Nicknames of the railway companies.

[JZ]

2 hours ago, Phatbob said:

LMS = Late Monday to Sunday

 

I've also heard it referred to as L of MS.

[Mike_Walker]

12 minutes ago, APOLLO said:

The Manchester Sheffield & Lincolnshire Railway (MS&L) became the Money Sunk and Lost when it built the main line down to Marylebone and changed the name to The Great Central Railway.

 

Brit15

Otherwise known as Gone Completely.

[2251]

On 23/08/2021 at 16:08, Compound2632 said:

 

Perhaps before your time? Not Ahrons though, he was a Swindon apprentice in the 1880s so, on the whole, loyal to the Great Western.

 

It substantially pre-dates both Ahrons and Nock.

 

The earliest use I have found dates from 1873 in the British Quarterly Review, attributed to "Lord Grosevnor", by which I think was meant Lord Richard Grosvenor (second son of the Marquess of Westminster; later created Lord Stanbridge), who was much involved with the LNWR .

[Compound2632]

Just now, 2251 said:

 

It substantially pre-dates both Ahrons and Nock.

 

The earliest use I have found dates from 1873 in the British Quarterly Review, attributed to "Lord Grosevnor", by which I think was meant Lord Richard Grosvenor (second son of the Marquess of Westminster; later created Lord Stanbridge), who was much involved with the LNWR .

 

Remind me: to what was I referring two years ago?

[2251]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

Remind me: to what was I referring two years ago?

 

The old trope that "GWR" stands for "Great Way Round".

[Compound2632]

24 minutes ago, 2251 said:

The old trope that "GWR" stands for "Great Way Round".

 

Ah, the, your 1873 reference is interesting - a good quarter-century before the various Edwardian cut-offs that shortened the Great Western's routes between London and the West Country, London and Birmingham, and Birmingham and the West Country, and indeed before the South Wales route was shortened by the Severn Tunnel; a time when the epithet was well and truly justified!  

[kevinlms]

57 minutes ago, 2251 said:

 

The old trope that "GWR" stands for "Great Way Round".

Not 'Greasy, Wet and Rusty'?

[ChrisN]

Others referred to it as Grub, Water, Rest.

[Wickham Green too]

50 minutes ago, kevinlms said:

Not 'Greasy, Wet and Rusty'?

... or 'Green, Wet and Rusty'.

[The Stationmaster]

16 hours ago, JZ said:

I've also heard it referred to as L of MS.

The ('el)L of a MesS

 

On the Western the Southern was still calked 'the tramway' well into the 1990s.  

My views were rather different but I was amused to find when I got involved with the former SR in the 1990s that it was basically still three somewhat separate Pre-Grouping companies where some of theh staff in all of them had low opinions of the other two.  And when I was filling newly created posts one of my staff said of one chap - 'Oh, he's alright, good bloke - he's off the South Western' 

 

However we do now have trams running on the GWML - painted in a TfL livery and calling themselves the Elizabeth Line.  Their riding is now getting to a lstatel, especially over pointwork, where they wouldn't be given house room at Crich although oddly they seem to ride much better when they're underground.

[Compound2632]

9 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

My views were rather different but I was amused to find when I got involved with the former SR in the 1990s that it was basically still three somewhat separate Pre-Grouping companies where some of theh staff in all of them had low opinions of the other two.

 

And one of those three had been two distinct companies, legally. I wonder if there was still any residue of South Eastern vs. Chatham antipathy?

[Mike_Walker]

28 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The ('el)L of a MesS

 

On the Western the Southern was still calked 'the tramway' well into the 1990s.  

My views were rather different but I was amused to find when I got involved with the former SR in the 1990s that it was basically still three somewhat separate Pre-Grouping companies where some of theh staff in all of them had low opinions of the other two.  And when I was filling newly created posts one of my staff said of one chap - 'Oh, he's alright, good bloke - he's off the South Western' 

 

However we do now have trams running on the GWML - painted in a TfL livery and calling themselves the Elizabeth Line.  Their riding is now getting to a lstatel, especially over pointwork, where they wouldn't be given house room at Crich although oddly they seem to ride much better when they're underground.

Back in the day there was a door in the building on the old platform 4 at Reading marked: "For the use of SR traincrew only".  When this was mentioned to a WR Divisional Manager the reply came back: "Well we don't want their tram drivers mixing with our blokes."

 

As for the riding of the 345s underground, well there's only a few points down there, they are still new and haven't been subjected to continual pounding by 3000 tonne stone trains!

[Wickham Green too]

... not to mention the air cushion between the train and the tunnel wall !!

[009 micro modeller]

1 hour ago, The Stationmaster said:

On the Western the Southern was still calked 'the tramway' well into the 1990s.  

