Steamport Southport Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 27 minutes ago, Chuffed 1 said: It seems to me that much of this offering is weighted towards the collector, rather than the operator. Maybe that’s where the money is now. Agree that types more useful to operators ought to be included, and that there does seem to be a cold shoulder to the Southern and the Western left for other manufacturers. Wonder who will produce a Hawksworth County, a Maunsell W class or a new rebuilt Royal Scot? Is there a recently-tooled Johnson 3F out there at the moment? Perhaps the H class 31278 with P-P and flat bunker? We can but dream. It might be that they still have dozens of models left over from last year. I think it was something like 200 which were delayed. Most of which are a bit more "normal". Pecketts, BR 2MTs, H Class, Lord Nelsons, A3s, J36s, 51XXs, 9Fs, etc. And those delightful looking R&H diesel shunters. Jason 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuffed 1 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 minutes ago, Steamport Southport said: It might be that they still have dozens of models left over from last year. I think it was something like 200 which were delayed. Most of which are a bit more "normal". Pecketts, BR 2MTs, H Class, Lord Nelsons, A3s, J36s, 51XXs, 9Fs, etc. And those delightful looking R&H diesel shunters. Jason Good point, well made! 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan70000 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 12 minutes ago, RichardT said: As has the centenary of the merger of the Hull & Barnsley Railway with the NER. But, in modelling terms, so what? Or, to be less abrupt, what’s the significance that’s being ignored? Richard If only they'd produced a H&B Class B/LNER J23 to celebrate this... I've got absolutely zero interest in dubiously legal film tie-ins, nostalgia-tinged Triang revivals and overpriced metal Duchesses but I would have leapt at a Hull and Barnsley loco... Edited January 10, 2022 by nathan70000 1 2 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDoctor Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, Denbridge said: Your comment about a cost of living crisis is interesting. Do you honestly believe that model railways are exempt from the price increases that are going on worldwide? I've just seen an interesting comment from Simon K where amongst other things he mentions the increases Hornby are facing. One that stood out was shipping. A year ago they were paying around £2500 per container. That is now £12500, a huge increase. It makes me laugh when people seem to think their hobby is, or should be exempt from real world financial constraints. Please show me insane price increases for any other manufacturer (edit: for reference Dapol went up by 4% in 2021 and no more vs Hornby up by 10% 2021 and another 10% 2022). I'm fine and happy with my collection of locomotives so no skin off my nose if people can't afford it but do you honestly think it's helping or hindering the hobby? How about all those new people wanting to join the hobby and see the price of a locomotive (from Hornby on average around £200 for a new one) or a train pack (around £350) and are put off? Or does your rich self think that it's fine because you can afford it? It's supposed to be a hobby for everyone and not for the upper class snobs Edited January 10, 2022 by TheDoctor adding information 5 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 3 minutes ago, TheDoctor said: How about all those new people wanting to join the hobby and see the price of a locomotive (from Hornby on average around £200 for a new one) or a train pack (around £350) and are put off? Or does your rich self think that it's fine because you can afford it? It's supposed to be a hobby for everyone and not for the upper class snobs Families don't seem to have any problem spending £450 on a new games console, and then £50 or more for games. Or £500 or more for an iPad Things today cost what they cost, and families seem to find a way to generally afford them. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 hours ago, confused said: Far to expensive compared to Accurascale, I'd love another SpamCan, but £220 after dealer discount and old tooling! Wait and see what Accurascale's 2022 prices end up being, they may not be as expensive as Hornby but Accurscale won't be immune to the significant cost increases from China and shipping that are impacting Hornby and everyone else. 2 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wheatley Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 hours ago, Farang said: I'm surprised no one has commented on some of the prices. The country is entering a period of high inflation which is going to affect peoples disposable income, especially the older generation (who buy steam models) who are on fixed incomes. Even at 10% off prices for some items are still high. The real train service on my line was Black 5, Black 5, Black 5, two Black 5s, Clan, Black 5 .... But at £230 each the upside of this announcement for me is that I'll have more second hand ones to choose from. I'm aware of the inflationary pressures but I can paint my own crew (better than Hornby if their cows are anything to go by) and I don't need gimmicky lighting up stuff. There's not a lot wrong with the old that a new tender chassis and some decent bogie wheels wouldn't fix. 3 1 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrunn Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 9 hours ago, JSpencer said: So will we ever see an Ivatt Caprotti black 5 (with smoke generator)? I'm holding my breath between waiting or chipping in for a Turbomotive (which I already have built as a kit). Then again, maybe I don't need a second Turbolocomotive... im new to this website, you built that as a kit!? thats awesome! who makes the kit? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrunn Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, mdvle said: Families don't seem to have any problem spending £450 on a new games console, and then £50 or more for games. Or £500 or more for an iPad Things today cost what they cost, and families seem to find a way to generally afford them. the difference is games consoles & ipads are one off purchases, made one every few years. Model loco's are meant to be items that you buy a few of every year, not spending almost £1000 on 3 locos, which you could actually do with some of these new loco's, which is insane. 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanInHisDen Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 I hope the K&ESR terrier pack is still availible on june 5th so I can get one for myself. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr chapman Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 6 hours ago, Dunsignalling said: Flannel Jacket was always going to be the preferred choice for those whose modelling era isn't 1941, i.e. the vast majority. Also, Hornby know by how much they under-supplied dealer orders the first time around and should have a much better idea of how many more they can shift. The potential sales for 21C2 would be much more of a guess. John But its the same model. Both from 1941, both with the horse shoe, cast plate on the tender. It's only a change of name and number. Doesn't worry me in any event. Fox do some etched bits for a renumbering job. Just odd that Hornby could have sold those to people who have 21C1 and those who missed it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve45 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 hours ago, nathan70000 said: Hmm, I didn't hear about that. Surely if this was the case, though, prices would rise across the range equally on everything? I'll have to check but I'm pretty sure the six wheel coaches (for example) haven't increased significantly in price since last year. The massive 50% hikes we're seeing only seem to apply to locos. I doubt if transport costs represent a significant proportion of the total cost of a locomotive, so probably went up from 50p per item to £2.50 ( a rough guess at 5000 items in a container which is probably a lot less than can actually be loaded within a container. So what justifies the rest of the recent increases? 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, Outrunn said: the difference is games consoles & ipads are one off purchases, made one every few years. Model loco's are meant to be items that you buy a few of every year, not spending almost £1000 on 3 locos, which you could actually do with some of these new loco's, which is insane. Yes, but it didn't used to be that way. Three locos in a year would have been unthinkable when I was 11 or12 (early sixties) and very few people owned more than one example of the same locomotive class. That all began to change when Airfix and Mainline emerged to challenge the established order in the late 1970s. Suddenly we had more accurate models at comparable or lower prices. I bought a Standard 4MT 4-6-0 despite having previously disposed of almost all my trains to finance a motorbike. The way things are going, I think most of us will need to trim our purchasing to levels we'd have found more familiar before Hornby production moved to China. John Edited January 10, 2022 by Dunsignalling 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve45 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 7 hours ago, Forester said: Great when a plan comes together. Prices here unaffordable. Nicely matched by there's nothing I remotely need here anyway. This year I deleted both main sellers I have used for decades but no longer give satisfactory deals, in favour of a newer dealer who does. Now I can delete a producer I have used for decades in favour of new producers who are willing to fill the loco class gaps. Roll on 2022. I think Hornby are milking prices. I will hold off until hey have to heavily discount the slow moving un-affordable stock 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jammy2305 Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 4 hours ago, shedman said: I'm disappointed that the centenary of the merger of the L&Y with the LNWR has been ignored. This happened before the 1923 Grouping.. To be fair the centenary model I was half expecting was a GNR liveried No.1470 'Great Northern' given the recently retooled A1... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dunsignalling Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 5 minutes ago, Mr chapman said: But its the same model. Both from 1941, both with the horse shoe, cast plate on the tender. It's only a change of name and number. Doesn't worry me in any event. Fox do some etched bits for a renumbering job. Just odd that Hornby could have sold those to people who have 21C1 and those who missed it. Yes but there's a traditional bias for those uncommitted to a particular prototype to prefer the first of the class. Missing out on 21C1 wouldn't necessarily inspire people to want 21C2, and Hornby know how many wanted but didn't get the former, it's the number they cut from dealer orders! That knowledge means they can more accurately judge the batch size that should sell out quickly at or near to the full asking price. It takes a whole load of uncertainty out of their planning. John Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
OOgaugeJaf Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Nothing new of interest for me. Poor show on the steam side this year. Hopefully Bachmann come up trumps even if it takes 4 years to produce. Hopefully G5 and A5 from Sonic arrive soon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSpencer Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Outrunn said: im new to this website, you built that as a kit!? thats awesome! who makes the kit? Thank you. It was K's or maybe Nucast which I brought in the early 90s second hand. I think they were originally made in the 70s. It is white metal and quite heavy. I know others have done resin versions for converting a Hornby Princess. While I don't doubt Hornby's efforts will be quite superior to mine, at the end of the day, this model has given me great pleasure (along with the W1 I did) while I suspect a Hornby one would be run one evening and left in its box ever more.... I've gone through all their steam offerings today, and this is the first year in about 30 years of buying Hornby where I can say for the first time "there is nothing for me". Even the black 5 with smoke, sound and firebox glow (and working headlamp in my case) already exists on my layout from the previous black 5 they did that I upgraded. I'm not disapointed, I'll just wait for them to add smoke, fire and sound to a class that does appeal to me, so potential for the future. And doubtless we will see other new loco classes that will please me in the future too. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdvle Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 2 hours ago, Outrunn said: the difference is games consoles & ipads are one off purchases, made one every few years. Model loco's are meant to be items that you buy a few of every year, not spending almost £1000 on 3 locos, which you could actually do with some of these new loco's, which is insane. First, nothing says you have to be buying 3 locos a year, or even if you do that they have to be these expensive top end models - there are still lots of very reasonable other options in the market. Second, the original poster was worried about that mythical new entrant to the hobby, often a kid. They don't need to, and perhaps are unlikely to, be buying 3 new locos a year. Finally, certainly with the games consoles and even with the iPads they aren't just one off purchases - there is an ongoing need to buy games and potentially other software or media. Which would be comparable to buying a goods wagon, or some scenery. Any hobby comes at a cost, and few of them are as cheap as some people remember from their childhood. 4 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 5 hours ago, RichardT said: As has the centenary of the merger of the Hull & Barnsley Railway with the NER. But, in modelling terms, so what? Or, to be less abrupt, what’s the significance that’s being ignored? Many railway companies merged before 1923. Richard L and Y was a considerable sized entity, as was the LNWR. History ignores the technical advances of the LYR.. (things like fully fitted freight, the most powerful freight loco, first 2-10-0, most powerful tank loco, and most powerful UK locomotive overall at their relevent times, electrification, dynanometer cars as well as subtle things like locos carrying lifting equipment etc)…. Largely because the “L” didnt stand for London, and the inferior Derby team wanted to stamp out all traces of L&Y. They moved the technical knowledge, research and skillset from Horwich to Derby, starting with the Crab. Locos like the Black 5, even Princess have some design traces back to Horwich, indeed to become a senior man on any railway, usually saw some educationary process through Horwich… Maunsell, Fowler, Gresley…, even holy Stanier was influenced. and the LNWRs history is well known…. The LMS in 1923 is basically what the LNW/LYR had already achieved, to challenge the equally large GWR. in modelling terms so what ? a 4-6-0 more powerful than a Castle, which was “borrowed” post 1923 and deployed LMS wide, 60 built.. a 4-6-4T equally as powerful and more balanced for