'Ballamoddey' - 1937 on the Mid Sodor Railway

[brack]

2 hours ago, KeithHC said:

Not always in the 60’s during one rebuild Prince did have straight frames. However it reverted to stepped frames on the next rebuild. All the other remaining England engines have stepped frames.

 

Keith

You are correct, I'd forgotten that - for 6 years in the 60s.

 

 

It was essentially an extra girder stuck on the outside, rather than a solid running plate - the boiler is a structural component in the england locos, it was a bit of a bodge to try and remove the stresses/loading from the boiler barrel.

 

However the illustration with the flat running plate has the cab spectacles raised up above the tank, and they weren't back then. When prince's frames were put back to normal they raised the cab by 4", which gave the increased distance from tank to spectacles.

 

Of course if I were choosing how to model Duke, I suspect I'd choose to model it in as close to kato condition as possible - the model looks good!

[fastforwardtt]

apologies for what happened earlier

will Pre 1915 Ravenglass & Eskdale railway be used for inspiration?

[AY Mod]

9 minutes ago, fastforwardtt said:

apologies for what happened earlier

will Pre 1915 Ravenglass & Eskdale railway be used for inspiration?

 

Those are also copyright images. Did you read the forum's copyright rules as requested?

 

Any further breach will lead to removal of access.

[Tom F]

20 minutes ago, brack said:

Of course if I were choosing how to model Duke, I suspect I'd choose to model it in as close to kato condition as possible - the model looks good!

Hi brack

Yes, I've gone with a Kato Princess as the donor for Duke. I've imagined Peter Edward's went with as many reference photos of Prince that he found, or the Reverend supplied him with. I'm not a fan of the straight running plate, so I'm grateful for the kato model being stepped.

[Tom F]

1 hour ago, Aire Head said:

 

Without dragging up my copy of TIOS do we know when No. 2 Stanley was turned into a stationary boiler?

 

38 minutes ago, BritishGypsum4 said:

I've just looked Stanley up in the IOS and there is no date given for when he arrived to the line nor is there a date for when they decided to turn him into a pumping engine. 
 

 

It would have to be early 1920s (at the earliest), seen as No. 2 would have turned up as army surplus circa 1919. I'd have imagined in those post war years the MSR would have tried their upmost to get the most out of the locomotive before deciding to relegate it to stationary boiler use.

Edited December 27, 2021 by Tom F

[Aire Head]

2 hours ago, Tom F said:

It would have to be early 1920s (at the earliest), seen as No. 2 would have turned up as army surplus circa 1919. I'd have imagined in those post war years the MSR would have tried their upmost to get the most out of the locomotive before deciding to relegate it to stationary boiler use.

 

It does get a bit confusing around this area as Stuart arrived in 1920 and seems to have no memory of Stanley. Falcon arrived in 1904 and seems to have forgotten about him too although we do see Stanley sat in the back of the shed in an illustration of Sir Handel.

 

In your depiction are the locomotives machines rather than the sentient characters we have grown to love? (the lack of faces would lead me to assume so but it's your railway and I wouldn't want to cause offence). If so I guess that part of the story can be ignored I guess?

 

The MSR seems like the kind of perennially cash strapped railway that would try and drag a useful existence out of a locomotive for as long as possible. Personally I think Stanley would have been in use for at least for a few years before they gave up on him and turned him into a pumping engine. Most probably before your 1936 timeline however I would have thought if you don't mind me saying.

[Tom F]

With the top layer of boards now glued down, I’ve made a start on cutting out the formation for the Peel Godred - Arlesburgh over bridge that the MSR passes over on the approach into Ballamoddey.

 

 

[Tom F]

Had a nice visit from @BritishGypsum4yesterday. We did some Awdry research discussing MSR matters, before looking at the layouts. Ben was fettling my Royal Mail Land Rover in the photo.

 

I then gave Ben some tips and advice on airbrushing, so took the opportunity to spray my MSR brake van blue. 
 

 

We went out for a lovely meal before some discussion regarding other types of road vehicles I’ll need for a 1937-38 layout.

All in all, a great day!

[Alister_G]

It looks like David Vickers is having trouble with the Landy?

 

Al.

[MrWolf]

I'm sure that the permanent way department will have a suitably weighted hammer to make the necessary adjustments?

[Tom F]

Some advice would be welcome please.

If I’m not careful, Ballamoddey could grind to a halt, as I’m approaching the area I’m most uncomfortable with……wiring.

