinking it could be the butt end of a Schermuly Line Throwing Pistol, or something similar, but that is completely different.

 

It would have to be for firing a Sea to Sea weapon like the one illustrated above, its too unhandy for an AA weapon!

[MikeTrice]

Thanks for the suggestions so far.

I agree it is definitely some form of trigger mechanism. It is the curved mounting brackets that have me scratching my head.

[chris p bacon]

If the ship was cargo it's unlikely to be a weapon/heavy gun* The only other uses are flare gun (although they're generally hand held so they can be fired in any direction from any deck) or firing a line.

 

*Putting larger guns on Cargo vessels as a defence had a somewhat limited use, there were instances of them being fired and promptly ripping themselves from the deck plate, and in several cases going over the side.

[Hroth]

3 hours ago, chris p bacon said:

If the ship was cargo it's unlikely to be a weapon/heavy gun

 

But if other items associated with the wreck were locomotive & carriage parts, it might have been part of a consignment of Naval spares.

[chris p bacon]

1 hour ago, Hroth said:

 

But if other items associated with the wreck were locomotive & carriage parts, it might have been part of a consignment of Naval spares.

 

I'd completely forgotten it could be cargo........Duh ..

[spamcan61]

I'm thinking some sort of trigger operated fluid valve, with a pipe connected to each of the two threaded holes when installed. Curved mounting bracket as it would be fitted to the side of a cylindrical tank of some sort.

 

Like a petrol pump handle, sort of.

Complete guesswork of course.

Edited August 12, 2021 by spamcan61

[CameronL]

2 hours ago, spamcan61 said:

I'm thinking some sort of trigger operated fluid valve, with a pipe connected to each of the two threaded holes when installed. Curved mounting bracket as it would be fitted to the side of a cylindrical tank of some sort.

 

Like a petrol pump handle, sort of.

Complete guesswork of course.

I really like that idea, but the trigger guard is so small that  the trigger would be pretty much an "on off switch" in that you couldn't vary the flow rate as you could with a petrol pump handle, which is much bigger and uses all four fingers. Could it be to provide a jolt of compressed air to something? What on a WW1 cargo ship would need a jolt of compressed air?

 

(My collection of sunken treasure includes the timing head of an artillery shell from a wreck off Cornwall and a NAAFI mug I found on a wreck which had been bombed by the Luftwaffe, sunk and lain underwater for 41 years when I dived it).

[CameronL]

32 minutes ago, CameronL said:

What on a WW1 cargo ship would need a jolt of compressed air?

A torpedo tube? It would explain the curved mounting.

[SForrest10]

Could it be a part of an engine start mechanism. Air start or cordite etc.

[Stevie]

Visual signaling  fixed to a shuttered light for morse code.

[tomparryharry]

Royal Armouries might shed some knowledge. 

[billbedford]

I took the liberty of posting links to these photos to the maritime history list, Marhst-L, and people there came to similar conclusions as have been posted here. ie it was a firing tigger for a signal gun or a 6 or 9 pounder. However one knowledgable person has posted these questions:

 

Quote

I have no definitive answer, but am very curious and have a few questions stemming from the photographs.  The suggestion (or am I mistaken?) is that this is from a saltwater wreck dating back 100+ years to WWI. The bronze/brass/alloy portions have been cleaned? polished? show occasional verdigris that looks a lot younger than "century old." Even more questionable is the apparently pristine machining of the edges of some of the countersinks -- why were the screws removed? Can we see them?

Moving from the 'bronze', to the black block ahead of the trigger guard.  What metal is that?  A somewhat wild guess is anodized aluminium - not used industrially until several years after WWI (mid 1920s? seaplanes? Junkers?)  And if the scratches were not made by careless cleaning after recovery, corrosion should be more clearly evident.

Lastly the hydraulic? electrical? (possibly even mechanical cable) screw-in connectors.  What material are they?  The knurling just looks too perfect for a hundred years of saltwater, unless they are plastic (even an early Bakelite or other phenol based compound would possibly or even probably deny a WWI origin.)

Again, I'm just curious.

 

[MikeTrice]

I have passed this on to the person who might have more details regarding their recovery.

[New Haven Neil]

On 12/08/2021 at 15:55, chris p bacon said:

If the ship was cargo it's unlikely to be a weapon/heavy gun* The only other uses are flare gun (although they're generally hand held so they can be fired in any direction from any deck) or firing a line.

 

*Putting larger guns on Cargo vessels as a defence had a somewhat limited use, there were instances of them being fired and promptly ripping themselves from the deck plate, and in several cases going over the side.

 

I sailed on a late 1950's merchant vessel 'that may or may not' have had strengthened sections in the deck at strangely appropriate positions for mounting weapons.  I was told the (British) company got monies at the time of build for such things.  Just in case.  They would have been totally pointless by then, but Governments aren't famed for agile thinking.