Hornby 2022 - Coaching stock

[Dunsignalling]

11 hours ago, JaymzHatstand said:

And not a single main range, non-Coronation LNER coach in the catalogue this year (other than the 4 Gresley non corridor models) in any livery. The LMS aren't much better catered for.... [snip]

 

J

 

TBH, I take that as an encouraging sign that Hornby might have better replacements for their LNER corridor stock in the pipeline for 2023.

 

Also that they might be working on a Stanier P3 CK at long last and maybe, (just maybe) an upgraded version of the 12-wheel Restaurant car that won't look out of place alongside it.....

 

John 

[JaymzHatstand]

6 hours ago, Dunsignalling said:

 

TBH, I take that as an encouraging sign that Hornby might have better replacements for their LNER corridor stock in the pipeline for 2023.

 

Also that they might be working on a Stanier P3 CK at long last and maybe, (just maybe) an upgraded version of the 12-wheel Restaurant car that won't look out of place alongside it.....

 

John 

Fingers, toes, eyes and absolutely anything else I can is crossed for that!

 

Cheers

 

J

[ThaneofFife]

Yes very hard to grasp their thinking.  I was a bit surprised by the re release of the executive RBR which i make out to the 3rd version now.......coaching stock needs more joined up thinking. 

[adb968008]

14 hours ago, G-BOAF said:

Bear in mind that the white roof BCK 21274 that Hornby modelled (now at the NRM) was probably seldom part of the white roof charter set. My understanding (possibly picked up on here) is that it was a VIP coach e.g. Royals travelling in service trains. The Charter set (white roof, swallow livery) definitely had some BFKs (not yet available RTR from anyone) and possibly some BSKs but I'm not sure that any BCK was actually part of the rake (and certainly not 21274, even if it was managed at Bounds Green in the same pool)

I dont ever recall any mk1 BSKs carrying a white roof afaik ?

Recognising also 2833 (21270) and 2834’s (21267) existence., but..

The following mk1 BCKs had a white roof, 21246, 21266, 21268 and 21274 in 1990.

21269 was moved from spare duties at Carstairs, repainted from Blue/Grey and added to it in 1992.

21246 and 21266 were in the special ICHV (VIP) pool, since 1989 (prior to this they were on the SR)

Hornby has modelled 21274.

Replica has modelled 21266.

Mk1 BCKs were quite definitely used in a full mk1 white roof rake.

There were a number of mk2 BFKs also.

Several Mk3 sleepers also had a white roof.

You can also add the NSE mk1 Guv to this mk1 white roof rake, when used on Cruise Ship trains.

 

1. 21274 was quite definitely used in the charter rake… 

All above is in platform 5 books for the period, 1988-1993, there is a colour picture of 21274 in the middle of a train, at York, in the 1992 edition. There is also a picture of it next to the NSE GUV in the pocket carriage book platform 5 at Southampton.

 

2. As for the train always ran with Mk2 BFKs, this is also untrue…

 

 

Theres a nice video opener of a class 91 taking another full mk1 white roof rake here, including the mk1 BCK.. (Granted it could be 2833/4 .. but it is nonetheless all mk1).

 

Afterwards it pulls out another mk1 Intercity rake (black roof) with white roof mk2 BFKs either end of it.

 

I assume this is 2 charters related at KX same day, 10 mins in, does the photographer look familiar to anyone ? 
 

Incidentally, totalky unrelated, but if your into an interesting service rake combos, check out 11 minutes into this, 86229 arrives, (Presumably a Manchester to Birmingham) with a scratch rake consisting of :

Blue/Grey BG, 2x Mk3 FOs Intercity, 1x Mk3 catering, 1x  Mk2 TSO intercity and 3x Mk1 intercity… certainly not an every day combination that I recall.

 

(tbh the whole video is worth watching).

A good one to watch one on youtube  is Mallard 50 railtours in 1988.. they featured heavily then, as did D200.. which is what this rake was all about, many were mk1 only.. At least one Mallard run featured a BR Observation car with white roof also.
 

Finally the mk1 BCKs themselves… all the BN ICHV/ICHX BCKs still exist.

 

21246 went on to Blue Grey Charter rake, now Bluebell.

21266 WCRC

21267 DFR (2834)

21268 Went to Flying Scotsman Services with 4472, now Peak Rail

21269 Riveria Trains

21270 WCRC (2833)

21274 NRM

 

 

Edited January 18, 2022 by adb968008

[G-BOAF]

13 hours ago, adb968008 said:

I dont ever recall any mk1 BSKs carrying a white roof afaik ?

Recognising also 2833 (21270) and 2834’s (21267) existence., but..

The following mk1 BCKs had a white roof, 21246, 21266, 21268 and 21274 in 1990.