Scaca used the points manually and unwired, which was fine but relying on the point blades to supply the current has its issues.

I would like to do Ballamoddey with fully wired points abs slide switches. Firstly, does the screen shot of the slides switches look about right?

 

Secondly. I will need to hardwire these points, what will be required doing to them, as the smaller points look slightly different to the longer ones.

 

 

I’d ideally like to get on with this sooner rather than later, otherwise enthusiasm I know will begin to ebb.

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by Tom F

[cctransuk]

Tom,

 

I can tell you what I did for Peco Electrofrog 16.5mm. gauge points - which shouldn't be too different.

This shows which wires to cut - ignore the rest of the wiring.

 

 

This shows two alternative ways of bonding the rails; (courtesy of 'Ruston').

 

 

This is how I arranged the point actuation / polarity switching - you need slide switches with long operating pegs to do this.

 

The following is how I arranged the tiebar actuation :-

 

 

"M.T.A.V. (Model Tramway Association of Victoria) has evolved a simple method of operating points mechanically from below the baseboard using a modified brass hinge and 1/32in. piano wire, incorporating a 'Z' bend,to the lever frame/operating knobs (still to be finally decided which). The hinges in the photos are solid-drawn, 38mm long and 3/32in bore, with a smooth sliding fit for the tube. The available travel of the operating wire is about 8mm - more than enough - even with a brass sleeve to stiffen the bottom of the 1/32in. vertical wire connecting to the points. The hinges come with a brass hinge-pin which is easily knocked out to give two identical pieces, for about $AUD 1 each, say about 65p.

 

For extra stiffness, the vertical wire passes completely though the brass tube and is well-soldered on both sides for strength. Also. if required, the vertical wire can be arranged outside the confines of the hinge itself. Please note that the vertical wire will be placed 180 degrees from what's in the photo when in place under baseboards!

 

Another unexpected bonus is that the hinge bore is offset from the flat section enough that the unit could actually be mounted on a vertical sub-baseboard cross-member if necessary and still allow the vertical wire to lie parallel with it. The wire would have to be made slightly longer as well as the strengthening sleeve, but it increases the flexibility of the mech. Hopefully the attached sketch will make this easier to follow.

 

Graeme"

 

You will see that most of this is poached from elsewhere, but the method of mounting the switches on trunking, and the adjustable screw link in the actuating wire, are my own embellishments.

 

John Isherwood.

 

 

 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by cctransuk

[PaulRhB]

As John shows you can isolate the blades from the frog (although I use the method as he has I also put jumper wires from the blade to the stock rail as Ruston does so the blades aren’t relying on contact)

 

There is a slightly simpler method, without cutting the frog to blades wires, but it does mean there can be shorts if back to back measurements are out as the blades are always live to the frog. 
You need isolating fishplates on both rails within the red circle. You’ll only need one pole of the switch, three contacts on one side to do the switching leaving the other three spare. 

Edited December 30, 2021 by PaulRhB

[JustinDean]

I’ve commented on your FB page Tom. Just to reiterate- don’t get center off switches! Everything else you need to know has been covered very well in the posts above. 
 

Jay

[Tom F]

Thanks for all the feedback, it is very much appreciated.

 

So I don't have to cut the wires between the blades and the frog?

I'm unsure why the smaller points don't have this adjoining bit underneath.

 

I've buried my head in the sand for a long time with wiring point work, but want to get this right. Just something that is reliable and works with the slide switches.

[Butler Henderson]

Peco are s..l..o...w...l...y upgrading their points - the newer ones, and those  they have got round to, have the wire links. You can carefully cut the fixed section  of the switch rails of the small LH & RH points with a jewellers piercing saw (use the same saw if you need to remove any of the plastic moulding in order to make space for a soldered wire).  The small Y point is best left alone  due to the limited extent of rail fixings on the section you need to cut.

[PaulRhB]

2 hours ago, Tom F said:

I don't have to cut the wires between the blades and the frog?

No it’s not essential. I do it and wire the switch blades to the stock rails because it  just reduces the chance of a short if stock derails on the point. I usually prep the point on the bench as it’s easy. 
 

These are the HOm points and although they don’t have the easy to cut wires underneath, (I have to slit the rails very carefully from the top to achieve the same result), you can see the wires bonding the switch blades to the stock rails, arrowed. 

 

With the mainline 009 points I snip the wires to the frog from underneath with a pair of wire cutters and just bend the cut ends aside so they can’t contact by accident. 
 