forward and reverse travel, but usurped by Derbys inferior 2-6-4T. an 0-6-0 Goods of which near 500 were built, and lasted into the 1960’s, with similar class of near 280… and right down to a Butter van… a pretty unique little wagon for a very specific purpose… Where was the MR in this ? -an underfunded railway running an inferior fleet of aging small locomotives, with limited research, no fast network and failures like the Paget locomotive and needing to import US built log burner 2-6-0s adapted for coal. It was never going to beat the LNW, so it went for the skills and knowledge of the LYR instead. If 1923 hadnt happened, the MR would have been subsumed by another company, perhaps the LSWR. LYR was no little under funded beast like the much feted GCR, its just that history (and Derby) has been cruel to it, so very little survives… HBR ? LYR could have eaten Hull and Barnsley for breakfast. Edited January 10, 2022 by adb968008 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Great Eastern Lady Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 1 hour ago, DanInHisDen said: I hope the K&ESR terrier pack is still availible on june 5th so I can get one for myself. As far as I’m aware there are only 500 being made, so when they’ve gone they’ve gone. I have one on order, no guarantee I’ll get it 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Compound2632 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 10, 2022 8 minutes ago, adb968008 said: L and Y was a considerable sized entity, as was the LNWR. History ignores the technical advances of the LYR. Some nicely made points there, some overstated, some dubious (2-10-0? on paper, maybe), with an overdose of calumny re. Derby. Happy to take it point by point but the only one I will address is that there were 70, not 60, of the improved Dreadnoughts and the moment they were available to the amalgamated LNWR in 1922 they were drafted onto the northern English section of the WCML, the shortcomings of the 130 Claughtons having become increasingly apparent. There they staid until replaced by the Royal Scots, engines that were finally up to the job. So don't let anyone tell you they were failures; they were better than the other 4-cylinder express passenger 4-6-0 available to the LMS. They weren't as good as they might have been and they weren't as good as a Star or a Castle, but what in the early-mid 1920s was? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 Ahhh - The Titfield Thunderbolt & the Lancashire & Yorkshire Railway !! Wigan Wallgate (L&Y) 18 May 1980. Former Liverpool and Manchester Railway locomotive Lion is seen on a transfer working between Southport and Bold Colliery so that it could take part in the 150th anniversary of its former owners railway. No steam rollers were harmed during this trip, the bus, as usual, never showed up. Uncle Joes mintball factory is just off scene to the right, Uncle Joes mintballs keep you all aglow you know, give one to your Granny and watch the bu99er go. !!!!! Brit15 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steamport Southport Posted January 10, 2022 Share Posted January 10, 2022 15 minutes ago, JSpencer said: Thank you. It was K's or maybe Nucast which I brought in the early 90s second hand. I think they were originally made in the 70s. It is white metal and quite heavy. I know others have done resin versions for converting a Hornby Princess. While I don't doubt Hornby's efforts will be quite superior to mine, at the end of the day, this model has given me great pleasure (along with the W1 I did) while I suspect a Hornby one would be run one evening and left in its box ever more.... I've gone through all their steam offerings today, and this is the first year in about 30 years of buying Hornby where I can say for the first time "there is nothing for me". Even the black 5 with smoke, sound and firebox glow (and working headlamp in my case) already exists on my layout from the previous black 5 they did that I upgraded. I'm not disapointed, I'll just wait for them to add smoke, fire and sound to a class that does appeal to me, so potential for the future. And doubtless we will see other new loco classes that will please me in the future too. I think the Turbomotive was one of the last of the K's kits released in the early to mid 1980s before they were taken over by Autocom. Had a high number of L41 and I think they only went up to about L45. Some of the later ones are like hens teeth. Try and find a LNER P2, Lord Nelson or Rebuilt Merchant Navy for example. Or an unbuilt Streamlined Coronation which was often made to fit the Wrenn Duchess chassis and sold as an expensive RTR model. Jason Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold adb968008 Posted January 10, 2022 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 10, 2022 (edited) 13 minutes ago, APOLLO said: Wow hasnt this spot changed, Here is a frame taken from a video I made here last month… you can see why RHTTs werent needed daily in the 1980’s… and daily steam had already been gone a decade at this point too ! Edited January 10, 2022 by adb968008 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now