Why, because it’s electric?

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, 009 micro modeller said:

Why, because it’s electric?

 

I understood that it was not only that - the drivers of the early units standing like tram-drivers - but also because of the clockface timetable. 

[009 micro modeller]

Just now, Compound2632 said:

 

I understood that it was not only that - the drivers of the early units standing like tram-drivers - but also because of the clockface timetable. 

In which case it’s perhaps not quite the insult that it’s made out to be.

[Compound2632]

4 minutes ago, 009 micro modeller said:

In which case it’s perhaps not quite the insult that it’s made out to be.

 

I think it was. I did read that Sir Felix Pole said, after a meeting with Sir Herbert Walker, "How interesting to meet a tramway manager." Whether that's the origin, or Pole was just repeating an already well-worn Western prejudice, I could not say.

[kevinlms]

4 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

And one of those three had been two distinct companies, legally. I wonder if there was still any residue of South Eastern vs. Chatham antipathy?

Does Birmingham New Street still suffer from a divided station, where apparently the LNWR and Midland halves pretended the other didn't exist! Or did the 60s rebuilding break down barriers?

[Compound2632]

1 minute ago, kevinlms said:

Does Birmingham New Street still suffer from a divided station, where apparently the LNWR and Midland halves pretended the other didn't exist! Or did the 60s rebuilding break down barriers?

 

To the extent that platforms 1 to 7 - more or less the old North Western side - lead more naturally onto the London & Birmingham and Stour Valley lines and platforms 8 - 12 - the Midland side - lead onto the Gloucester, Derby, and West Suburban lines, then you could argue so. But this began to be broken down by with the Cross-City Line services in the 1970s, uniting the Sutton Coldfield branch (ex-LNWR) services with the West Suburban (ex-Midland) services. the Cross-City Line trains have always used the Midland side. This caused congestion, since they had to pass right across the down London line. This has been eased by remodelling the Grand Junction flyover some years ago so as to lead the Grand Junction lines directly into the Gloucester lines.

 

But I wouldn't say there is any appreciable difference in "atmosphere" on the two sides, at least not since the 45s came off the Bristol - Newcastle trains...

[Wickham Green too]

52 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

... I wouldn't say there is any appreciable difference in "atmosphere" ...

It's just like any other shopping centre ......... ☹️

[bécasse]

6 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I think it was. I did read that Sir Felix Pole said, after a meeting with Sir Herbert Walker, "How interesting to meet a tramway manager." Whether that's the origin, or Pole was just repeating an already well-worn Western prejudice, I could not say.

Envy! Walker, alone among the big four GMs was spending money (carefully) left, right and centre to modernise his railway and was getting excellent financial results in return, even in those straitened times.

 

While I was at Oxford in the mid-1960s, the Southern Region starting timing some of its trains in the WTT to ¼ minutes, a fellow OURS member (who went on to be a highly respected railway manager) was heard to comment that the Western Region could apparently manage no better than timing to hours and quarter hours - or so it seemed from the punctuality of its trains.

[The Stationmaster]

22 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

 

I understood that it was not only that - the drivers of the early units standing like tram-drivers - but also because of the clockface timetable. 

The drivers of the early electric units weren't Drivers - they were <otormen - which was a different grade on a different rate of pay.  And that difference lasted for a good number of years - d cerainly well into SR days if not even a bit longer..

[The Stationmaster]

15 hours ago, bécasse said:

Envy! Walker, alone among the big four GMs was spending money (carefully) left, right and centre to modernise his railway and was getting excellent financial results in return, even in those straitened times.

 

While I was at Oxford in the mid-1960s, the Southern Region starting timing some of its trains in the WTT to ¼ minutes, a fellow OURS member (who went on to be a highly respected railway manager) was heard to comment that the Western Region could apparently manage no better than timing to hours and quarter hours - or so it seemed from the punctuality of its trains.

I've no doubt that WPB was pretty nearly right in those days.  His approach was very different later (I'm presuming that it was WPB because it certainly sounds like him).

[BachelorBoy]

11 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The drivers of the early electric units weren't Drivers - they were <otormen - which was a different grade on a different rate of pay.  And that difference lasted for a good number of years - d cerainly well into SR days if not even a bit longer..

 

Hong Kong tram drivers are still called motormen

 

[Compound2632]

16 minutes ago, The Stationmaster said:

The drivers of the early electric units weren't Drivers - they were <otormen - which was a different grade on a different rate of pay.  And that difference lasted for a good number of years - d cerainly well into SR days if not even a bit longer..

 

A lower grade with lower pay? There must, as electrification spread, have been drivers who were obliged to transfer from steam to electric...