Then I just cut holes in the board and drop in the switch. As the micro ones perfectly match the throw I don’t always use an omega loop in the operating link.

 

On the modules they are then hidden in the scenery. You can see the wire disappearing into the bank here and there’s a square cutout in the fascia to access it. 

 

Edited December 30, 2021 by PaulRhB

[Alister_G]

Just to offer an alternative, you could use the Gaugemaster autofrog (other makes are available) which would mean you would not have to have a switch at all, they will work happily with either point motors or manual operation.

 

You would modify the points as above, isolating the frog and bonding the stock rails to their adjacent closure rails, then you simply wire the autofrog to the two rails and the frog as below:

 

The device detects the polarity of the approaching rail as a wheel passes and adjusts the frog polarity to suit, so quickly that there is no short circuit.

 

I use these on Ladmanlow, with PL-10 point motors, as it means fault free operation with no tedious adjustment or accurate alignment of a built in switch on the point motor. If I'm feeling lazy, and can't be a*rsed to connect the point motor power, I can change the turnout direction by hand and they still work.

 

Al.

 

 

[Tom F]

2 hours ago, PaulRhB said:

No it’s not essential. I do it and wire the switch blades to the stock rails because it  just reduces the chance of a short if stock derails on the point. I usually prep the point on the bench as it’s easy. 
 

These are the HOm points and although they don’t have the easy to cut wires underneath, (I have to slit the rails very carefully from the top to achieve the same result), you can see the wires bonding the switch blades to the stock rails, arrowed. 

 

With the mainline 009 points I snip the wires to the frog from underneath with a pair of wire cutters and just bend the cut ends aside so they can’t contact by accident. 
 

Then I just cut holes in the board and drop in the switch. As the micro ones perfectly match the throw I don’t always use an omega loop in the operating link.

 

On the modules they are then hidden in the scenery. You can see the wire disappearing into the bank here and there’s a square cutout in the fascia to access it. 

 

 

Many thanks fo all tis Paul.

So for my smaller point, which doesn't appear to have a frog wire, would doing something like this look right.

 

[Possy92]

Hi Tom,

 

Looking forward to seeing more of your work! If your previous layout is anything to go by, we're all in for a treat!

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

[St Enodoc]

11 hours ago, Tom F said:

Firstly, does the screen shot of the slides switches look about right?

Yes, although you probably don't need DPDTs. SPDTs would do if there is a cost saving.

 

However, make sure that the throw of the points is enough to allow the switch to change over. If not, you will have to modify the linkage in some way.

[PaulRhB]

9 hours ago, Tom F said:

 

Many thanks fo all tis Paul.

So for my smaller point, which doesn't appear to have a frog wire, would doing something like this look right.

 

Tom the ‘crazy track’ 12” rad point doesn’t have the rails split at the frog so the blue jumpers will cause a short unless you cut the rails where the orange line is too. I agree it’s a bit confusing as the points are from different eras design wise!

Just powering the frog from the switch still has its advantages in reliability if you just leave off the blue jumpers. 

I’m a sucker for punishment and cut the rails very carefully with a small slitting disc, (others use a piercing saw), and protect the outer rails with card but you have to go careful so you don’t get too much heat and melt the chairs holding the rail  

[5BarVT]

9 hours ago, Tom F said:

So for my smaller point, which doesn't appear to have a frog wire, would doing something like this look right.

No.  (Sorry!)

The cyan wires will just short out the supply as drawn (red, LH cyan, up through the V, RH cyan, black).

So your options are:

1. Remove cyan and green wires - relies on switch blade contact, which is probably fine until you add paint.

2. Remove cyan, retain green wire - fine unless switch blades make up contact before switch (electrical) loses contact the other way.  Gut feel is that this will not be a problem (I believe it can be with slow action point motors where the motor moves before and after the switches).

3. Cut the rails between the cyan wires and the V - works electrically, but due to the short nature of the point I think you will be left with bits of rail that might not be too well supported and could rotate.

 

Gut feel is that option 2 will be best for you.  Hopefully others with experience of this size/gauge of point will be able to confirm (or advise otherwise).

 

Paul.

 

[5BarVT]

T’other Paul beat me to it!  Looks like cutting the rails (my option 3) is possible with care.

Paul.

[Butler Henderson]

30 minutes ago, 5BarVT said:

T’other Paul beat me to it!  Looks like cutting the rails (my option 3) is possible with care.

It is with a jewellers piercing saw as I mentioned above - need to add the link wires

 

Edited December 31, 2021 by Butler Henderson