21269 was moved from spare duties at Carstairs, repainted from Blue/Grey and added to it in 1992.

21246 and 21266 were in the special ICHV (VIP) pool, since 1989 (prior to this they were on the SR)

Hornby has modelled 21274.

Replica has modelled 21266.

Mk1 BCKs were quite definitely used in a full mk1 white roof rake.

There were a number of mk2 BFKs also.

Several Mk3 sleepers also had a white roof.

You can also add the NSE mk1 Guv to this mk1 white roof rake, when used on Cruise Ship trains.

 

1. 21274 was quite definitely used in the charter rake… 

All above is in platform 5 books for the period, 1988-1993, there is a colour picture of 21274 in the middle of a train, at York, in the 1992 edition. There is also a picture of it next to the NSE GUV in the pocket carriage book platform 5 at Southampton.

 

2. As for the train always ran with Mk2 BFKs, this is also untrue…

 

 

Theres a nice video opener of a class 91 taking another full mk1 white roof rake here, including the mk1 BCK.. (Granted it could be 2833/4 .. but it is nonetheless all mk1).

 

Afterwards it pulls out another mk1 Intercity rake (black roof) with white roof mk2 BFKs either end of it.

 

I assume this is 2 charters related at KX same day, 10 mins in, does the photographer look familiar to anyone ? 
 

Incidentally, totalky unrelated, but if your into an interesting service rake combos, check out 11 minutes into this, 86229 arrives, (Presumably a Manchester to Birmingham) with a scratch rake consisting of :

Blue/Grey BG, 2x Mk3 FOs Intercity, 1x Mk3 catering, 1x  Mk2 TSO intercity and 3x Mk1 intercity… certainly not an every day combination that I recall.

 

(tbh the whole video is worth watching).

A good one to watch one on youtube  is Mallard 50 railtours in 1988.. they featured heavily then, as did D200.. which is what this rake was all about, many were mk1 only.. At least one Mallard run featured a BR Observation car with white roof also.
 

Finally the mk1 BCKs themselves… all the BN ICHV/ICHX BCKs still exist.

 

21246 went on to Blue Grey Charter rake, now Bluebell.

21266 WCRC

21267 DFR (2834)

21268 Went to Flying Scotsman Services with 4472, now Peak Rail

21269 Riveria Trains

21270 WCRC (2833)

21274 NRM

 

 

I stand VERY corrected!

 

 

[adb968008]

5 minutes ago, G-BOAF said:

I stand VERY corrected!

 

 

No need, one hopes Hornby does more research than I.

 

I was very surprised Hornby did a BCK at all. It was hardly the most exciting mk1. I recall all the Replica versions, bar the White roof were hard to sell.

So having done it, you’d have thought they would have done the FO to, unless their saving it for something special to pull it.

[davidw]

2 minutes ago, adb968008 said:

No need, one hopes Hornby does more research than I.

 

I was very surprised Hornby did a BCK at all. It was hardly the most exciting mk1. I recall all the Replica versions, bar the White roof were hard to sell.

So having done it, you’d have thought they would have done the FO to, unless their saving it for something special to pull it.

I commented on that when the BCK was announcesd. Though didn't the BCK find its way into departmental stock. If so i can understand the reasoning. There are plenty more mk1s to tackle.

[scouse889]

On 18/01/2022 at 13:22, adb968008 said:

one hopes Hornby does more research than I.

 

I was very surprised Hornby did a BCK at all. It was hardly the most exciting mk1.

 

Q.E.D. - appears not!

Edited January 20, 2022 by scouse889

[Standards_in_OO]

On 18/01/2022 at 00:05, adb968008 said:

I dont ever recall any mk1 BSKs carrying a white roof afaik ?

Recognising also 2833 (21270) and 2834’s (21267) existence., but..

The following mk1 BCKs had a white roof, 21246, 21266, 21268 and 21274 in 1990.

21269 was moved from spare duties at Carstairs, repainted from Blue/Grey and added to it in 1992.

21246 and 21266 were in the special ICHV (VIP) pool, since 1989 (prior to this they were on the SR)

Hornby has modelled 21274.

Replica has modelled 21266.

Mk1 BCKs were quite definitely used in a full mk1 white roof rake.

There were a number of mk2 BFKs also.

Several Mk3 sleepers also had a white roof.

You can also add the NSE mk1 Guv to this mk1 white roof rake, when used on Cruise Ship trains.

 

1. 21274 was quite definitely used in the charter rake… 

All above is in platform 5 books for the period, 1988-1993, there is a colour picture of 21274 in the middle of a train, at York, in the 1992 edition. There is also a picture of it next to the NSE GUV in the pocket carriage book platform 5 at Southampton.

 

2. As for the train always ran with Mk2 BFKs, this is also untrue…

 

 

Theres a nice video opener of a class 91 taking another full mk1 white roof rake here, including the mk1 BCK.. (Granted it could be 2833/4 .. but it is nonetheless all mk1).

 

Afterwards it pulls out another mk1 Intercity rake (black roof) with white roof mk2 BFKs either end of it.

 

I assume this is 2 charters related at KX same day, 10 mins in, does the photographer look familiar to anyone ? 
 

Incidentally, totalky unrelated, but if your into an interesting service rake combos, check out 11 minutes into this, 86229 arrives, (Presumably a Manchester to Birmingham) with a scratch rake consisting of :

Blue/Grey BG, 2x Mk3 FOs Intercity, 1x Mk3 catering, 1x  Mk2 TSO intercity and 3x Mk1 intercity… certainly not an every day combination that I recall.

 

(tbh the whole video is worth watching).

A good one to watch one on youtube  is Mallard 50 railtours in 1988.. they featured heavily then, as did D200.. which is what this rake was all about, many were mk1 only.. At least one Mallard run featured a BR Observation car with white roof also.
 

Finally the mk1 BCKs themselves… all the BN ICHV/ICHX BCKs still exist.

 

21246 went on to Blue Grey Charter rake, now Bluebell.

21266 WCRC

21267 DFR (2834)

21268 Went to Flying Scotsman Services with 4472, now Peak Rail

21269 Riveria Trains

21270 WCRC (2833)

21274 NRM

 

 

I could literally spend all day watching this type of footage!!

 

I’m sure Hornby will eventually get round to making other types of Mk1s but are prioritising other things at the moment. 

[Edwardian]

A couple of points occur re the latest of the copy-cat generic 4 and 6-wheelers:  

 

- Does the GW set now have the correct black lining (it was erroneously brown on the ones I've seen)?

 

- How have Hornby reproduced a correct varnished wood window surround on the S&DJR coaches, as the tooling lacks bolections?  Whatever they've done, at least from a distance it lends a more prototypical appearance.

 

[47423]

On 13/01/2022 at 14:11, 31A said:

Two pictures I took at York on 17.11.19, having travelled from Edinburgh on the ex EMT set (note original seats in the coaches); sorry picture not clear enough to read the Power Car's number.  Appropriate for my last ride on an ECML HST!

 

 

The power car in the picture is 43316 and it was paired with EC64 and 43206 on that date on 1E15 0952 Aberdeen - Kings Cross.

It was the last day in service for set EC64.

Edited January 28, 2022 by 47423

[31A]

2 hours ago, 47423 said:

The power car in the picture is 43316 and it was paired with EC64 and 43206 on that date on 1E15 0952 Aberdeen - Kings Cross.

It was the last day in service for set EC64.

 

Thank you.  I was at Waverley in good time for the 1300 when this rolled in on the 1230 and I thought it was worth hopping on!  I wondered whether it might have been reinstated at short notice following the Azuma derailment at Neville Hill (or something) as it was unusually scruffy inside (missing tables etc)!

 

[Fredo]

Hi, do you have any intention to make a model of the LNER observation cars that were rebuilt by BR in 1959? Thanks Fred 

[47423]

On 28/01/2022 at 22:21, 31A said:

 

Thank you.  I wondered whether it might have been reinstated at short notice following the Azuma derailment at Neville Hill (or something) as it was unusually scruffy inside (missing tables etc)!

 

It had been out for the previous 4 weeks with just 2 days off . Just Scheduled withdrawal due to the plastic arriving. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by 47423

[deepfat]

soo those jubilee coaches .... is there any guidance on what sets make up a prototypical train with the beavertail observation coach at the back?

[Compound2632]

3 hours ago, deepfat said:

soo those jubilee coaches .... is there any guidance on what sets make up a prototypical train with the beavertail observation coach at the back?

 

The formation of the Coronation train (not Silver Jubilee - different coaches) was four articulated pairs: brake third + kitchen third / twin open first / open third + kitchen third / open third + brake third / observation car. So the prototypical train is made up of one each of the articulated pairs Hornby is producing, R40223-6, along with the observation car, R40227.

[Bucoops]

1 hour ago, Compound2632 said:

 

The formation of the Coronation train (not Silver Jubilee - different coaches) was four articulated pairs: brake third + kitchen third / twin open first / open third + kitchen third / open third + brake third / observation car. So the prototypical train is made up of one each of the articulated pairs Hornby is producing, R40223-6, along with the observation car, R40227.

 

And they should be neatly labelled A, B, C, D, E, F, G and H and they were coupled in that order permanently (until WW2 anyway).

[Gary H]

Rather than start a new thread for such a basic question, may I ask please, how do Hornby coaches compare with Bachmann's?

Im specifically interested in the MK1 blue & grey versions but Ive never had a Hornby coach to compare.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

Edited February 3, 2022 by Gary H

[cages_cage]

On 03/02/2022 at 10:14, Gary H said:

Rather than start a new thread for such a basic question, may I ask please, how do Hornby coaches compare with Bachmann's?

Im specifically interested in the MK1 blue & grey versions but Ive never had a Hornby coach to compare.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

• No close-coupling mechanism; Hornby Mk1s have a NEM pocket insert mounted on the bogie (where, naturally, a NEM pocket sits). There are some upsides to this: derailments have happened less with the mounted coupling, and the Hornby Mk1s have the pocket mounted at the correct height unlike Bachmann's perpetually incorrect drawbar height. Mixing a Hornby R8220 coupling and a Roco 40270 coupling to connect coaches results in a fairly good close coupling. Two Roco 40270 couplings pull the coaches too close together to get around any curve.
• Duller finish on the Hornby coaches
• Hornby Mk1s are lighter in weight than Bachmann Mk1s
• In my experience, Hornby Mk1s (and most Hornby coaches, for that matter) are harder to disassemble/reassemble without breaking anything. Hornby's construction relies on clips that are a part of the glazing, which can break off very easily. Bachmann Mk1s may require more steps to get into, but in my limited experience, they can be disassembled/reassembled without fear of breaking bits. 
• Perhaps the most important point: Hornby and Bachmann's renditions of BR Blue/Grey are radically different. Hornby's BR blue/grey is closer to a dark blue-green/white than blue/grey. A Hornby blue/grey coach would stick out like a sore thumb in a rake of Bachmann blue/grey coaches, and vice-versa. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by cages_cage

[Gary H]

4 minutes ago, cages_cage said:

• No close-coupling mechanism; Hornby Mk1s have a NEM pocket insert mounted on the bogie (where, naturally, a NEM pocket sits). There are some upsides to this: derailments have happened less with the mounted coupling, and the Hornby Mk1s have the pocket mounted at the correct height unlike Bachmann's perpetually incorrect drawbar height. Mixing a Hornby R8220 coupling and a Roco 40270 coupling to connect coaches results in a fairly good close coupling. Two Roco 40270 couplings pull the coaches too close together to get around any curve.
• Duller finish on the Hornby coaches
• Hornby Mk1s are lighter in weight than Bachmann Mk1s
• In my experience, Hornby Mk1s (and most Hornby coaches, for that matter) are harder to disassemble/reassemble without breaking anything. Hornby's construction relies on clips that are a part of the glazing, which can break off very easily. Bachmann Mk1s may require more steps to get into, but in my limited experience, they can be disassembled/reassembled without fear of breaking bits. 
• Perhaps the most important point: Hornby and Bachmann's renditions of BR Blue/Grey are radically different. Hornby's BR blue/grey is closer to a dark blue-green/white than blue/grey. A Hornby blue/grey coach would stick out like a sore thumb in a rake of Bachmann blue/grey coaches, and vice-versa. 

Thank you very much for this, very helpful. 

[Standards_in_OO]

4 hours ago, Gary H said:

Thank you very much for this, very helpful. 

The Bachmann mark 1s look slightly higher to me and it does look noticeable if there is one mixed in with Hornby’s so it’s probably best to stick with one or the other. As I have several Hornby mark 1s which I am perfectly happy with I’ll use those only although I do agree the blue grey looks a bit too dark. 

Edited February 5, 2022 by Standards_in_OO

[samfieldhouse]

I see the IOW train pack includes some IO coaches with the blue glazing - is there any mention of these being sold separately? 

[Pre Grouping fan]

On 08/02/2022 at 15:21, samfieldhouse said:

I see the IOW train pack includes some IO coaches with the blue glazing - is there any mention of these being sold separately? 

 

Not listed as being available seperately. 

[The Evil Bus Driver]

On 10/01/2022 at 12:57, Dan Griffin said:

I was Hoping test coach Mercury would be a non driving end from their VEP. It would look better than just a brake end as mercury had a cab on the end of it that looked similar to an EMU cab. 

Hermes had the driving cab and technically it still does. It's just had its windows plated over and the can end painted black. But the (slightly rough iirc) EMU type cab end is still on there. 

 

https://departmentals.com/photo/975081-10

 

Edited February 23, 2022 by The Evil Bus Driver

[shunny]

On 03/02/2022 at 16:14, Gary H said:

Rather than start a new thread for such a basic question, may I ask please, how do Hornby coaches compare with Bachmann's?

Im specifically interested in the MK1 blue & grey versions but Ive never had a Hornby coach to compare.

Thanks for any feedback.

 

The Bachmann Mk1 also has separate pipe work on the ends while Hornby's is moulded due to the tooling being dual used for railroad versions as well.